crufflesmuth Posted January 12, 2024 at 03:02 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 03:02 PM (edited) ISP is clearly lying to the public and gun owners. Under current Supreme Court precedent and doctrine they may do so. Short of another lawsuit, they may continue to claim, late registrations are accepted..and they are..but you will be prosecuted. The ISP is outright lying. If you register a machine-gun with BATFE, they deny and disapprove, for instance. We have come so far since January 1st. Struggling gun shops. Owners and individuals melting down that AR-15's were single shot and not machine-guns. Our community at large needs to accept sometimes, the police are not all on your side. The numbers from Maxons and ISP estimate seem nuanced. ISP's administrative powers are very broad but they are not broad enough to negate this law. For as much as I appreciate Welch's grape juice and Don Harmon's coaxal nonsense, this law is very clear to anyone where prohibition starts and ends. I can appreciate individual efforts of officers but this is the biggest straw to break the backs of everyone. Even if you agree with the ban, you should at least also agree ISP and JCAR should close the disclosure feature and clarify NO registration/disclosure is permitted by law after January 1st, 2024. Perhaps July Morrison can assist them on this matter, she's done such a great job with her current proposal. Edited January 12, 2024 at 03:07 PM by crufflesmuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davel501 Posted January 12, 2024 at 04:03 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 04:03 PM What is the difference between registering something you possessed out of state vs something that never left the state as far as the PICA forms are concerned? One could say they only brought the item into the state after the ISP allowed them to register it. If it is registered then it is legal, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:13 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:13 PM On 1/12/2024 at 9:02 AM, crufflesmuth said: ISP is clearly lying to the public and gun owners. Under current Supreme Court precedent and doctrine they may do so. Short of another lawsuit, they may continue to claim, late registrations are accepted..and they are..but you will be prosecuted. The ISP is outright lying. If you register a machine-gun with BATFE, they deny and disapprove, for instance. We have come so far since January 1st. Struggling gun shops. Owners and individuals melting down that AR-15's were single shot and not machine-guns. Our community at large needs to accept sometimes, the police are not all on your side. The numbers from Maxons and ISP estimate seem nuanced. ISP's administrative powers are very broad but they are not broad enough to negate this law. For as much as I appreciate Welch's grape juice and Don Harmon's coaxal nonsense, this law is very clear to anyone where prohibition starts and ends. I can appreciate individual efforts of officers but this is the biggest straw to break the backs of everyone. Even if you agree with the ban, you should at least also agree ISP and JCAR should close the disclosure feature and clarify NO registration/disclosure is permitted by law after January 1st, 2024. Perhaps July Morrison can assist them on this matter, she's done such a great job with her current proposal. Agree 100%, Pritzker himself stated on video that the registration was still open. So Pritzker IS NOT LE, so they are CLEARLY violating they law. If they want it open they need to change the law, period! If you REALLY think about if, you didn’t register, but you can AT A LATER DATE, can you EVER really be charged with violating the law? As written yes, as stated and applied, no. And the rationalizing that they don’t want to prosecute, or other theories as to their “benevolence” needs to stop. They hate us period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:13 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:13 PM On 1/12/2024 at 10:03 AM, davel501 said: What is the difference between registering something you possessed out of state vs something that never left the state as far as the PICA forms are concerned? One could say they only brought the item into the state after the ISP allowed them to register it. If it is registered then it is legal, right? Only a judge can answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:28 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:28 PM On 1/12/2024 at 9:02 AM, EdDinIL said: From the "I am not a lawyer" files: If someone does something to initiate a legal challenge over the registry being left open beyond the mandated date, would that challenge be considered as an acceptance that the law is valid, because the ISP or Governor are acting outside that particular law? Sounds like that to me - IANAL either. Can't use a law you say is illegal as the basis for a complaint about enforcement I would GUESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:35 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 05:35 PM On 1/6/2024 at 10:26 AM, mauserme said: Yes, that's the easiest way to explain this. As far as J B Pritzker is concerned the law is a success. Its main purpose is so that Jelly Belly can say he "stood up to the NRA and