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Conspiracy theories


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#1 TRJ

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:31 AM

This is coming from the guy who had a Twitter account handle @timfoilhat ... And I have been willing to go down a rabbit hole over things like Clinton murders being called suicide and FDA corruption. Who doesn't love a good conspiracy theory? That said, I don't think it's a good idea to allow talk of conspiracy attached to mass shootings to remain visible on the board. It's hurtful to the families of the victims. Maybe our CoC needs an amendment? Just a suggestion.

#2 chicagoresident

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:04 AM

I'm a bit torn on this one. I agree, they make us look awful, but deleting the posts also adds to the delusion of the poster that it's being covered up.

I asked a mod to be allowed to shame and debunk, but the mods are pretty firm on the part of the TOS that prohibits hurting people's feelings. Included in people we are required to be civil to are tinfoil hatters, the civilian disarmament lobby and their politicians, and members itching to call the ATF to shoot your dog.

I don't think there's a good answer, so mods just need to keep moderating them.

I love conspiracy theories but I make sure to site reliable sources. I hate lazy conspiracies, which seems like what these false flags are, on top of being disrespectful and hurtful. Citing a CIA FOIA? Good conspiracy. Citing a YouTube video of some basement dweller? Bad conspiracy. It's even been said by people close to Alex Jones that the workload of talking credible conspiracy theories got to be too much so he just went off the reservation.

Edited by chicagoresident, 06 September 2019 - 10:33 AM.


#3 Raw Power

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:22 AM

My vote is to ban conspiracy theory talk on here.

 

All it does is support Antis and their cause.

 

There are plenty of other places people can go and vent that stuff.



#4 soundguy

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:32 AM

If we were voting, I would vote to limit threads based on iffy claims possibly based on paranoia and strange agendas...

Better to focus on preserving and strengthening our 2A rights.

Edited by soundguy, 06 September 2019 - 10:34 AM.

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#5 chicagoresident

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:39 AM

My favorite conspiracy theory is that the government intentionally seeds really outlandish conspiracy theories that are easily debunked to discredit real conspiracies.

The coverup being government corruption, incompetence, and secret projects more grounded in reality. It's too much of a coincidence that so many prominent out there conspiratists are former government employees.

For the guys in the airforce or aerospace industry it could just be making money guilt free because they're providing cover for any skunkworks type testing.

See to start:
Kevin Shipp
Bob Lazar
Art Bell
Milton William Cooper
Stanton Friedman (government contractor)

But the list goes on forever.

Edited by chicagoresident, 06 September 2019 - 11:50 AM.


#6 357

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:08 AM

My vote is to ban conspiracy theory talk on here.
 
All it does is support Antis and their cause.
 
There are plenty of other places people can go and vent that stuff.


What's conspiracy theory talk? Is telling the truth which some people don't like or have an agenda and presenting evidence conspiracy theory talk? What about an ammendment on the 1st Amendment to suppress the truth? Did you know that the term conspiracy theory was coined by the CIA to shut off debate?

https://projectunspe...vention-of-cia/
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#7 Bubbacs

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:36 AM

My vote is yes

Just wasted time looking at a CT in the National Politics thread......

Even further would be to tone down those who are “regularly” making posts which are intended to incite and bring about heavy debate and to no end possible!

#8 Windermere

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:46 AM

There’s too much information readily available at a very fast pace these days to dismiss conspiracy.

Many have been proven true over the last couple years.

One of the new strategies of the media is to dismiss a story as conspiracy simply because it does not agree with the narrative or when they have to cover up for people they favor.

Let’s not go down the path of suppressing free speech. I say if you don’t like it, then don’t enter the thread.
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#9 chicagoresident

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:54 AM

The moderators could make it this simple, cite your conspiracy with a legitimate FOIA or credible source. If your citation is this guy on youtube or a wacky user created Wordpress blog that also doesn't contain legitimate citations your post gets deleted.

This eliminates bunk claims of "suppressing free speech", which is rediculous in itself. Forcing conspiratal ravings on a PRIVATE platform is actually suppression of the site owners free speech.

illuminati_card_game_conspiracy_theorist

Edited by chicagoresident, 06 September 2019 - 12:01 PM.


#10 soundguy

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:00 PM

Put up or shut up?
... perhaps a special section where all CT talk goes which is only accessible to contributing members?

It could be called the Dead Zone.

Edited by soundguy, 06 September 2019 - 12:01 PM.

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#11 chicagoresident

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:15 PM

Sauce or post loss.

IllinoisCarry is a not-for-profit organization dedicated to providing educational information

Meeting the slightest educational credibility of citing sources isn't too much to ask.

Edited by chicagoresident, 06 September 2019 - 12:15 PM.


