Concern about registering semi-auto rifles

[noreaster]

Here’s a bit of history that includes background of Chicago gun registration, and the attempt to have statewide gun registration. 
 

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/03/24/chicago-gun-laws-strict-history-illinois

 

it does not say why gun registration was discontinued in Chicago  

[MagSlap]

Edited May 24, 2023 at 11:37 AM by MagSlap

[lilguy]

Chicago has come a long way in 50 plus years.

 

There was a time when they would kick in the door,

gun down everyone in the room and announce don’t anyone move this is a raid.

 

Now they are more tolerant. They blame and want to control legal gun owners.

 

 

 

“ In the predawn hours of December 4, 1969, Chicago Police stormed into the apartment of BPP State Chairman Fred Hampton at 2337 West Monroe Street, killing both Mark Clark (age 22^[12]) and Fred Hampton (age 21^[12]), and causing serious bodily harm to Verlina Brewer, Ronald "Doc" Satchel, Blair Anderson, and Brenda Harris.

Hampton and Deborah Johnson, who was eight-and-a-half months pregnant with their child, were sleeping in the south bedroom. Satchel, Anderson, and Brewer were asleep in the north bedroom. Harris and Louis Truelock were sleeping on a bed by the south wall of the living room, and Harold Bell slept on a mattress on the floor in the middle of the room. Clark, sitting in the front room of the apartment with a shotgun in his lap, was on security duty.^[13]

The first shot hit Clark in the heart. He died instantly, and his gun went off as he fell, according to Harris, who watched from the bed in the corner.^[13]

The single round was later determined to be caused by a reflexive death convulsion after the raiding team shot him. This was the only shot the Panthers fired.^[14][15] A federal grand jury determined that the police fired between 82 and 99 shots, including into bedrooms, while most of the occupants lay sleeping.”^[13]

 

 

[2A4Cook]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:22 AM, lilguy said:

Chicago has come a long way in 50 plus years.

 

There was a time when they would kick in the door,

gun down everyone in the room and announce don’t anyone move this is a raid.

 

Now they are more tolerant. They blame and want to control legal gun owners.

 

 

 

“ In the predawn hours of December 4, 1969, Chicago Police stormed into the apartment of BPP State Chairman Fred Hampton at 2337 West Monroe Street, killing both Mark Clark (age 22^[12]) and Fred Hampton (age 21^[12]), and causing serious bodily harm to Verlina Brewer, Ronald "Doc" Satchel, Blair Anderson, and Brenda Harris.

Hampton and Deborah Johnson, who was eight-and-a-half months pregnant with their child, were sleeping in the south bedroom. Satchel, Anderson, and Brewer were asleep in the north bedroom. Harris and Louis Truelock were sleeping on a bed by the south wall of the living room, and Harold Bell slept on a mattress on the floor in the middle of the room. Clark, sitting in the front room of the apartment with a shotgun in his lap, was on security duty.^[13]

The first shot hit Clark in the heart. He died instantly, and his gun went off as he fell, according to Harris, who watched from the bed in the corner.^[13]

The single round was later determined to be caused by a reflexive death convulsion after the raiding team shot him. This was the only shot the Panthers fired.^[14][15] A federal grand jury determined that the police fired between 82 and 99 shots, including into bedrooms, while most of the occupants lay sleeping.”^[13]

 

 

Who was mayor at the time?  And which party was he?  Oh, yeah.  How quickly they forget.

[ealcala31]

On 5/21/2023 at 6:43 PM, Yas said:

How can a cook county resident register an evil black rifle without incriminating themselves due to the existing cook county ban? 

Because of home-rule laws, I am not interested at all about Cook County registration. This is a question Chicago residents should ask of themselves. How can I register an AR15 or AK(M) Rifle that has always been illegal to own in Chicago for IL State Compliance 🤔 

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:01 AM, ealcala31 said:

Because of home-rule laws, I am not interested at all about Cook County registration. This is a question Chicago residents should ask of themselves. How can I register an AR15 or AK(M) Rifle that has always been illegal to own in Chicago for IL State Compliance 🤔 

I thought it was not illegal to own but to have possession of in Chicago.  

[soundguy]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:24 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

I thought it was not illegal to own but to have possession of in Chicago.  

You are correct. 
 

Cheers,

Tim

[mauserme]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:24 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

I thought it was not illegal to own but to have possession of in Chicago.  