won" to further his presidential resume. Who cares if it makes law-abiding citizens "criminals"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Posted January 12, 2024 at 07:12 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 07:12 PM They are desperate because of the 1% compliance rate. They can't enforce it at this compliance rate. The people have practically nullified this Unconstitutional law. I regret registering and if I knew compliance was gonna be so low I wasn't gonna register but registered because of selective justice. The only reason for registration is so they can knock on people's door and easily confiscate them. Massive civil disobedience is the only thing we have left to stop this law, the people behind this law control everything including the courts apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upholder Posted January 12, 2024 at 07:16 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 07:16 PM On 1/12/2024 at 1:12 PM, John J said: Massive civil disobedience is the only thing we have left to stop this law, the people behind this law control everything including the courts apparently. They may have control of the State Supreme Court, but they do not have control of the SCOTUS -- which is why they are trying to stall countrywide. Their only hope once SCOTUS takes a case is that it has been long enough down the road that Biden has had a chance to replace a couple of justices such as Thomas and Alito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurimodin Posted January 12, 2024 at 07:45 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 07:45 PM (edited) On 1/12/2024 at 1:12 PM, John J said: Massive civil disobedience is the only thing we have left to stop this law well, not the only thing.... On 1/12/2024 at 1:16 PM, Upholder said: They may have control of the State Supreme Court, but they do not have control of the SCOTUS -- which is why they are trying to stall countrywide. Their only hope once SCOTUS takes a case is that it has been long enough down the road that Biden has had a chance to replace a couple of justices such as Thomas and Alito. You know that is up to SCOTUS.......IIRC they keep referring these cases back to the bottom in some futile and pointless attempt to dodge the issue. Edited January 12, 2024 at 07:45 PM by yurimodin added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragsbo Posted January 12, 2024 at 08:17 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 08:17 PM On 1/12/2024 at 1:16 PM, Upholder said: They may have control of the State Supreme Court, but they do not have control of the SCOTUS -- which is why they are trying to stall countrywide. Their only hope once SCOTUS takes a case is that it has been long enough down the road that Biden has had a chance to replace a couple of justices such as Thomas and Alito. From what I see, I am losing hope that the SCOTUS will do ANYTHING to stop this crap! They just keep saying no to everything and letting the "lower" courts mess around, drag their feet and do nothing! All the while our rights are being denied and abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Posted January 12, 2024 at 08:26 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 08:26 PM On 1/12/2024 at 2:17 PM, ragsbo said: From what I see, I am losing hope that the SCOTUS will do ANYTHING to stop this crap! They just keep saying no to everything and letting the "lower" courts mess around, drag their feet and do nothing! All the while our rights are being denied and abused. I lost hope in the SCOTUS too. They better wake up and hurry up. Unfortunately Roberts and Barret are not true conservatives. After the democrats win in November one way or the other and the demographics change by design with the open border, they will pass a nationwide ban and take control of the Supreme Court and our Constitutional rights will be a piece of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 12, 2024 at 11:05 PM Share Posted January 12, 2024 at 11:05 PM On 1/12/2024 at 2:26 PM, John J said: and our Constitutional rights will be a piece of paper. Sounds like it would be time to start using firearms under the 2A for their intended purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted January 13, 2024 at 01:19 AM Share Posted January 13, 2024 at 01:19 AM On 1/12/2024 at 5:05 PM, steveTA84 said: Sounds like it would be time to start using firearms under the 2A for their intended purpose Don’t you even think about that… Cheers Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted January 13, 2024 at 01:30 AM Share Posted January 13, 2024 at 01:30 AM On 1/12/2024 at 2:17 PM, ragsbo said: From what I see, I am losing hope that the SCOTUS will do ANYTHING to stop this crap! They just keep saying no to everything and letting the "lower" courts mess around, drag their feet and do nothing! All the while our rights are being denied and abused. It's been a year, and we're just getting started. McDonald took two years from first filing to SCOTUS ruling, it was considered a fast moving case. Yes, we are all frustrated, and we need to keep perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crufflesmuth Posted January 13, 2024 at 03:33 AM Share Posted January 13, 2024 at 03:33 AM On 1/12/2024 at 11:13 AM, mab22 said: Agree 100%, Pritzker himself stated on video that the registration was still open. So Pritzker IS NOT LE, so they are CLEARLY violating they law. If they want it open they need to change the law, period! If you REALLY think about if, you didn’t register, but you can AT A LATER DATE, can you EVER really be charged with violating the law? As written yes, as stated and applied, no. And the rationalizing that they don’t want to prosecute, or other theories as to their “benevolence” needs to stop. They hate us period! 