#12 steveTA84

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:16 PM

The moderators could make it this simple, cite your conspiracy with a legitimate FOIA or credible source. If your citation is this guy on youtube or a wacky user created Wordpress blog that also doesn't contain legitimate citations your post gets deleted.
This eliminates bunk claims of "suppressing free speech", which is rediculous in itself. Forcing conspiratal ravings on a PRIVATE platform is actually suppression of the site owners free speech. illuminati_card_game_conspiracy_theorist


Thus why I always post proof in my stuff :)

#13 Flynn

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:43 PM

Who decides what is a conspiracy theory and what is not?  For well over two years a large portion of the population and even mainstream media promoted the Russia/Trump collusion 'conspiracy theory' and even now that it's for all intents debunked there are many still insisting it's real.  There is also no shortage of the population the believes that claims that they are coming for your guns is nothing but a conspiracy theory.

 

Truth be told in many cases the difference between a viable alternative truth and a conspiracy is nothing but one's personal opinion and what facts they choose to accept or deny.


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#14 357

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:58 PM

There’s too much information readily available at a very fast pace these days to dismiss conspiracy.
Many have been proven true over the last couple years.
One of the new strategies of the media is to dismiss a story as conspiracy simply because it does not agree with the narrative or when they have to cover up for people they favor.
Let’s not go down the path of suppressing free speech. I say if you don’t like it, then don’t enter the thread.


Well said.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
Edmund Burke

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"
George Orwell

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will loose both"
Benjamin Franklin

#15 357

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:06 PM

Who decides what is a conspiracy theory and what is not?  For well over two years a large portion of the population and even mainstream media promoted the Russia/Trump collusion 'conspiracy theory' and even now that it's for all intents debunked there are many still insisting it's real.  There is also no shortage of the population the believes that claims that they are coming for your guns is nothing but a conspiracy theory.
 
Truth be told in many cases the difference between a viable alternative truth and a conspiracy is nothing but one's personal opinion and what facts they choose to accept or deny.


+1. Inconvenient truth is called conspiracy theory and hate speech.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
Edmund Burke

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"
George Orwell

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will loose both"
Benjamin Franklin

#16 chicagoresident

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 03:22 PM

Who decides what is a conspiracy theory and what is not?  For well over two years a large portion of the population and even mainstream media promoted the Russia/Trump collusion 'conspiracy theory' and even now that it's for all intents debunked



IMO it's drawing the line at lazy conspiracy theories.
-No first hand research
-no first hand evidence collected
-no first hand witness accounts
-no leaked, released, or FOIA government documents
-unknown news sources that don't need to maintain a semblance of respect or are anonymously written to avoid defamation and libel
-any youtube video guilty of the above

I'm not claiming CNN or Breitbart is credible, but they have to report stories with subtle semantics to differentiate facts from sensational conjecture. If you can pick up on those subtleties you could've pieced together the entire Mueller report since it was being leaked every step of the way. I intentionally mention CNN and Breitbart for polarity. Compare the same story in each, you'll see they actually do report versions of the same facts, it's the conjecture that differs.

If Alex Jones used those same semantic subtleties he wouldn't of gotten sued for defamation, but his garbage would've been less interesting to his followers.

Even well cited "out there" conspiracy theories provide good facts that lead to more truths.

An example of a lazy theory would be "The Vegas shooting didn't happen".

An example of a good conspiracy theory is the Vegas shooting had 2 shooters, and here's a picture of bullet holes on this ferris wheel that didn't match ballistics and here's a recording of shots fired after Paddock's death (facts uncovered by a conspiracist). Whether or not there was a second shooter it was enough hard evidence to get the Vegas police department to issue a statement they had an accidental discharge in Paddock's hotel room. I believe the accidental discharge story, someone else probably doesn't. But neither of us can disprove each other because the facts present do support both conjectures.

Edited by chicagoresident, 06 September 2019 - 03:42 PM.


#17 Looper

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 07:07 PM

Sooo, are we hitting area 51 or not?????



#18 mauserme

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 07:10 PM

I've been trying to figure out a good way to put this. I finally realized it's hard to explain because it's so hard to pre-define acceptable topics vs unacceptable.

Obviously we don't want to look crazy, but I don't think we want to get into a "forbidden topic" list, either. Maybe it just comes down to the art of moderating - knowing when to take quick action and when to let things develop. Sometimes it takes a little while for any of us to determine whether a topic is on a truthful course or is fanning flames. Whether "facts" were posted in haste, or if they withstand the scrutiny of many members reading and commenting.

Keep in mind we're all working together on all of this - gun rights, keeping the forum accurate and successful, etc. If you see things that aren't adding up, post to that effect. Use the report button or PM a moderator. Moderators can't be everywhere every time. I know it can be frustrating sometimes. We try to avoid closing threads and removing posts, and that can get annoying. Of course, when we do take action, there are hard feelings about that, too.

