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#1 lilguy

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 09:42 AM

Went to do a transfer this week. Have not bought a new gun in a while and was handed the new state form that ties the gun to the purchaser. I asked if this is so the state can take them when they decide to with less research. The answer was yes.
With all the plastic I have in my wallet that allows me to use a fundamental right I suppose this registration scheme really should not be a surprise. What was the stated reason for this requirement?

Edited by lilguy, 01 December 2019 - 09:43 AM.


#2 steveTA84

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:02 AM

That form is legit backdoor registration. I always write “Hilary Clinton fixer” under occupation

#3 Bo69

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:10 AM

In Englewood and little village nothing is required you can buy all Obama's fast & furious military grade weapons without FOID,GUN TAXES,BACK GROUND CHECKS OR NEW ANY FORMS.

#4 Bo69

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:11 AM

I can't wait to leave Illinois.

#5 Thiokol

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:14 AM

I bought a gun last week and didn't have to fill out a form like that. What form is it and when did dealers start having buyers fill it out?

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#6 soundguy

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:47 AM

 

Went to do a transfer this week. Have not bought a new gun in a while and was handed the new state form that ties the gun to the purchaser. I asked if this is so the state can take them when they decide to with less research. The answer was yes.

 

 

 

I bought a gun last week and didn't have to fill out a form like that. What form is it and when did dealers start having buyers fill it out?

 

And who did you ask?

 

A "new form" was discussed here starting in August 2019 and apparently once before.


Edited by soundguy, 01 December 2019 - 10:54 AM.

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#7 lilguy

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 10:53 AM

I went to 2 other shops and they both had variations of the same form.

720 ILCS 5/) Criminal Code of 2012.
(720 ILCS 5/Art. 24 heading)
ARTICLE 24. DEADLY WEAPONS
(720 ILCS 5/24-4) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-4)
Sec. 24-4. Register of sales by dealer.
(a) Any seller of firearms of a size which may be concealed upon the person, other than a manufacturer selling to a bona fide wholesaler or retailer or a wholesaler selling to a bona fide retailer, shall keep a register of all firearms sold or given away.
(b ) Such register shall contain the date of the sale or gift, the name, address, age and occupation of the person to whom the weapon is sold or given, the price of the weapon, the kind, description and number of the weapon, and the purpose for which it is purchased and obtained.
(c ) Such seller on demand of a peace officer shall produce for inspection the register and allow such peace officer to inspect such register and all stock on hand.
(d) Sentence.
Violation of this Section is a Class B misdemeanor.
(Source: P.A. 77-2638.)

#8 soundguy

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 11:02 AM

That's the one which was discussed over the summer.

Apparently, it has been on the books for some time and little used in the past.


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#9 RandyP

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 12:26 PM

As a victim/survivor of the old and thankfully now discontinued City of Chicago Gun Registration system, yes full-on registration, I would comment that while it was a pain in the rump-roast, it was not a deal breaker for my personal firearm ownership lifestyle.

 

Heck-fire, it would not take a reincarnation of Sherlock Holmes to locate gun owners. Some not only post that fact on the interwebs but also list the firearms they own in their signature line. lol If you are alive and active in this 21st century, pretty much anyone can find out everything about you if they have the desire, time and $$ resources.


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#10 mauserme

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 02:52 PM

if we're talking about the requirement to record occupation and purpose, that's been on the books a long time but it hasn't always been done.  In my suburban Chicago experience it's been common.  Outside of this area, maybe not as much.
 
My guess (and it is only a guess - I wasn't involved in this when the law was passed apparently in the 1970's) is that since there are waiting period exceptions for certain occupations, or certain occupations + purpose, the state would like those details recorded at the time of purchase.


#11 lilguy

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 06:34 PM

Thanks for that info Mauserme, that eases my concerns a bit. 



#12 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:46 PM

Plenty of people $20 out the door and not that paperwork, I'd find a new FFL.


