Fraction of 1% of FOID card holders register banned guns in first week

[yurimodin]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:59 PM, danbrew said:

I left Illinois about five years ago… but had thought about it at least weekly for most of the thirty years that I was there.  People don’t move because they have jobs, they have family there, they have kids in school, etc.  I get it.  Funny, when I left I was 54 and *everybody* I knew talked about “they can’t wait to get out of Illinois” but, you know, nobody did it for all of the reasons above.  My catalyst was once my youngest went off to college.  I literally dropped him off at college (1000 miles away) and then turned left and went to South Carolina.  So… it was easy for me to go and the timing just worked out for my family.

 

Yet… what if it hadn’t? At least 80% of my collection would be prohibited with these whacky new laws in Illinois.  Sure, sure, you can “register” them and let the government know where they are and all.  Gotta be safe.  But how long before they decide they should start picking them up? And while many of us are gun people and technology people, what happens to the guy who was completely unaware of the registration thing? Of course ignorance of the law and all that…

 

It seems there is a process in place to leave these items to your heirs - and there’s even a helpful little FAQ that says, “what if I inherit something that was not previously registered?” The ISP kindly suggests that you go ahead and submit a registration request.  How much you wanna bet they’ll come get it? And potentially charge you with a crime.  Forgetting for a moment about your fifth amendment rights to avoid a requirement to confess to a crime.

 

The most interesting thing, of course - and this is super easy for me to say as I’m eating popcorn 1000 miles away - is what’s gonna happen come the deadline in January when only a fraction of those required to register actually do so? That’s when we’re gonna see the gestapo brush off that list they’re not supposed to have and start kicking in doors.  Don’t like your neighbor? Drop a dime on him and call up the ISP and tell ‘em you know he has unregistered “""""assault weapons""""”.  Scary stuff, I know.

 

We all know that some folks are going to get nailed and made an example of to drive compliance.  There may very well be a bunch of dead gestapo members once they start kicking in doors, but what about the guy that gets arrested? His defense should be, “no, didn’t know anything about the requirement to register an item I bought legally ten years ago…” and, even better, “since you guys knew where to come since you were keeping illegal lists, why wouldn’t you have just sent me a letter and picked up the phone and advised me that there was a change in the law? That would have been the neighborly thing to do.”

 

I’m guessing that kinds of people who have already registered weren’t really gun people - or maybe they were the same kind of people who lined up for the covid shots.  I dunno.  I’m also guessing that a ton of people are never going to register.  It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

 

It was the highlight of my life to get the heck out of Illinois.  Highly recommended - there are jobs and schools and all that in 49 other states.

 

Lived here my whole life......eventually there will not be anywhere left to "just move" to. What they do now is on them.

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I won't be registering....my stuff is now safely secured outside the State of Illinois. 

 

Like the folks who have not the resources to replace all their mags with 15 round compliant CCL mags, my heart goes out to folks who have not the resources to get their ""assault weapons"" and Attachments out of State and will be forced to fill out disclosure affidavits or potentially become felons. This sucks, Illinois. 

 

VooDoo

Edited December 26, 2023 at 10:27 PM by Vodoun da Vinci

[davel501]

On 12/26/2023 at 3:46 PM, Dobroguy said:

They say pistols that holds more than 15 rounds, which is all of them because they hold 16 rounds..  Just saying

 

Show us in the law where it says that. 

 

https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K24-1.9.htm

[springfield shooter]

On 12/26/2023 at 3:57 PM, mauserme said:

 

I merged this into the existing compliance thread.

The last time we talked about the idea that they would use enforcement to drive up compliance, someone pointed out that they could only enforce after it was too late to comply.  At the time, there was really no logic in trying to push up compliance by making an example of a few people.

Since that time it's come out that ISP may not treat the deadline as an actual deadline, looking at it more as a suggested date after which they might still allow registration.  If that pans out the way they say it might, enforcement would likely be more along the lines of "you better register that, or we might charge you".