It's really just a balancing act that we try to get right. The more input we get, the better we'll be at that.



#19 BobPistol

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 08:31 PM

How are you gentlemen?

All your conspiracy theories are belong to us.

 

You are on the way to buying more tinfoil, make your time.

 

:)


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#20 EdDinIL

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:02 PM

I get that I'm relatively new here... I see the Back Room as a perfect place for people to discuss conspiracy theories.  We (gun owners, conservatives, freedom-lovers) always are proud of how we will let the other person give his/her opinion, no matter how off-the-wall or contrary to our own personal views and values it may seem.  As long as the discussion is civil, either CT threads will die off on their own or just be discussed/read by whatever particular subset of people are interested in it.  Keep them out of the Illinois and National Politics forums, for sure.

 

Will some people come off looking crazy?  Sure, but censorship is a dangerous road to go down, and the moderators currently do a fairly effective job of keeping things on an even keel.


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#21 TRJ

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 04:08 AM

I think the topic broadened from the original focus, suggesting mass shooter events didn't really happen and not posting proof of the claims seems careless and hurtful toward families who lost a loved one in the tragedy.
Other weird ideas are fun and fair game, but I liken shooting tragedy deniers to Holocaust deniers and don't have any interest in their theorys unless they're bringing concrete proof. Perhaps there's an agenda, perhaps the person suffers from profound paranoia, or perhaps the person is simple minded, but whatever the case the words spoken should earn the speaker/post attention from the site staff as a CoC violation. There is no 1st Amendment protection from a private party. The Constitution only limits Government (seemingly in theory these days). Looking at the big picture, IC is one of the major protectors of our rights in Illinois. Keeping messaging that's harmful to their credibility off the board is in everyone's self interest.

#22 mauserme

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 10:39 AM

The kinds of posts you mention in your first sentence usually don't seem to last very long. 

 

I did just look at a thread in National Politics where the topic is turning that direction.  When I read it, I wonder if we would be better off if several posts were to be removed, or if the members posting against the theories is enough.  



#23 chicagoresident

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 11:18 AM

I get that I'm relatively new here... I see the Back Room as a perfect place for people to discuss conspiracy theories.  We (gun owners, conservatives, freedom-lovers) always are proud of how we will let the other person give his/her opinion, no matter how off-the-wall or contrary to our own personal views and values it may seem. 


Keep in mind our enemies have created accounts here so they can see the back room. We know of at least 2, one posts semi regularly, the other just lurks unless he has another account that's more active. That quiet lurker is an NRA instructor who lives with a very well known local antigun activist. Even if they get banned nothing stops them from creating another account.

Edited by chicagoresident, 08 September 2019 - 03:11 PM.


#24 mauserme

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 11:55 AM

Keep in mind our enemies have created accounts here so they can see the back room. We know of at least 2, one posts semi regularly, the other just lurks unless he has another account that's more active. That quiet lurker is an NRA instructor who lives with a very well known local antigun activist. Even if they get banned nothing stops them from creating another account.

Edited by chicagoresident, Today, 12:22 PM.


Not wanting to take this vary far off topic, but who is this "we" you speak of?

IllinoisCarry isn't in the habit of calling an NRA instructor our enemy even if they're acquainted with people who don't agree with us



#25 ilphil

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 05:52 PM

Keep in mind our enemies have created accounts here so they can see the back room. We know of at least 2, one posts semi regularly, the other just lurks unless he has another account that's more active. That quiet lurker is an NRA instructor who lives with a very well known local antigun activist. Even if they get banned nothing stops them from creating another account.
Edited by chicagoresident, Today, 12:22 PM.

Not wanting to take this vary far off topic, but who is this "we" you speak of?
IllinoisCarry isn't in the habit of calling an NRA instructor our enemy even if they're acquainted with people who don't agree with us
In the words of that great philosopher Don Vito Corleone “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer”.

#26 skinnyb82

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 05:53 PM

Meh my post wasn't appropriate for site support forum and didn't notice until posting.

Edited by skinnyb82, 07 September 2019 - 05:55 PM.

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#27 rmart

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 07:22 PM

For those who want proof... it wouldn't be a theory then, would it?

 

What I know is that tinfoil hat stuff from the 70's is mainstream today. So, just because it sounds crazy doesn't always mean it is.


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#28 Mr. Fife

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:52 AM

They don't have access to the "further back" room though, the one behind the "back" room. The beer is better and colder there too. Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
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#29 Glock23

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:26 PM

They don't have access to the "further back" room though, the one behind the "back" room. The beer is better and colder there too.

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#30 Mr. Fife

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:30 PM

You're not supposed to know about the basement. Maybe you're a spy too! Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
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