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Springfield Armory - have they attoned to Illinois gun owners?


tricolor
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I am considering replacing my older Walther PPS with a higher capacity 9mm, and the gun shop is trying to steer me from the Glock 43X to the Hellcat 9mm and telling me about a promotion where you get three extra mags.  The pistol is optics ready and with the extra mags seems like a decent deal - but it is a Springfield Armory product. 

 

The dealer said that Springfield Armory has done good things for gun owners after the dealer licensing fiasco, but was unable to give me any specifics.  I know that SA said their lobbyist acted without approval or something like that and was fired, but I never really bought into that.  To me, it seems unlikely that a lobbyist would act without the knowledge or approval of the company employing the lobbyist. 

 

So, does anyone know if SA has done anything for us as gun owners in Illinois?  Or should I just buy the Glock?

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Can’t speak to all that, but I did buy a hellcat osp recently that I like pretty well.  Ok my only gripe is that they were supposed to be doing a giveaway where you get a range bag and 3 spare mags.  Now I wasn’t aware of that when I bought it, but filled out the form when I did see it.  So far I’ve not seen those items, so if they don’t send them then that’s a bit of a ding in my opinion.  But then again I wasn’t expecting that when I purchased it.  However compared to the p365 models and others it was more pricey so it would be nice if they honor their promotion.  
 

All that said, the gun itself is very nice and seems fairly accurate.  I got the hellcat osp that can accept an optic.  To be completely honest the reason I bought it was because I had a Taurus gx4, but I would carry open chamber.  That weapon had no manual safety.  
 

To make a long story short someone flashed a gun at me one day in traffic after they cut me off and nearly hit me twice and I had the nerve to honk.  I never pulled mine or anything as they were getting off an exit, but that incident got me thinking if that person had hit me how the situation would have went down, since they seemed to have no issues using their car as a weapon.  So in essence I now carry with one in the chamber and the safety on.  That is just my personal preference.  I hope I’m never in a situation to need it.  However if budget were a concern I’d consider the Taurus gx4.  It seemed to show a little more holster wear.  For half the price you can afford accessories and ammo.  
 

Anyway, on the company, can’t say one way or the other.  It’s supposed to have a lifetime warranty, as I said I haven’t seen the items from the promo as of yet.  But so far I like my hellcat.  I will say that one thing you will find is that the grip feels pretty square.  I ended up putting a hogue rubber grip on it and I like that pretty well.  Haven’t used a Glock so I can’t speak to that.  

Edited by illinois_buckeye
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Thanks for the responses.  After thinking about this more, I'm going to look at the Glock and the GX4 (thanks Illinois buckeye, I hadn't considered that pistol before you mentioned it).   I like the size and the feel of the Hellcat, and if the Croatian manufacturer imported the pistols I'd probably have one.  But I have decided that I'm not comfortable supporting Springfield Armory when there are so many other options without the baggage. 

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On 7/24/2022 at 7:05 PM, tricolor said:

Thanks for the responses.  After thinking about this more, I'm going to look at the Glock and the GX4 (thanks Illinois buckeye, I hadn't considered that pistol before you mentioned it).   I like the size and the feel of the Hellcat, and if the Croatian manufacturer imported the pistols I'd probably have one.  But I have decided that I'm not comfortable supporting Springfield Armory when there are so many other options without the baggage. 

If I can throw this out there  

 

If you're looking at Taurus, you might want to look at the G2C. I like their size, it's a nice shooting gun and it has a 12 round mag capacity.  I personally know 4 people that have the G2C and they really like them.

 

Best part is Palmetto State Armory has them on sale for  $199 with a $25 Mail in rebate.  

 

 

 

 

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As far as the Taurus, I had a g2c that I traded.  Not a bad gun but they have the g3c which is an improved version, better trigger, comes with 3 mags I think.  I actually just bought a g3c with a stainless steel slide, should be arrive at the gun store tomorrow actually.  You kind of wonder what they may be coming up with though as it looks like they are having rebates on a lot of their stuff.
 

That said, I got my foid in 2020, the g2c was my first hand gun.  I think I had close to 1000 before I traded it in.  But if you are looking for a 200ish dollar gun it’s not bad.  
 

The thing on the g2c and the g3c from what I’ve seen has a very long first trigger pull but a very short reset.  I personally liked the gx4.  I personally liked the trigger on it more than the g2c.  Due to the situation in my previous post that’s why I traded the gx4, but if they come up with one that has a manual safety I’d consider buying another.  Some guys don’t like Taurus but I never had issues with any of mine and from what I’ve seen they have come a long way in the last few years.  
 