1. People like Welch; Harmon; Moms Demand Action. They do not hate anyone, per se. They believe they are right. If they hate anything, it's the power the AR-15 gives the average citizen over a police officer. The AR-15 is more powerful than a lawyer suing for false arrest, violation of civil rights, etc. 2. It's not about benevolence. Whether the law makes sense. Whether you can or cannot understand it does not matter. To them, it's about passing another law to end "violence" or secure more political and social clout. The law does not give mercy, patience or grace. Either people elect politicians that do not want to ban these firearms or more will be banned. 3. The police and government do not have your interest at heart. Even the most friendly, down-to-earth police officer has one order: establish preponderance, lead with the question (lie), arrest and charge. That does not change when they are testifying in court either. 4. The gun community needs to start having standards. Reward good police. Ostracize the bad ones. That includes politicians as well. 5. People need to stop using their language and logic. Becoming a felon? only when you have been through the trial process. Law-abiding? only until they change your constitution and the laws, so that you are something different. 6. The days of enjoying progressive left-wing politics are over. If people continue to vote for these type of politicians, there will be a different culture in place than what currently exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crufflesmuth Posted January 13, 2024 at 03:53 AM Share Posted January 13, 2024 at 03:53 AM (edited) If you look at """assault weapon""" bans, you leave with the understanding that politicians are establishing class in American culture. What progressive, left-wing politicians want is a system where it's so legally complicated that you can carry a handgun for transportation to the range. A system where using a concealed weapon is pointless because of all the "sensitive" places. Add their "taxes" to where the culture is nonexistent or not mainstream. They never wanted the police disarmed, especially their private security. They want a system where you are easily abused and going through endless motions in court, spending more money and having to make difficult decisions so you are not bankrupt. That is their vision. That is why they hate the AR-15, a magazine of more than 10 rounds. Gun owners and citizens need to be empowered, educated and hold a strict-line in the sand. We are no longer ignorant citizens listening to lies from neighborhood police in the 1960's. Edited January 13, 2024 at 03:56 AM by crufflesmuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted January 13, 2024 at 02:12 PM Share Posted January 13, 2024 at 02:12 PM On 1/12/2024 at 9:53 PM, crufflesmuth said: Gun owners and citizens need to be empowered, educated and “hold a strict-line in the sand”. We are no longer ignorant citizens listening to lies from neighborhood police in the 1960's That’s the thing that many don’t understand… sand is always shifting. The line will never be absolute. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Posted January 15, 2024 at 02:56 AM Share Posted January 15, 2024 at 02:56 AM On 1/12/2024 at 7:19 PM, soundguy said: Don’t you even think about that… Cheers Tim People are waking up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTHunter Posted January 15, 2024 at 03:27 AM Share Posted January 15, 2024 at 03:27 AM On 1/14/2024 at 8:56 PM, John J said: People are waking up.... Hopefully, this isn't a case of "too little, too late". When you have the "supermajority" that the dems have on this state now, AND with the assorted shenanigans they pull, it might be. 🤮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted January 15, 2024 at 02:57 PM Share Posted January 15, 2024 at 02:57 PM On 1/13/2024 at 8:12 AM, soundguy said: That’s the thing that many don’t understand… sand is always shifting. The line will never be absolute. Cheers, Tim It's fairly absolute to me when it says, "Shall not be Infringed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallbore Posted January 15, 2024 at 03:57 PM Share Posted January 15, 2024 at 03:57 PM Sadly the following is not respect by way too many though it is true. