Fraction of 1% of FOID card holders register banned guns in first week

[yurimodin]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:24 PM, Black Flag said:

But, if Illinois and ISP go full police state, then consider everyone fair game for a search.
Won't that be a surprise for the smug ones?

I'm sure that will help their recruitment goals. 

[Rev Jim]

Very interesting reading in this thread.  Not many people would advocate not complying with state law on a public forum, so by default we are left with comments aimed to encourage compliance.  

 

There are doubtless many registerable items in the hand of non-FOID holders that are in the real denominator of compliance percentages.  When this act was passed I considered it to be penalty enhancements for people committing crimes with banned items, sort of like how FOID is used.  When someone commits a crime they charge them with everything possible and use that to make a deal.  So now instead of a felon with no FOID robbing someone with a Glock that has a switch, they will be able to add the extendo clip and the threaded barrel under PICA to the pile of charges.  Instead of giving them 10 weeks, maybe they will get 12 weeks!

[crufflesmuth]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:48 PM, mauserme said:

This is like reliving the period after concealed carry passed in Illinois.  A few folks were running around saying if you print, or carry more than one gun, or more than one magazine they're going to bankrupt you with legal fees while you rot in jail.  I'm sure the anti's in Chicago and Cook County enjoyed all the worry they were able to sew, and am convinced they sent people here to promote that worry.

 

Just as I am convinced now that some are purposely spreading doubt out of motives that have nothing to do with protecting our rights.

 

My advice then and now, is to weigh the entirety of their posts and decide if they are expressing genuine concern, or if they're beating the horse to death with constant admonitions of all the things that can go wrong in life.  Once you figure them out it's easy to ignore their nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

This issue has languished since that time and persists. When Protect Illinois Communities Act did not exist, there were instances where CPD and other departments arrested someone for possession of an "assault" weapon, when the weapon in question was a handgun. The difference between the aftermath of the 2013 FCCL Act and PICA is that, with the FCCL, issues like "printing" or brief exposure of a firearm - there was already preexistent criminal legal theory to compensate potential deficiencies. That sort of exists with PICA, but with the pre-trial process. The law enables police a broad array of potential charges, to charge gun owners with. Just like DUI laws and training.

 

You can be arrested and charged with a DUI, with having zero alcohol and drugs due to other factors, preponderance cues: you crossed lanes without signaling, or you crossed lanes abruptly. It's that calculus that could potentially be applied to charging individuals under PICA. JCAR's guidelines don't make application fair better. If I have a Glock 26 with a Glock 19 magazine, which extends beyond the grip, will the average street cop in suburban Cook and similar know the difference? I doubt it. 

 

Individuals might be 100% right on the law, but their lives and time have the potential to be upended by zealous police who will face pressure to make arrests to satisfy department quotas and political ends of the county sheriff and the like. 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 at 06:25 PM by crufflesmuth

[soundguy]

Reading what Mauserme writes, and taking that to heart, is probably the best thing anyone could do. There is a whole bunch of doubt sowing, dead horse beating and general needless fretting going on all over the internet about this.

 

I will add that putting your money where your mouth is by financially supporting Illinois Carry is also desirable.

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 at 07:07 PM by soundguy

[kevin525]

On 12/19/2023 at 4:33 PM, davel501 said:

 

"(2) """assault weapon""" does not include:
        (A) Any firearm that is an unserviceable firearm or has been made permanently inoperable.
        (B) An antique firearm or a replica of an antique firearm.
        (C) A firearm that is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide action, unless the firearm is a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
        (D) Any air rifle as defined in Section 24.8-0.1 of this Code.
        (E) Any handgun, as defined under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act, unless otherwise listed in this Section."

 

Stop fear mongering. 

I have a Question i'm hoping someone could answer about (2) (A) Any firearm that is made unserviceable. Does that mean a person could remove the firing pins and cut them up, a person would not have to register them since you can't buy new firing pins rendering the firearm unserviceable according dictionary definition.

[davel501]

On 12/21/2023 at 1:59 PM, kevin525 said:

I have a Question i'm hoping someone could answer about (2) (A) Any firearm that is made unserviceable. Does that mean a person could remove the firing pins and cut them up, a person would not have to register them since you can't buy new firing pins rendering the firearm unserviceable according dictionary definition.

 

The law seems to indicate that as a path forward but you'd need to consult your own attorney to be 100%.

[kevin525]

On 12/21/2023 at 2:32 PM, davel501 said:

 

The law seems to indicate that as a path forward but you'd need to consult your own attorney to be 100%.

