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Will the "Red wave" sweep over IL in November, and will it be enough to kill the FOID card?


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On 4/26/2022 at 11:10 AM, 2A4Cook said:

My middle class suburban town has NOTHING in common with that area and, in fact, we don't want to pay taxes to the state to be used in Chicago areas that pay very little by comparison. 

 

If you live in one of the five collar counties, you are probably getting the short shrift, but it isn't going to Chicago/Cook. Your state tax dollars, and some of those dollars from Chicago/Cook, are likely going downstate...

 

If you are outside of the five collar counties, you likely benefit from state taxes paid in Cook and the five collar counties.

 

Pantagraph article - August 21, 2021

Quote

Rather than receiving the lion’s share of state tax revenue, Cook County and the five collar counties contribute more to the state than the state spends in those counties in return, based on data from the bipartisan Commission on Forecasting and Government Accountability. In 2016, Cook County generated $12.43 billion; suburban counties, $8.5 billion; and downstate, $8.2 billion. In return, the state spent in Cook County, $12.18 billion; suburban counties, $5.1 billion; and downstate, $13.9 billion. 

 

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Regrettably for those who advocate separating from the northeast corner of the state in some way, Cook and the collar counties are the economic engine of Illinois.

 

https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html

 

The prospect of a separate state of Southern Illinois would entail considerable fiscal distress, without a clear path forward to solvent operational status.

 

 

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On 4/27/2022 at 9:23 PM, FLMOPE said:

No.

 

It isn't who votes.

 

It is who counts the votes.

 

Someone earlier said best. The courts will kill the FOID long before a Republican majority does.

 

Don't hold your breath for either.

 

Just like CCW. The emeriti of the IRP were all opposed to CCW even before '95-96 when they might have been able to slip it by.  In the years between Heller and the filing of Moore  I repeatedly stated that the only way we'd see CCW here was through the courts. 

 

Sadly, the same is probable for the FOID, especially when the state has the money and corruption influence to stall out completely legitimate exemplar cases like Horsley until the plaintiff loses standing.

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Since this is apparently now about Illinois and Chicago separating... Diamonds that are produced at the expense of ruining lives are considered blood diamonds and people avoid them to not fund criminals and death.  Why would citizens want to be funding the suffering and oppression that Chicago government offers?

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On 4/28/2022 at 9:06 AM, soundguy said:

 

If you live in one of the five collar counties, you are probably getting the short shrift, but it isn't going to Chicago/Cook. Your state tax dollars, and some of those dollars from Chicago/Cook, are likely going downstate...

 

If you are outside of the five collar counties, you likely benefit from state taxes paid in Cook and the five collar counties.

 

Pantagraph article - August 21, 2021

 

 

All those spending figures are hyperinflated.    The huge amount of money funneled to cronies does not benefit downstate or anyone except the cronies.

 

The state gets the credit for spending that money though that article.     You give the state credit for "spending that money"

 

You cannot assume those figures represent reality, or make a negative judgment against the red part of the state.   This is Illannoy, remember.  

 

 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 4/29/2022 at 5:27 PM, ElMono said:

Okay, but then downstate would have to raise their taxes to pay for the budget shortfall due to the loss of revenue from Chicago and the suburbs.  I guess downstate could always cut farm subsidies to offset the revenue loss, but I doubt that would be a popular move.

 

Or have less services, which is probably OK by them.

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On 4/29/2022 at 12:30 PM, ElMono said:

Source:  "Trust me"

That's the whole point though.  Downstate IL isn't funding Chicago in any way.  Money moves FROM Chicago downstate, not the other way around.

Oppression does too! Remove the oppression and see how downstate does….

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On 4/29/2022 at 10:30 AM, ElMono said:

Source:  "Trust me"

 

 

I see, so you think that $0.00 of IL taxes have been funneled to cronies.

 

Can you please check your Interdimensional settings on your Slider device?  You're in the wrong dimension.    In this dimension, Illinois is run by corruptocrats who funnel huge amounts of money to cronies. 

 

 

Quote

That's the whole point though.  Downstate IL isn't funding Chicago in any way.  Money moves FROM Chicago downstate, not the other way around.

 

No, the whole point is that it doesn't matter if it is Chicago or downstate - the spending figures are wrong due to the huge amount of cronyocracy in IL.    Accounting for the cronyocracy, the benefits don't go to either. 

 

In other words BOTH Chicago and downstate are screwed over by the cronyocracy. 

 

 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 4/30/2022 at 11:33 AM, ElMono said:

So my last reply was snark and really wasn't helpful.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

Read up on that and you'll understand why your brain has to reject the information in the report.