 

That same concept applies to the state ban.  They can't make it illegal to posses things somewhere else so if, for example, you own property in another state or your brother lives in Hammond or there's a range in Wisconsin where you can store them, relocate them and you're good to go.

 

Just like they did in Chicago back in the day.

 

 

 

 

[DoYouFeelLucky]

We have close to 100 stored for IL residents, and picking up more this weekend.  That will max out any spare storage we had.  Hopefully for the people of IL this gets resolved quickly.  It's always disheartening to disarm myself prior to crossing the river bridge.

[ealcala31]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:24 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

I thought it was not illegal to own but to have possession of in Chicago.  

You are 100% correct. You can own, just not posses in Chicago. I should have worded my statement better, how will you register the AR15 rifle(s) you own, but not posses in Chicago? Do you think the state registration form is going to have a place to mark where you posses that AR15 rifle(s)? If there's no place to mark where you posses your AR15 rifle(s), obviously outside of Chicago city limits, would you be incriminating yourself to owning one within the city limits of Chicago just for registering it, against Chicago's municipal code. In Thomas Maag's suit, he brought up 5th Amendment concerns with registering your/our weapons. Could CPD use your registration form to execute a search warrant against you for admitting on an affidavit that you own an AR15 rifle(s) and your address happens to be in Chicago? We are getting an endorsement put on our FOID/CCL that says we own an assault weapon and the address that's listed on our FOID/CCL happens to be in Chicago. In my 38+ years living in Chicago, I saw and read of search warrants conducted by CPD where they had less info on the potential criminal. I am very interested to see how that plays out across IL, not just Chicago. Our FOID/CCL will eventually give police an indicator of the type of weapons we have, just by mere possession of the FOID/CCL. 

[GunCollector]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:57 PM, ealcala31 said:

We are getting an endorsement put on our FOID/CCL that says we own an assault weapon and the address that's listed on our FOID/CCL happens to be in Chicago

Is this true, “we are getting this” or “we could/may get this.

[ealcala31]

On 5/25/2023 at 11:42 PM, GunCollector said:

Is this true, “we are getting this” or “we could/may get this.

ISP uses this "endorsement" term. Where is it going to be? On the FOID or in their database when they look up our FOID # to make sure its still active. Will all the firearms be in their database to cross reference with what we are in possession of during the traffic stop? I can't wait to see how the implementation goes beginning next year.

[Euler]

On 5/26/2023 at 12:51 AM, ealcala31 said:

ISP uses this "endorsement" term. Where is it going to be? On the FOID or in their database when they look up our FOID # to make sure its still active. Will all the firearms be in their database to cross reference with what we are in possession of during the traffic stop? I can't wait to see how the implementation goes beginning next year.

 

It starts October (unless enjoined), not next year. January 1 is when not-registration is supposed to be complete (for those who comply).

[Jeffrey]

On 5/25/2023 at 11:42 PM, GunCollector said:

Is this true, “we are getting this” or “we could/may get this.

Will the logo be a star by any chance?

[Skolnick]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:18 AM, Illinois Sucks said:

How do they justify "registration"?  How does registering a rifle make Illinois any safer?  Is there a link to a study that shows how this is beneficial to anyone?

 

Back in the 60s, I saw an overhead poster on a CTA bus that show one child holding a smoking gun and another child lying on the ground. The caption said something like "save lives register your guns."

 

The sign was defaced with the words "how does registering save lives?"

 

 

On 5/21/2023 at 9:09 PM, Dx54r said:

What if ALL of my firearms were legally purchased a few weeks ago during "freedom week"?

According to the ISP, weapons purchased in that week are not allowed to be registered , yet are not legal to own by the registration date.

Not registering my firearms will make me a felon.

Registering them will either be impossible, or will go against my right not to self-incriminate myself.

 

Whatever shall I do?

 

Lookup Haynes v United States.

[ealcala31]

On 5/26/2023 at 12:38 AM, Euler said:

 

It starts October (unless enjoined), not next year. January 1 is when not-registration is supposed to be complete (for those who comply).

Agreed, but enforcement won't begin until Jan. 1, 2024, for those who comply or not comply. I am very skeptical that 2A will get a major court decision halting PICA in its entirety, or mostly, before registration is complete and ready to be enforced.