Thanks, I saw that part of the bill and was just wondering. 

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 12/21/2023 at 1:59 PM, kevin525 said:

I have a Question i'm hoping someone could answer about (2) (A) Any firearm that is made unserviceable. Does that mean a person could remove the firing pins and cut them up, a person would not have to register them since you can't buy new firing pins rendering the firearm unserviceable according dictionary definition.

 

That's not entirely true, but are you throwing away your firing pins? 

Hows that any different than just removing the loaded mag?

 

According to Webster unserviceable is "not in working order". 

With either solution they will not work. 

 

 

 

[soundguy]

On 12/21/2023 at 1:59 PM, kevin525 said:

I have a Question i'm hoping someone could answer about (2) (A) Any firearm that is made unserviceable. Does that mean a person could remove the firing pins and cut them up, a person would not have to register them since you can't buy new firing pins rendering the firearm unserviceable according dictionary definition.

 

My guess is no, removing the firing pin and throwing it away doesn't count.

 - You could buy one in nearly any other state.

 - You could easily have a spare stashed.

 

I think altering the gun in a way that can never be repaired is what they are going for.

 

Just a guess.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[kevin525]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:29 AM, soundguy said:

 

My guess is no, removing the firing pin and throwing it away doesn't count.

 - You could buy one in nearly any other state.

 - You could easily have a spare stashed.

 

I think altering the gun in a way that can never be repaired is what they are going for.

 

Just a guess.

 

Cheers,

Tim

I was thinking the same. In the FAQs it said registered firearms could be taken to a ffl or gun smith for repairs. But ISRA say's yes you can but have a gunsmith destroy them and get paper work saying they were destroyed. What a mess this is.

[Jeffrey]

Kinda surprised they didn't offer a state wide buy back.  We'll give you a $100 gift card for your Colt AR..

[SiliconSorcerer]

As appropriate as it was on this day in WWII Battle of the Bulge.

 

 "Nuts!" 

[davel501]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:29 AM, soundguy said:

 

My guess is no, removing the firing pin and throwing it away doesn't count.

 - You could buy one in nearly any other state.

 - You could easily have a spare stashed.

 

I think altering the gun in a way that can never be repaired is what they are going for.

 

Just a guess.

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

By that logic every firearm is an "asSSauLt WEapOn". 

[max503]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:26 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

As appropriate as it was on this day in WWII Battle of the Bulge.

 

 "Nuts!" 

😉

[yurimodin]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:26 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

As appropriate as it was on this day in WWII Battle of the Bulge.

 

 "Nuts!" 

 

[soundguy]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:35 AM, davel501 said:

 

By that logic every firearm is an "asSSauLt WEapOn". 

 

That's a pretty silly thing to say and makes no sense at all.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[davel501]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:29 AM, soundguy said:

 

My guess is no, removing the firing pin and throwing it away doesn't count.

 - You could buy one in nearly any other state.

 - You could easily have a spare stashed.

 

I think altering the gun in a way that can never be repaired is what they are going for.

 

Just a guess.

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

On 12/22/2023 at 11:05 AM, soundguy said:

 

That's a pretty silly thing to say and makes no sense at all.

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

Seems silly to think you can only buy firing pins on adjacent states. 

[Mr. Fife]

I can't wait till I finally move out of Illinois.

 

On my first day out I will one or two of everything I can't have here now.

Why? Just because. Maybe I'll have the space/ distance when I move and they will be more useful for me.

 

Or maybe they will just sit on a wall next to my cast iron frying pan collection.

I don't have the frying pan collection yet, even though it's not illegal to have one AFAIK.

 

Anyway, looking forward to goodbye, and to thank for the fish, or lack of lol.

 

 

 

 

[Kingcreek]

On 12/22/2023 at 3:45 PM, Mr. Fife said:

I can't wait till I finally move out of Illinois.

 

On my first day out I will one or two of everything I can't have here now.

Why? Just because. Maybe I'll have the space/ distance when I move and they will be more useful for me.

 

Or maybe they will just sit on a wall next to my cast iron frying pan collection.

I don't have the frying pan collection yet, even though it's not illegal to have one AFAIK.

 

Anyway, looking forward to goodbye, and to thank for the fish, or lack of lol.

 

 

 

 

Mr Fife, don’t wait on the cast iron, it’s getting harder to find and more expensive.

still check goodwill, or small town flea markets or antique malls, estate sales etc. I have more than a life time supply. If they aren’t cracked warped or made in Taiwan they can probably be reconditioned to great. Don’t just hang them on a wall. Use them.