Either way, we're not anticipating any gestapo tactics.

 

 

 

Mauser,

 

Has the ISP said something along the lines of 'enforcement is going to be the responsibility of the various counties'?

 

Edit: Never mind. Used the search feature.

Edited December 26, 2023 at 11:08 PM by springfield shooter

[Grub]

My father was a police officer for almost 20 years. 

 

His advice is echoed by many other places online and real world.

 

You never talk to police.

 

No gestapo tactics are going to happen.

 

Simply shut up and unless you've been really stupid there is nothing they can or will do.

Edited December 26, 2023 at 11:10 PM by Grub

[danbrew]

Well, maybe not.  It depends upon how badly those in power in the state want to make an example.  It’s a state law - not a county law.  And while there may be plenty of local sheriff’s that say they’re not going to spend time/money on enforcing state laws, there’s always someone, somewhere who will.  And the ISP is the enforcement arm of the State.  So, yeah, I think we can count on gestapo tactics.  Hopefully not many, hopefully not widespread, but guaranteed there will be some.

[davel501]

On 12/26/2023 at 7:18 PM, danbrew said:

Well, maybe not.  It depends upon how badly those in power in the state want to make an example.  It’s a state law - not a county law.  And while there may be plenty of local sheriff’s that say they’re not going to spend time/money on enforcing state laws, there’s always someone, somewhere who will.  And the ISP is the enforcement arm of the State.  So, yeah, I think we can count on gestapo tactics.  Hopefully not many, hopefully not widespread, but guaranteed there will be some.

 

The ISP has already said they aren't going to be actively enforcing this. I imagine that means they will only bring charges that prove PICA is good, so add-ons for "bad" people. 

 

The blue counties that have a dem sheriff and state's attorney are likely to be the places that see the most enforcement. 

[ragsbo]

Would a rash of arrests and prosecutions under this law help or hurt it during the court challenges? Would arrests open up different court challenges to the law since a person was actually being harmed by the law? I don't know just asking. AND I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO BE PUT THROUGH THAT!

[soundguy]

On 12/26/2023 at 7:18 PM, danbrew said:

It depends upon how badly those in power in the state want to make an example.

 

How would they know who to make an example of?

 

Cheers,

Tim

[cnwfan3]

On 12/26/2023 at 9:13 PM, soundguy said:

 

How would they know who to make an example of?

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

This ^ ^

 

Not to mention the Blair Holt ""assault weapons"" ban has been the law in Crook county since 2006.  I don't recall even hearing about one person being charged with violation of this law in Crook county.  By no means I'm I advocating anyone to break the law, but many are way way too worried about this.  People doing something stupid that are caught may be arrested and charged, but I just don't see them going "door to door"  to check for compliance to all foid card holders.

Edited December 27, 2023 at 03:37 AM by cnwfan3

[BCC]

RIGHT......2.4 million search warrants  🤭

[davel501]

On 12/26/2023 at 9:13 PM, soundguy said:

 

How would they know who to make an example of?

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

They'd probably start with people posting pics of weapons on social media and saying they'll never comply. 

 

Next up would be the people that did person to person transfers. 

 

By then the data team that got funded in all this might have figured out some trickery if this is still getting dragged out in the courts. 

 

I have to imagine most criminal prosecutions will be stayed until the federal court cases about the legality are settled so it doesn't seem like there's much point in pursuing these until the challenges run their course. 

[mab22]

On 12/26/2023 at 7:42 PM, ragsbo said:

Would a rash of arrests and prosecutions under this law help or hurt it during the court challenges? Would arrests open up different court challenges to the law since a person was actually being harmed by the law? I don't know just asking. AND I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO BE PUT THROUGH THAT!

 

Perhaps there could be a go fund me, or give send go , (seeing as how some of these orgs are Marxist/Socialist sympathizers we might have to pick the correct one) in the event someone is charged? OR at least be prepared to get some donations and legal assistance going in the event something goes sideways for someone.