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#13 WitchDoctor

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:29 PM

As a victim/survivor of the old and thankfully now discontinued City of Chicago Gun Registration system, yes full-on registration, I would comment that while it was a pain in the rump-roast, it was not a deal breaker for my personal firearm ownership lifestyle.

 

Heck-fire, it would not take a reincarnation of Sherlock Holmes to locate gun owners. Some not only post that fact on the interwebs but also list the firearms they own in their signature line. lol If you are alive and active in this 21st century, pretty much anyone can find out everything about you if they have the desire, time and $$ resources.

Ahh, 3750 S.Kedzie. Don't miss that one bit. Could not get a cab or Uber out of there if you tried.


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#14 EdDinIL

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:48 PM

Plenty of people $20 out the door and not that paperwork, I'd find a new FFL.

 

Since "that paperwork" seems to be the law of the land, don't be surprised if all FFLs get on board with it in order to remain legal.


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#15 lilguy

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:57 PM

My 20 year, 25.00 FFL signed off last year. I live close to a manufacturer that opened a retail shop. Just ordered a unit that was 350.00
under his cost. He said go for it, 40.00. Ill buy locally if its within 15-20% and buy accessories local but 100s of dollars on a gun will drive a transfer.

#16 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:37 PM

 

Plenty of people $20 out the door and not that paperwork, I'd find a new FFL.

 

Since "that paperwork" seems to be the law of the land, don't be surprised if all FFLs get on board with it in order to remain legal.

 

 

So basically state registration of firearms, that's not for me.   I'll buy everything used. 


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#17 Kraaaken

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:32 PM



So basically state registration of firearms, that's not for me.   I'll buy everything used. 


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#18 markthesignguy

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 08:01 PM

 

 

Plenty of people $20 out the door and not that paperwork, I'd find a new FFL.

 

Since "that paperwork" seems to be the law of the land, don't be surprised if all FFLs get on board with it in order to remain legal.

 

 

So basically state registration of firearms, that's not for me.   I'll buy everything used. 

 

 

So you will skip the ISP's no longer optional FOID call-in and 3 day waiting period?

 

They got us Illinois Gunowners "coming and going"....

 

Can't LAWFULLY buy out of state without shipping it in through an in-state FFL....


Edited by markthesignguy, 04 December 2019 - 08:02 PM.

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#19 cybermgk

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 02:10 PM

 

if we're talking about the requirement to record occupation and purpose, that's been on the books a long time but it hasn't always been done.  In my suburban Chicago experience it's been common.  Outside of this area, maybe not as much.
 
My guess (and it is only a guess - I wasn't involved in this when the law was passed apparently in the 1970's) is that since there are waiting period exceptions for certain occupations, or certain occupations + purpose, the state would like those details recorded at the time of purchase.

 

Only place I've seen it up north here is Bass Pro Shop. 4 other FFLs (One now gone, Schranks) still don't.

 

Even at Bass Pro Shop, the form didn't tie my name to a particular firearm, transaction, sale number etc., and they expressly stated it would be sent to the state and not held in store (which could easily be matched to sales records).


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#20 mauserme

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 02:47 PM

Only place I've seen it up north here is Bass Pro Shop. 4 other FFLs (One now gone, Schranks) still don't.
 
Even at Bass Pro Shop, the form didn't tie my name to a particular firearm, transaction, sale number etc., and they expressly stated it would be sent to the state and not held in store (which could easily be matched to sales records).


It seems as if we still haven't defined exactly what information was part of the form mentioned in the opening post.

#21 drumgod

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 02:54 PM

Never had to fill one of these out...  Who checks the validity of the responses?  If I ever do come across this form I suspect my answer will be "N/A" across the board.



#22 mauserme

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:01 PM

Never had to fill one of these out...  Who checks the validity of the responses?  If I ever do come across this form I suspect my answer will be "N/A" across the board.


If it's the info I'm thinking of, no one checks it.

For me, in one store it's simply my occupation and reason for purchase noted at the top of the handwritten receipt. In other cases just a form with name, occupation, and purpose.