[mikew]

On 12/25/2023 at 12:24 PM, Kingcreek said:

Mr Fife, don’t wait on the cast iron, it’s getting harder to find and more expensive.

 

Lodge is better than ever, accessible and affordable.

 

And Victoria, from Columbia, has shapes and sizes that Lodge does not.

One that I think might be hard to find is the Lodge Ashtray.
They still have baby pans, but without the wings for the cigarettes.

[DoYouFeelLucky]

Lodge makes an assault frying pan, however you cannot buy it in IL.

[Mr. Fife]

I have several lodge, a couple of skillets and a boy scout style dutch oven. I've kind of become hooked on reading the reddit group r/castiron lately.

So at my walk to Aldi's last week I stopped at the thrift store and brought home a skillet I found for $6 made my Ruff Hewn. I know the brand is nothing special, but I will use it as my first experiment in lye bath stripping, electrolysis, and rust removal. I think I would like to build a nice collection to hang on a wall when I get my own barn someday. Lodge is very affordable and is all I use for cooking, but I'm jealous of some barn wall displays I've been seeing in that group. It looks like it could turn out to be a satisfying hobby.

[papa]

On 12/25/2023 at 1:40 PM, mikew said:

Lodge is better than ever, accessible and affordable.

 

And Victoria, from Columbia, has shapes and sizes that Lodge does not.

One that I think might be hard to find is the Lodge Ashtray.
They still have baby pans, but without the wings for the cigarettes.

 

The Lodge small ashtray skillet can be found on Ebay.  If you are a mind to visit that site.

[Yeti]

Am I reading it right that about 8,000 people (of 2.4 million FOID card holders) have disclosed items to the state under PICA?  I am sure those were all murdering criminals so I feel so much safer right now that the Illinois SS knows specifically where to look for those threaded-barrel (makes them “assaultier”) 10/22 rifles after the next gang battle with known career criminals.  And given that feelings are so much more important than reality to many in this messed up state, that must mean PICA is a true win for the people?  2024 will be notably safer from day one… 

 

 

[yurimodin]

On 12/26/2023 at 9:28 AM, Yeti said:

Am I reading it right that about 8,000 people (of 2.4 million FOID card holders) have disclosed items to the state under PICA?  I am sure those were all murdering criminals so I feel so much safer right now that the Illinois SS knows specifically where to look for those threaded-barrel (makes them “assaultier”) 10/22 rifles after the next gang battle with known career criminals.  And given that feelings are so much more important than reality to many in this messed up state, that must mean PICA is a true win for the people?  2024 will be notably safer from day one… 

 

 

my guess is those are mostly city & county employees doing CYA

[RandyP]

I would submit that we poor sods living in Cook and the Collar counties have good reason to expect OUR States Attorneys and law enforcement folks WILL treat this infringement legislation and deadline much differently than the rest of this sorry sphincter State's officials will. Compliance or relocation of property remain the two "best" options - IMHO. I define "best" as describing the vast difference between a dog turd milkshake and a cow turd milkshake when being forced to drink one or the other. 

[mikew]

On 12/26/2023 at 12:24 AM, papa said:

 

The Lodge small ashtray skillet can be found on Ebay.  If you are a mind to visit that site.

I quit smoking in 2008, the heart attack was a motivator.
However, I still have my Lodge ashtray, it's probably the only one that I kept.

 

 

[danbrew]

I left Illinois about five years ago… but had thought about it at least weekly for most of the thirty years that I was there.  People don’t move because they have jobs, they have family there, they have kids in school, etc.  I get it.  Funny, when I left I was 54 and *everybody* I knew talked about “they can’t wait to get out of Illinois” but, you know, nobody did it for all of the reasons above.  My catalyst was once my youngest went off to college.  I literally dropped him off at college (1000 miles away) and then turned left and went to South Carolina.  So… it was easy for me to go and the timing just worked out for my family.

 

Yet… what if it hadn’t? At least 80% of my collection would be prohibited with these whacky new laws in Illinois.  Sure, sure, you can “register” them and let the government know where they are and all.  Gotta be safe.  But how long before they decide they should start picking them up? And while many of us are gun people and technology people, what happens to the guy who was completely unaware of the registration thing? Of course ignorance of the law and all that…

 

It seems there is a process in place to leave these items to your heirs - and there’s even a helpful little FAQ that says, “what if I inherit something that was not previously registered?” The ISP kindly suggests that you go ahead and submit a registration request.  How much you wanna bet they’ll come get it? And potentially charge you with a crime.  Forgetting for a moment about your fifth amendment rights to avoid a requirement to confess to a crime.

