Biden’s “ghost gun” ruling announced today

[steveTA84]

Thank a Biden voter for this. According to part of it, ALL firearms that have two components to the receiver (slide/frame, upper/lower) need to have both serialized.....

2A dems, is time to start holding your nose and vote Republican for the time being. Sorry, but you can’t claim to be pro-2A and vote people like Biden in, full well

knowing his intentions. No excuses. You’re either pro-2A or a “hobbyist”

 

[spanishjames]

On 4/11/2022 at 8:15 AM, steveTA84 said:

Thank a Biden voter for this. According to part of it, ALL firearms that have two components to the receiver (slide/frame, upper/lower) need to have both serialized.....

2A dems, is time to start holding your nose and vote Republican for the time being. Sorry, but you can’t claim to be pro-2A and vote people like Biden in, full well

knowing his intentions. No excuses. You’re either pro-2A or a “hobbyist”

 

Good luck convincing the other side. "Take our guns, and protect us from mean tweets"

[Jeffrey]

The big shame on dems is that they only go after law abiding concerning the 2A.  With the crime problem the country has right now, and the polling against POTUS being lower than pond scum, he could have done the entire country a favor and went after those actually committing crimes.  I know it goes against the base but, I think even the base has had more than enough based on every poll out there.

[solareclipse2]

This is dumb. 

[EdDinIL]

Assuming the interpretation is as bad as it sounds, the split receiver ruling is going to affect a LOT of business.  If someone wants to buy a separate upper, either stripped or complete, will you have to go through an FFL now?

[solareclipse2]

On 4/11/2022 at 3:32 PM, EdDinIL said:

Assuming the interpretation is as bad as it sounds, the split receiver ruling is going to affect a LOT of business.  If someone wants to buy a separate upper, either stripped or complete, will you have to go through an FFL now?

 

 Given they're trying to get us to believe an upper should be considered the firearm as well what would the alternative be?

[cnwfan3]

How is this even going to work?  The are thousands if not millions of guns already out there that don't have serial numbers on the slide/upper.  At least half of what I have in my safe doesn't.  Are they going to require people to go out and get those slides/uppers serialized?  I can't see how they could even enforce that.  I could see a ton of lawsuits on this.  Another stupid law that will do nothing to stop crime and only punish law abiding citizens.

[solareclipse2]

On 4/11/2022 at 3:43 PM, cnwfan3 said:

How is this even going to work?  The are thousands if not millions of guns already out there that don't have serial numbers on the slide/upper.  At least half of what I have in my safe doesn't.  Are they going to require people to go out and get those slides/uppers serialized?  I can't see how they could even enforce that.  I could see a ton of lawsuits on this.  Another stupid law that will do nothing to stop crime and only punish law abiding citizens.

 

What's in our safes is one issue, what's already on the shelves at gun stores is another. Are manufacturers going to take back their inventory so they can serials slides and uppers? 

[2A4Cook]

On 4/11/2022 at 3:49 PM, solareclipse2 said:

 

What's in our safes is one issue, what's already on the shelves at gun stores is another. Are manufacturers going to take back their inventory so they can serials slides and uppers? 

What about what you carry???  Off the top of my head, I can think of only CZ as companies that serialize both the frame and the slide on pistols.  This is ridiculous.  It makes instant felons out of tens of millions of handgun owners -- police departments included!  I can't see how it can stand judicial scrutiny just based on that alone, not even taking into consideration that the AFT has no authority to make law.

[byxlaw]

Sounds like they are volunteering FFLs to serialize current stock. Regardless, it's another infringement on 2A. Or, am I mixing in new IL garbage?..

[MrTriple]

I suspect this will fail for the same reason the eviction moratorium and employee vaccine mandates failed: They constitute an attempt by the executive to extra-legally legislate in a manner solely and exclusively limited to Congress, Second Amendment aside.

 

Some will retort, "Well, they did it with bumpstocks so they can do it here, too."

 

Except that bumpstocks are technically workarounds to an existing prohibition on unregistered machine guns (or so it could be argued). It's a bit more complicated than that, but I don't want to bore anyone with a long-winded analysis.

 

But with receivers, these new rules constitute a wholesale rewording of federal law, one that is at odds with the very clear definition of a "receiver" under the GCA. Key difference.

 

This is precisely why the FBI, amongst other agencies, have been very leery of prosecuting illegal possession of AR lower receivers since some judges have, correctly, pointed out that such items do not meet the strict legal definition of a receiver under the law. The FBI even dropped one case because it was clear the judge was going to rule against them and they wanted to avoid setting a negative precedent.