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, and not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right. [Nunn vs. State, 1 Ga. (1 Kel.) 243, at 251 (1846)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCC Posted January 15, 2024 at 04:38 PM Share Posted January 15, 2024 at 04:38 PM I believe we've lost this battle as we sit here 1 year post "assault weapon" Ban and it's the law !!! Constitution means nothing to the Commies as well as prior Court rulings or decisions. The circle will continue with political appointees making Rulings with ONE goal in mind which is Unarmed Citizens across this Nation. We still pay the State of Illinois for the right to purchase/own firearms & ammunition which in itself registration for a 2nd Amendment Right. Is FOID anymore Constitutional now than it was in it's inception ???? Yet we still deal with it because we've been UNABLE to defeat it !!!! Better start thinking about what YOUR fight against confiscation looks like !!!!! This Government is way darker than most want to believe.... Justice for the most part is a thing of the past if you're on the wrong side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 16, 2024 at 07:49 PM Share Posted January 16, 2024 at 07:49 PM Make of this what you will…… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunCollector Posted January 16, 2024 at 08:03 PM Share Posted January 16, 2024 at 08:03 PM Fascinating. Not sure how to interpret this, but interesting that they update FOIA to restrict this type of request. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 16, 2024 at 08:19 PM Share Posted January 16, 2024 at 08:19 PM (edited) On 1/16/2024 at 2:03 PM, GunCollector said: Fascinating. Not sure how to interpret this, but interesting that they update FOIA to restrict this type of request. Thanks for sharing. What it really means is that there’s (at least via a FOIA request) no way to see exactly what’s being registered. We just gotta take ISP’s word on the numbers and that everything being registered is actually items that need to be and can’t even see what NFA items are inflating those numbers. Further, should The media somehow get lists and such, we know it wouldn’t be through FOIA and would be another route Edited January 16, 2024 at 08:20 PM by steveTA84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upholder Posted January 17, 2024 at 01:06 AM Share Posted January 17, 2024 at 01:06 AM ISP is also, once again, in violation of state law. In this case, PICA requires that the ISP "develop and implement a public notice and public outreach campaign to promote awareness": Quote 720 ILCS 5/24-1.9 (h) The Department of the State Police shall also develop and implement a public notice and public outreach campaign to promote awareness about the provisions of this amendatory Act of the 102nd General Assembly and to increase compliance with this Section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Roark Posted January 17, 2024 at 02:20 AM Share Posted January 17, 2024 at 02:20 AM Seems like ISP is violating the restriction on FOIA requests relative to the registry in that they themselves are publishing counts of guns and attachments registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted January 17, 2024 at 03:03 AM Share Posted January 17, 2024 at 03:03 AM On 1/16/2024 at 7:06 PM, Upholder said: ISP is also, once again, in violation of state law. In this case, PICA requires that the ISP "develop and implement a public notice and public outreach campaign to promote awareness": Keep digging, whatever else they are or ARE NOT doing needs to be called out. Although, I suspect they would say 🖕we posted it on the website and it’s good enough for the plebs. Wonder what a judge would think 🤔. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted January 17, 2024 at 03:09 AM Share Posted January 17, 2024 at 03:09 AM On 1/16/2024 at 2:19 PM, steveTA84 said: What it really means is that there’s (at least via a FOIA request) no way to see exactly what’s being registered. We just gotta take ISP’s word on the numbers and that everything being registered is actually items that need to be and can’t even see what NFA items are inflating those numbers. Further, should The media somehow get lists and such, we know it wouldn’t be through FOIA and would be another route It’s not like you’re requesting names and addresses, just the “what” that has been registered, and they are already providing some public info on that. You could ask them how much it costs the state to register each item, (what is the cost to register an “assault flashlight” , for example, and a detailed breakdown of the whole programs cost…. Do we know who did the work and under what contract? Was there a bid on the contract, or even a contract to make the website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illinois Sucks Posted January 17, 2024 at 02:31 PM Share Posted January 17, 2024 at 02:31 PM On 1/12/2024 at 9:33 PM, crufflesmuth said: 1. People like Welch; Harmon; Moms Demand Action. They do not hate anyone, per se. They believe they are right. If they hate anything, it's the power the AR-15 gives the average citizen over a police officer. The AR-15 is more powerful than a lawyer suing for false arrest, violation of civil rights, etc. I don't believe for a moment that any of them actually "believe they are right". They do this for the money... to stay in power.. to feel relevant.. because they "have to do something"... because they are being told to by those that they represent (or have been bought by)... There are SOOOOO many other things they can do to "protect Illinois communities" that would ACTUALLY make an impact than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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