 

The most interesting thing, of course - and this is super easy for me to say as I’m eating popcorn 1000 miles away - is what’s gonna happen come the deadline in January when only a fraction of those required to register actually do so? That’s when we’re gonna see the gestapo brush off that list they’re not supposed to have and start kicking in doors.  Don’t like your neighbor? Drop a dime on him and call up the ISP and tell ‘em you know he has unregistered “"""assault weapons"""”.  Scary stuff, I know.

 

We all know that some folks are going to get nailed and made an example of to drive compliance.  There may very well be a bunch of dead gestapo members once they start kicking in doors, but what about the guy that gets arrested? His defense should be, “no, didn’t know anything about the requirement to register an item I bought legally ten years ago…” and, even better, “since you guys knew where to come since you were keeping illegal lists, why wouldn’t you have just sent me a letter and picked up the phone and advised me that there was a change in the law? That would have been the neighborly thing to do.”

 

I’m guessing that kinds of people who have already registered weren’t really gun people - or maybe they were the same kind of people who lined up for the covid shots.  I dunno.  I’m also guessing that a ton of people are never going to register.  It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

 

It was the highlight of my life to get the heck out of Illinois.  Highly recommended - there are jobs and schools and all that in 49 other states.

 

Edited December 26, 2023 at 09:02 PM by danbrew

[Dobroguy]

They say pistols that holds more than 15 rounds, which is all of them because they hold 16 rounds..  Just saying

[mauserme]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:59 PM, danbrew said:

I left Illinois about five years ago… but had thought about it at least weekly for most of the thirty years that I was there.  People don’t move because they have jobs, they have family there, they have kids in school, etc.  I get it.  Funny, when I left I was 54 and *everybody* I knew talked about “they can’t wait to get out of Illinois” but, you know, nobody did it for all of the reasons above.  My catalyst was once my youngest went off to college.  I literally dropped him off at college (1000 miles away) and then turned left and went to South Carolina.  So… it was easy for me to go and the timing just worked out for my family.

 

Yet… what if it hadn’t? At least 80% of my collection would be prohibited with these whacky new laws in Illinois.  Sure, sure, you can “register” them and let the government know where they are and all.  Gotta be safe.  But how long before they decide they should start picking them up? And while many of us are gun people and technology people, what happens to the guy who was completely unaware of the registration thing? Of course ignorance of the law and all that…

 

It seems there is a process in place to leave these items to your heirs - and there’s even a helpful little FAQ that says, “what if I inherit something that was not previously registered?” The ISP kindly suggests that you go ahead and submit a registration request.  How much you wanna bet they’ll come get it? And potentially charge you with a crime.  Forgetting for a moment about your fifth amendment rights to avoid a requirement to confess to a crime.

 

The most interesting thing, of course - and this is super easy for me to say as I’m eating popcorn 1000 miles away - is what’s gonna happen come the deadline in January when only a fraction of those required to register actually do so? That’s when we’re gonna see the gestapo brush off that list they’re not supposed to have and start kicking in doors.  Don’t like your neighbor? Drop a dime on him and call up the ISP and tell ‘em you know he has unregistered “"""assault weapons"""”.  Scary stuff, I know.

 

We all know that some folks are going to get nailed and made an example of to drive compliance.  There may very well be a bunch of dead gestapo members once they start kicking in doors, but what about the guy that gets arrested? His defense should be, “no, didn’t know anything about the requirement to register an item I bought legally ten years ago…” and, even better, “since you guys knew where to come since you were keeping illegal lists, why wouldn’t you have just sent me a letter and picked up the phone and advised me that there was a change in the law? That would have been the neighborly thing to do.”

 

I’m guessing that kinds of people who have already registered weren’t really gun people - or maybe they were the same kind of people who lined up for the covid shots.  I dunno.  I’m also guessing that a ton of people are never going to register.  It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

 

It was the highlight of my life to get the heck out of Illinois.  Highly recommended - there are jobs and schools and all that in 49 other states.

 

 

I merged this into the existing compliance thread.

The last time we talked about the idea that they would use enforcement to drive up compliance, someone pointed out that they could only enforce after it was too late to comply.  At the time, there was really no logic in trying to push up compliance by making an example of a few people.

Since that time it's come out that ISP may not treat the deadline as an actual deadline, looking at it more as a suggested date after which they might still allow registration.  If that pans out the way they say it might, enforcement would likely be more along the lines of "you better register that, or we might charge you".

Either way, we're not anticipating any gestapo tactics.