[ealcala31]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:09 PM, Dx54r said:

What if ALL of my firearms were legally purchased a few weeks ago during "freedom week"?

According to the ISP, weapons purchased in that week are not allowed to be registered , yet are not legal to own by the registration date.

Not registering my firearms will make me a felon.

Registering them will either be impossible, or will go against my right not to self-incriminate myself.

 

Whatever shall I do?

Unfortunately you will have to adopt the Chicago gun owning way of life, CATCH ME!

[lilguy]

The whole system is infuriating but the secondary issues that trouble me the most is the vagueness of some definitions, which is obviously done on purpose and allowing the ISP to regulate at will with no further legislative input.

This is what one of  the battle with the ATF is tackling now. Will a directive telling them they can’t regulate out of thin air have any effect on states?

They have also taken out 50 caliber hand guns the Ruger #1 and double rifles in 500 nitro. I’ve read some think this is nongun people legislating things they don’t understand. I think

they understand perfectly what they’re doing. 

[lilguy]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:51 PM, mauserme said:

 

That same concept applies to the state ban.  They can't make it illegal to posses things somewhere else so if, for example, you own property in another state or your brother lives in Hammond or there's a range in Wisconsin where you can store them, relocate them and you're good to go.

 

Just like they did in Chicago back in the day.

 

 

 

 

I would like to add to this that having them stored in a relatives home could be considered an illegal transfer if push come to shove. The best way to prevent that is to put them in a safe that only you have access to. You are the owner and still the only one who can technically possess them.

 

Hey bro, can you keep this in your closet till this all blows over, although quite common i'm sure. is not the best legal advice. 

 

[mauserme]

On 5/28/2023 at 7:28 AM, lilguy said:

I would like to add to this that having them stored in a relatives home could be considered an illegal transfer if push come to shove. The best way to prevent that is to put them in a safe that only you have access to. You are the owner and still the only one who can technically possess them.

 

Hey bro, can you keep this in your closet till this all blows over, although quite common i'm sure. is not the best legal advice. 

 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong.  I'm not offering legal advice.  I'm not qualified to do that.  From the nature of your posts I'm sure you aren't, either.

 

All I'm saying is that, during Chicago's ban and registration schemes, Chicago residents had some sort of method to deal with them that didn't seem as complicated as all that.  Having never lived there I don't claim to know the details, and they never talked about it much.  All I know is it appeared to work for them.

 

 

[lilguy]

We don’t agree often, and neither of us are the brilliant lawyers Im told follow this site. That being said a lot loose talk about whats going on will get the more trusting here in trouble.

I am paying my lawyer for advice, you all should talk to yours. 

I talked one of my sons friends out of buying during “freedom week” because I was told its too fluid legally to chance it. Gun shops got the go from their lawyers to sell but nobody got it at our end. Big assumption on many people part.Their are many folks out there that could be in legal jeopardy if we fail and the the ISP orders the records. 

The reason I question everything is because nobody here, internet vapor, is going save me and mine if the shat finally hits the fan.

[mauserme]

On 5/28/2023 at 3:37 PM, lilguy said:

We don’t agree often, and neither of us are the brilliant lawyers Im told follow this site. That being said a lot loose talk about whats going on will get the more trusting here in trouble.

I am paying my lawyer for advice, you all should talk to yours. 

I talked one of my sons friends out of buying during “freedom week” because I was told its too fluid legally to chance it. Gun shops got the go from their lawyers to sell but nobody got it at our end. Big assumption on many people part.Their are many folks out there that could be in legal jeopardy if we fail and the the ISP orders the records. 

The reason I question everything is because nobody here, internet vapor, is going save me and mine if the shat finally hits the fan.

 

As I understand it the folks who made purchases during freedom week were necessarily part of one of the Tom Devore lawsuits, Mr. Devore being the downstate attorney who got the injunctions against the ban.

 

Why would you assume he did not communicate with his clients?

 

 

 

 

[yurimodin]

Don't worry, SCOTUS will get around to fixing this in another 14 years like Bruen did for Heller. The good news is that ruling will also just get ignored with ZERO CONSEQUENCES by whatever oath breakers are ruling us at that time.

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 5/28/2023 at 4:48 PM, yurimodin said:

Don't worry, SCOTUS will get around to fixing this in another 14 years like Bruen did for Heller. The good news is that ruling will also just get ignored with ZERO CONSEQUENCES by whatever oath breakers are ruling us at that time.