One person may not be able to afford it, BUT if there are enough people with small donations it could make a difference. 🤷‍♂️

 

[StuckInIllinois]

On 12/26/2023 at 9:13 PM, soundguy said:

 

How would they know who to make an example of?

 

Cheers,

Tim

Interesting story, I may have posted here before. Short version, in 2005-6ish a CPD detective called me to inquire if I still had a particular pistol that I purchased in 2003 from a certain growing gun shop in Plainfield. Seems a CPD uniform was supposedly shot with this type of pistol and they were clearing names of possible thefts and subsequent use of this type of handgun. Yeah, I was amazed they had my information. I was even more amazed at the size of the binder my name was in. I happened to of purchased two handguns the day I bought the one in question. Yeah, that may had have something to do with it…..
 

As an aside, I contacted the ISRA about this on the same day I talked to a lawyer for some guidance. ISRA never got back to me. 

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:01 AM, StuckInIllinois said:

Interesting story, I may have posted here before. Short version, in 2005-6ish a CPD detective called me to inquire if I still had a particular pistol that I purchased in 2003 from a certain growing gun shop in Plainfield. Seems a CPD uniform was supposedly shot with this type of pistol and they were clearing names of possible thefts and subsequent use of this type of handgun. Yeah, I was amazed they had my information. I was even more amazed at the size of the binder my name was in. I happened to of purchased two handguns the day I bought the one in question. Yeah, that may had have something to do with it…..
 

As an aside, I contacted the ISRA about this on the same day I talked to a lawyer for some guidance. ISRA never got back to me. 

For that kind of issue they will go from manufacture to FFL (book) and then down the person to person trail, I keep no records past 10 years for sales or records of anything I own. 

The IRSA seems to be a private boys club, I've never gotten any response from them even inquiries to elected responsibilities or anything else.   

They will never see another dime unless they become public. 

 

[RandyP]

On 12/26/2023 at 11:53 PM, mab22 said:

 

Perhaps there could be a go fund me, or give send go , (seeing as how some of these orgs are Marxist/Socialist sympathizers we might have to pick the correct one) in the event someone is charged? OR at least be prepared to get some donations and legal assistance going in the event something goes sideways for someone.

One person may not be able to afford it, BUT if there are enough people with small donations it could make a difference. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

I "presume" or is that "assume" that anyone who will make the personal choice to not comply by 12/31/23 has already provided the funds for their own legal defenses should that consequential need arise from that choice? That would be the prudent/smart thing to do?  No donations would likely be necessary down the road.

[Grub]

Not only does the state have no resources or desire to do any of this, none of this has happened in any other registration state. 

 

They don't care. This is all a long term play for JB to run for president in 2028.

 

They know long term this is going to get overturned, and they still don't care.

[yurimodin]

On 12/26/2023 at 10:35 PM, davel501 said:

 

They'd probably start with people posting pics of weapons on social media and saying they'll never comply. 

If they want ppl to start drilling third holes and adding the giggle switch back this is a sure way to do it.......if you're going down, might as well make it count.

 

 

On 12/27/2023 at 12:01 AM, StuckInIllinois said:

I happened to of purchased two handguns the day I bought the one in question. Yeah, that may had have something to do with it…..

When you purchase 2 handguns within a week there is special paperwork that has to be done for no reason.

[mab22]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:53 AM, RandyP said:

 

I "presume" or is that "assume" that anyone who will make the personal choice to not comply by 12/31/23 has already provided the funds for their own legal defenses should that consequential need arise from that choice? That would be the prudent/smart thing to do?  No donations would likely be necessary down the road.

Look at the cases that Illinois Carry, ISRA, SAF, GSL, etc stepped in to help on, were those people saving every penny they could for their own legal defense?

It's not required donations, just a thought, not everyone has spare money.