 

It's interesting that those in favor of separating Chicago and or Cook County from the rest of the state speak only of Chicago/Cook, while those arguing against separation speak in terms of the five collar counties' economics which, of course, excludes Chicago and Cook County.  Sort of a straw man in a way.

 

Just an observation.

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On 4/30/2022 at 11:53 AM, mauserme said:

 

It's interesting that those in favor of separating Chicago and or Cook County from the rest of the state speak only of Chicago/Cook, while those arguing against separation speak in terms of the five collar counties' economics which, of course, excludes Chicago and Cook County.  Sort of a straw man in a way.

 

Just an observation.

10 or 15 years ago, I wished for Crook County to be separated.  Now, the lefties have taken Kane, Will and pretty much DuPage.  It would be exchanging the oppression of Crook for the oppression of the collar counties.  Face it, we is forked.

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:34 AM, ElMono said:

How does Illinois corruption invalidate the report?  Do you have some evidence that suggests the report is wrong or do you just not like the conclusion?

 

Ah.  So now you're saying corruption has nothing to do with how the state spends money.   As if zero spending from the IL state government was funneled to cronies.      No such thing as politically connected state contractors who successfully seem to be winning bids over other competitors for some reason.   No such thing as quid pro quo. 

 

Should we start singing hymns now about how saintly the State of Illinois is?      

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On 5/4/2022 at 6:56 AM, ElMono said:

What percentage of that corrupt money was spent in Chicago, the collar counties and downstate?  A rough number will be fine. Since you've discounted the report as being flatly wrong you should have your own data to back up your position. 

 

Any money funneled to cronies - should not count toward any spending figures toward "Chicago, collar counties and downstate" - that's my point.    Any nonzero percentage calls sufficient reasonable doubt on any spending figures printed. 

You disagree, and claim there is no money funneled to cronies, and at the same time claim the spending figures cannot be questioned.  

 

I personally believe that so much money is funneled to cronies, that your point about red vs blue counties pulling their weight is moot - and that the cronyage is the issue. 

 

If Illinois had no cronyage or an insignificant percentage of cronyage, it would never be teetering on the verge of bankruptcy as it is now. 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 5/4/2022 at 10:03 AM, ElMono said:

The problem is I'm arguing a point based on a published report and you're arguing based on your personal feelings.  You just know in your heart that the report is wrong but have nothing to back that that up but feelings. 

 

I argue based on facts, not feelings. 

 

It is a fact that the state of Illinois is horrifically corrupt and has six tons of cronyage in its spending.

 

You deny this. 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 5/4/2022 at 12:03 PM, ElMono said:

The problem is I'm arguing a point based on a published report and you're arguing based on your personal feelings.  You just know in your heart that the report is wrong but have nothing to back that that up but feelings. 

Or, perhaps, you are arguing a point by making the claim that the economy of an oppressed and suppressed people will remain the same when that oppression and suppression is lifted.
Maybe the correct question is, do you believe past performance under oppression is indicative of future performance under freedom?

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On 5/4/2022 at 12:23 PM, ElMono said:

I don't deny that Illinois has corruption so we can dispense with that strawman right now.

 

 

But you deny that the corruption has any impact on the spending figures.   You believe the spending figures in the article are 100% correct as to amount and distribution, and that 100% of the money goes directly to benefit the people in those three areas.

 

I, on the other hand, know that Illinois politicians lie and enrich cronies through spending.      So I question the validity of the numbers due to the fact that politicians lie.   I also question your conclusion that blue part of the state subsidizes the red part of the state.   I maintain we can't judge that. 

 

So let's pretend the numbers are accurate (only as a gross amount) for a minute, just for grins and giggles.    Let's pretend that Illinois politicians actually did the impossible and told the truth about the numbers on a gross amount basis.

 

Subtract from "Chicago" "downstate" "collar counties" all the state level cronyism and what would be the real pattern?  

Oh.

 

We can't analyze that because they won't openly report how much of that spending was funneled to cronies - and thus Chicago, downstate and collar counties really didn't benefit from any of that particular cronyage spending - only cronies benefitted.

So, since we cannot get the amount of state level cronyage involved in any of that spending after it leaves the state's hands - we cannot make any conclusions based on the spending amounts.

But wait.   I just got started.

A lot of this spending is given to county, township and local governments - who also have their own cronyage on top of this.   Of course, the people don't benefit from this one iota.

So from those net state numbers we have to subtract all the county, township and local government cronyage. 

Of course, they won't publicly disclose how much that is.

 

So, we cannot make any conclusions based on the spending amounts.

 

This has nothing to do with emotions.  It has everything to do with doubting what we are told by politicians at all levels. 

 

 

Edited by BobPistol
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