#23 ealcala31

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:06 PM

I started doing it on September 1st. What I can't understand is, 55% of FFLs have gone out of business since the IGLB took effect on 07/18, and guys/gals are going to look for a new FFL for enforcing a law that the ISP is now requiring to be enforced. So, you would rather have more FFLs close down for not following regulations and drive 30-40 miles to do a transfer. I digress...

#24 Flynn

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 03:52 PM

So you will skip the ISP's no longer optional FOID call-in

 

I run my own FOID card at least 3-4 times a month, figure if they are going to have a database I might as well fluff it up with useless data, so I can honestly state in court that a vast majority of those inquires were just me doing it myself and I have no idea what ones were really buys, if it ever came to that.


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#25 mikeyk101

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 04:52 PM

 
So you will skip the ISP's no longer optional FOID call-in and 3 day waiting period?
 
They got us Illinois Gunowners "coming and going"....
 
Can't LAWFULLY buy out of state without shipping it in through an in-state FFL....

IIRC. you cannot buy a handgun or "other" (such as a stripped lower) out of state but long guns were ok as long as it was a contiguous state (Wisconsin. Iowa, Missouri. Kentucky, or Indiana). You just have to abide by the Illinois waiting period. And if this is the case, are the out of state dealers required to call in to the ISP or require that form to be filled out? Asking for a friend...

Edited by mikeyk101, 05 December 2019 - 04:57 PM.


#26 Flynn

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 05:16 PM

Just tossing up the idea that a gun trust that includes a trustee from a gun friendly state, might be something worth looking into.


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#27 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 10:13 AM

I guess the state can go to any FFL a look at the books, but it's not on "state paperwork" they can later choose to require anything on, i.e. send all those papers into the state police for a database.    Only validity they need is you name, doubt people allow "Donald Duck" on the form. 


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#28 mauserme

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

I guess the state can go to any FFL a look at the books, but it's not on "state paperwork" they can later choose to require anything on, i.e. send all those papers into the state police for a database.    Only validity they need is you name, doubt people allow "Donald Duck" on the form.


The ISP knows the date(s) of purchase because they retain the background check data, and they have access to the 4473's. That's not quite registration but the result is close to the same.

The thing that confuses me is people acting like a law from 1971'ish, requiring occupation and reason for purchase, is somehow a new registration scheme. It isn't registration, and it sure as heck isn't new. If it was going to cause problems I think we'd know that by now.

I mean, the fact that many were unaware of this requirement makes their knowledge new, not the requirement itself.

#29 Raw Power

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 11:52 AM

 

As a victim/survivor of the old and thankfully now discontinued City of Chicago Gun Registration system, yes full-on registration, I would comment that while it was a pain in the rump-roast, it was not a deal breaker for my personal firearm ownership lifestyle.

 

Heck-fire, it would not take a reincarnation of Sherlock Holmes to locate gun owners. Some not only post that fact on the interwebs but also list the firearms they own in their signature line. lol If you are alive and active in this 21st century, pretty much anyone can find out everything about you if they have the desire, time and $$ resources.

Ahh, 3750 S.Kedzie. Don't miss that one bit. Could not get a cab or Uber out of there if you tried.

 

 

You couldn't get an Uber to Brighton Park?



#30 EdDinIL

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 12:39 PM

 

I guess the state can go to any FFL a look at the books, but it's not on "state paperwork" they can later choose to require anything on, i.e. send all those papers into the state police for a database.    Only validity they need is you name, doubt people allow "Donald Duck" on the form.


The ISP knows the date(s) of purchase because they retain the background check data, and they have access to the 4473's. That's not quite registration but the result is close to the same.

The thing that confuses me is people acting like a law from 1971'ish, requiring occupation and reason for purchase, is somehow a new registration scheme. It isn't registration, and it sure as heck isn't new. If it was going to cause problems I think we'd know that by now.

I mean, the fact that many were unaware of this requirement makes their knowledge new, not the requirement itself.

 

 

The sudden widespread appearance is what is getting everyone tied up in knots, especially in light of the massive, heavily financed anti-gun push going on across the country. Remember, you're not paranoid if they really are out to get you.
 


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