 

Illinois has already stated they are going to ignore the injunction period of freedom week and pretend it didn't happen.  I assume the DeVore cases will follow. One will have to file the same affidavit claiming the weapons were owned prior to the signing of PICA. 

 

A Democrat Senator already stated that SCOTUS is illegitimate and if the high court overturns the gun bans there will be a popular revolt.   He didn't say that by accident. 

 

[Upholder]

On 5/28/2023 at 7:28 PM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

Illinois has already stated they are going to ignore the injunction period of freedom week and pretend it didn't happen.  I assume the DeVore cases will follow. One will have to file the same affidavit claiming the weapons were owned prior to the signing of PICA. 

 

It's not so much that they are ignoring the injunction.  They are stating that the injunction is irrelevant because the law states that you had to have owned the weapons before the date it became law for them to be able to be registered and therefore kept after Jan 1, 2024... and people who bought items during the injunction did not possess them before the date it became law.

[lilguy]

On 5/28/2023 at 4:48 PM, yurimodin said:

Don't worry, SCOTUS will get around to fixing this in another 14 years like Bruen did for Heller. The good news is that ruling will also just get ignored with ZERO CONSEQUENCES by whatever oath breakers are ruling us at that time.

Would this surprise anyone? 

[lilguy]

On 5/28/2023 at 4:36 PM, mauserme said:

 

As I understand it the folks who made purchases during freedom week were necessarily part of one of the Tom Devore lawsuits, Mr. Devore being the downstate attorney who got the injunctions against the ban.

 

Why would you assume he did not communicate with his clients?

 

 

 

 

 

This was still posted at a LGS last week. They have the cover of a different TRO possibly , they can sell guns to anyone who has a FOID and passes a background check. Whether you can own it is not their responsibility to know. There are multiple cases and not all have been stayed on appeal, yet. These are dangerous times for the uninformed, be careful. I talked to a home based FFL who is still moving merchandise under a TRO. All these guys can still get distributors to sell them guns and they can buy guns from you or broker them for you. That’s dangerous for the person dealing with them IF the ISP goes crazy on us. We are on the same side, there is no argument about the basics. I just know that anyone who unintentionally gets caught up in this legal web is gonna be hung out to dry and they will be used as examples to the rest of us. Do what you feel is right, but understand the consequences. None of the cheerleaders on our many guns sites are going to be running to help you beat a UUW charge.

 

Edited May 29, 2023 at 03:22 AM by lilguy

[mauserme]

On 5/28/2023 at 9:53 PM, lilguy said:

 

This was still posted at a LGS last week. They have the cover of a different TRO possibly , they can sell guns to anyone who has a FOID and passes a background check. Whether you can own it is not their responsibility to know. There are multiple cases and not all have been stayed on appeal, yet. These are dangerous times for the uninformed, be careful. I talked to a home based FFL who is still moving merchandise under a TRO. All these guys can still get distributors to sell them guns and they can buy guns from you or broker them for you. That’s dangerous for the person dealing with them IF the ISP goes crazy on us. We are on the same side, there is no argument about the basics. I just know that anyone who unintentionally gets caught up in this legal web is gonna be hung out to dry and they will be used as examples to the rest of us. Do what you feel is right, but understand the consequences. None of the cheerleaders on our many guns sites are going to be running to help you beat a UUW charge.

 

 

That's interesting because two months ago you started a topic alleging the same thing and showing the same sign:

 

 

 

In response to a question I posted you said, "Obviously they are following the narrative generated by their lawyers.".

 

 

 

One would think that after all these months of alleged violations, folks would be going to jail, guns would be confiscated, licenses would be revoked.

 

Or could it be that you're assuming too much about that gun store and about the sign they posted?

 

Could it be that they were selling to the general public only during the period the TRO was active?

 

Could it be that current sales are being made to persons exempted from the act?

 

Could it be that the lack of legal action against them is a strong indication that laws are not being broken?

 

Could it be that the disclaimer posted in their sign is common, of the same nature posted on the Able's Ammo, Palmetto State Armory and Target Sports USA post on their web sites?

 

 

Sewing the seeds of fear and doubt, especially uncertainty based on incomplete information and potentially inaccurate assumptions, is to do the work of the anti's.