"From many one" or "e pluribus unum"

[davel501]

On 12/27/2023 at 9:41 AM, yurimodin said:

If they want ppl to start drilling third holes and adding the giggle switch back this is a sure way to do it.......if you're going down, might as well make it count.

 

I can't find a fault in this logic. 

 

[rmart]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:53 AM, RandyP said:

 

I "presume" or is that "assume" that anyone who will make the personal choice to not comply by 12/31/23 has already provided the funds for their own legal defenses should that consequential need arise from that choice? That would be the prudent/smart thing to do?  No donations would likely be necessary down the road.

 

Would that fall under the 'justice is only available to those who have money' clause?

[vstar]

Number approximately doubled from before Christmas, but still low.

 

Number of Individuals Completing a Disclosure: 15,164

[mauserme]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:15 PM, vstar said:

Number approximately doubled from before Christmas, but still low.

 

Number of Individuals Completing a Disclosure: 15,164

 

It was showing between 8,000 and 9,000 this morning.  I think they don't update very often.  

 

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

There's like 4 days after today to complete disclosure affidavits. I think maybe anyone who has waited to the last minute to see what happens are making their choices here the next few days so we can expect that number (maybe?) to jump up. 

 

VooDoo

[yurimodin]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:25 AM, rmart said:

 

Would that fall under the 'justice is only available to those who have money' clause?

Everything is held hostage by the Bar MafiaTM

[RandyP]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:25 AM, rmart said:

 

Would that fall under the 'justice is only available to those who have money' clause?

I think it more properly falls under the 'if I choose to keep hitting my head with a hammer, I don't expect others to pay for my headache medicine' clause.. While I have expressed my likely choice of action before the deadline, I have never criticized anyone else for whatever way they choose to handle this mess........... and obviously accept the consequences of their choice. - good or bad. Life remains a series of choices. You make yours and I'll make mine and that's what makes the world go 'round. 

Edited December 27, 2023 at 08:52 PM by RandyP

[davel501]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:45 PM, RandyP said:

I think it more properly falls under the 'if I choose to keep hitting my head with a hammer, I don't expect others to pay for my headache medicine' clause.. While I have expressed my likely choice of action before the deadline, I have never criticized anyone else for whatever way they choose to handle this mess........... and obviously accept the consequences of their choice. - good or bad. Life remains a series of choices. You make yours and I'll make mine and that's what makes the world go 'round. 

 

We don't have a justice system. We have a legal system. To pretend simply acting right protects you from that reality is not doing anyone any favors. 

[Upholder]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:41 PM, Vodoun da Vinci said:

There's like 4 days after today to complete disclosure affidavits. I think maybe anyone who has waited to the last minute to see what happens are making their choices here the next few days so we can expect that number (maybe?) to jump up.

 

I do expect a number of last minute registrations. 

 

We are currently sitting at about 2/3 of a percent (0.62%) of the 2.4m FOID holders who have registered.  I would not be surprised if that number topped 1%, but I would be shocked if it ended up over 5%. 

 

Even if we assume the number of FOID card holders who own something that is required to be registered is closer to 1/3 of the 2.4M (unlikely to be that low), at the extreme high end 5% of FOID holders, that would be on the close order of 15% compliance... which is a far cry from where the state would like it to be.

[davel501]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:05 PM, Upholder said:

 

I do expect a number of last minute registrations. 

 

We are currently sitting at about 2/3 of a percent (0.62%) of the 2.4m FOID holders who have registered.  I would not be surprised if that number topped 1%, but I would be shocked if it ended up over 5%. 

 

Even if we assume the number of FOID card holders who own something that is required to be registered is closer to 1/3 of the 2.4M (unlikely to be that low), at the extreme high end 5% of FOID holders, that would be on the close order of 15% compliance... which is a far cry from where the state would like it to be.

 

Agreed. I'm guessing 2%.

[soundguy]

Are we making up numbers now? I'll take 0.8734%.

 

Cheers,

Tim