 

To me, this nothing more than an attempt to be seen as "doing something" regardless of whether such an action is truly advisable, just as it was with the vaccine mandate (since Biden wanted to be seen as "doing something" on COVID, regardless of whether it would stand). The gun control movement genuinely believed (as did many gun owners, both incorrectly) that their entire laundry list would've been enacted by now. They failed to understand, as the Progressives still do, that they did not have the necessary support in the Senate. So now they're scratching their heads trying to find a way to get something enacted while failing to ask whether such an action will actually survive court scrutiny. They genuinely don't know what they're doing here, in spite of the frequent claims that, "They know exactly what they're doing!" If that were true, they might try banning unserialized lower receivers instead, although that's legally dubious at best. Attempting a total re-write of federal law, particularly one so clear-cut as the GCA, is a fool's errand and evidence that they haven't really thought this one through.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the FPC files in the same circuit where the moratorium and vaccine mandate cases were filed (The Sixth Circuit?). It also wouldn't surprise me if the judges are the same.

 

Also, just to get it out there: This is no different than when they complained about handgun violence in the 1980's or "assault weapons" in the '90's or even their never-ending whining about concealed carry. It's their latest shiny object and they'll just move onto something else when the whole thing falls apart.

[2A4Cook]

What are they supposed to do, blame their base for committing crimes with illegal and/or illegally possessed guns and their pro-criminal policies???

[mauserme]

I think we should wait to see and analyze the language in the rules before committing to the "both halves must be serialized" idea.  It's possible that's the intent, but the statement relating to split receivers:

 

Some courts have recently interpreted decades-old regulatory text in a way that, if broadly applied, could mean that as many as 90 percent of firearms in the United States today would not have a frame or receiver subject to federal regulation. The final rule updates the regulatory definitions of “frame” and “receiver” to ensure that firearms using split or multi-part receivers continue to be covered by our common-sense gun laws.

 

seems to be in relation to some court cases that found neither the upper nor lower AR receiver alone qualifies as a firearm subject to ATF regulation.

 

I'm not saying one reading is better than another right now, only that reading that much into the Whitehouse statement may be premature.

 

 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

I don't see how this would even apply to P320 guns with the serialized modular chassis. Will P320 series grips also need a serial number now?  Looks like the slides will.      

[Scotty425]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:07 PM, 2A4Cook said:

I can think of only CZ as companies that serialize both the frame and the slide on pistols.  

Glocks are serialized on the frame, slide, and barrel.

[bosshogg]

AR's and similar firearms are grandfathered in, this really wont change much, no serial on your upper, no serial on your slide. mainly attacking 80 percenters. likely the end of Polymer80.

[Bird76Mojo]

This is also the REAL beginning of the government trying to demonize 3D printers. They want to regulate them as well. Just wait and see..

They already tried to regulate the 3D printer files but failed.

[Hap]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:07 PM, 2A4Cook said:

What about what you carry???  Off the top of my head, I can think of only CZ as companies that serialize both the frame and the slide on pistols.  This is ridiculous.  It makes instant felons out of tens of millions of handgun owners -- police departments included!  I can't see how it can stand judicial scrutiny just based on that alone, not even taking into consideration that the ATG has no authority to make law.

HK serializes the frame, slide, and barrel.

[2A4Cook]

On 4/12/2022 at 7:13 AM, Hap said:

HK serializes the frame, slide, and barrel.

Pretty evident that I'm not big on Tupperware, lol.  Point still stands, though.  What do you do with the pistols of the vast majority of makers, who do not?  More importantly, what do you do with their owners an their rights?  

 

These Democrats have attacked our rights under the 1st, 2nd and other amendments to the Bill of Rights on a relentless and rabid basis.  If I hear them scream about "threats" to "our democracy" one more time, I swear I'll put my head through a wall.  THEY are the only real threat to American "Democracy."  They prove it every single day.  Even their congressional leaders publicly pressure Brandon to enact new law via fiat because they can't get their entire radical wish list through Congress!

[JTHunter]

On 4/12/2022 at 7:45 AM, 2A4Cook said:

If I hear them scream about "threats" to "our democracy" one more time, I swear I'll put my head through a wall.  THEY are the only real threat to American "Democracy."

 

That is probably because they forget (likely by choice) that our political system is NOT a "democracy".  Ours is a "representative republic".

[Flynn]

It's going to be interesting, what exactly defines this new upper receiver?  There is always going to have to be a line between a non-gun part and the registered component so this is bound to spark an entire new "80%" market.

 

What happens when you buy a firearm with mis-matched serials is that now two guns even though anyone that looks at it would commonly identify it as a single firearm?

 

What happens to existing guns (or new manufactured) like my Walthers where the slide, frame and barrel share a single serial, is that now 1, 2 or 3 pistols?  And if it's more that one firearm, how is that sold?  Is it sold as 1, 2, or 3 fireams?  And if sold as individual parts to different people, then 1, 2 or 3 people would own a gun with a shared serial?  Oh the tangled mess we weave.

 

Ghostgunner has already split the AR lower into two components, if a manufacture used their new 2 piece platform what is the registered part?

 

The ATF is chasing the ghost, demanding that two components of a single firearm be deemed their own individual firearms when neither will work solo without the other is an oxymoron, but not surprising based on the can of worms the ATF has opened in the past declaring single components of a firearm as a new firearm.

 

Truth be told this is just another backroom step towards making a registry, and rules like this make more and more to start making my own as the cost of tabletop machinery drops to where it's literally affordable vs dealing with and paying FFL transfer fees, just sayin'