So anyway, on Taurus, if you want p365 or hellcat size, the gx4 is what you want.  If you want a slightly larger but still compact pistol, on a budget get the g2c, hard to go wrong.  If you’ve got a few dollars more to spend get the g3c.  
 

From what I’ve seen as well something popular to do in the g2c and g3c is get a steel striker guide (stock one is plastic), and a stainless steel guide rod.  I think a company called lakeline llc makes those and quite a few other parts.  One good thing on the g3c and I think the gx4 is that they accept Glock sights, so if you want to put night sights etc on you can do that.  

 

 One other pistol to look at if you like the hellcat but don’t want to buy Springfield, check out the ruger max 9.

 

 Here’s a link to one as an example.

 

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/135849/ruger+3500+max-9+optic+ready+9mm+3.20+10+112+1+black+black+oxide+steel+slide+black+polymer+grip

 

Never fired one, ruger is a good company I just don’t like the way their pistols break down with the pin.  The gx4 you need a screwdriver or something like that.  But either way you have good options.

 

 Edit: forgot to mention if looking at Taurus, if the optics are something you care about look at the toro versions of their guns.  But the g2c above is a good deal for a decent gun.  Hard to beat that pricing.  Never had any issues with the one I had.

Edited by illinois_buckeye
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  • 3 weeks later...

Older thread now but an update, I mentioned that I hadn’t seen anything from Springfield regarding the promotion they were doing after I signed up.  Their promotion i think runs through August 31st. I had a package from them today with 2 15 round magazines and a 13 round magazine for my hellcat, and a nice range bag also.  The hellcat came with an 11 round and a 13 round magazine from the factory.  If you are considering Springfield it is a decent deal they are offering.

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Springfield Armory sells good products at a reasonable price. Yes many are imported and some are fabricated in Geneseo, IL. I believe in supporting every firearm purveyor I can, they  'could' quickly become a vanishing breed without our support to the entire industry.

 

I have NO idea, nor do I really much care, about the specific politics or actual personal and personnel actions of the manufacturers of the commodities I purchase. I pretty much base all my buying decisions on whether or not it represents to ME to be a good product at a fair price. When it comes to firearms I own a variety from a variety of manufacturers, Springfield Armory included. I would not hesitate for a split second to buy firearms made in Croatia, Israel, Turkey, Germany, the USA etc.etc,etc. IF they are good quality and are offered at a price that fits my budget.

 

At 73 I reckon I've fiddled around in the shooting sports for over 6 decades now and sometimes sit back and marvel at the wonderful plethora of choices there are in good guns at all price ranges to suit every budget. 'Saturday Night Specials' are hardly ever even discussed. The 'about' $300 market is simply amazing IMHO. 

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On 8/11/2022 at 10:15 AM, RandyP said:

Springfield Armory sells good products at a reasonable price. Yes many are imported and some are fabricated in Geneseo, IL. I believe in supporting every firearm purveyor I can, they  'could' quickly become a vanishing breed without our support to the entire industry.

 

I have NO idea, nor do I really much care, about the specific politics or actual personal and personnel actions of the manufacturers of the commodities I purchase. I pretty much base all my buying decisions on whether or not it represents to ME to be a good product at a fair price. When it comes to firearms I own a variety from a variety of manufacturers, Springfield Armory included. I would not hesitate for a split second to buy firearms made in Croatia, Israel, Turkey, Germany, the USA etc.etc,etc. IF they are good quality and are offered at a price that fits my budget.

 

At 73 I reckon I've fiddled around in the shooting sports for over 6 decades now and sometimes sit back and marvel at the wonderful plethora of choices there are in good guns at all price ranges to suit every budget. 'Saturday Night Specials' are hardly ever even discussed. The 'about' $300 market is simply amazing IMHO. 

 

Same here. I don't have a reason to purchase anything from them yet, but I have to say that I'm surprised at the quality for the price. I'll admit, I did go through a "I'll never buy from them!" phase after they backed the dealer bill, but I've moved past that.

 

Does that make me a hypocrite? Well, there comes a certain point where you have to be more pragmatic about these sort of things. Sorta how I once swore off certain big box stores until I realized that I'm not going to fully agree with every stance these companies take. If that's how I approached the subject, I'd soon find myself unable to shop anywhere, except perhaps the overpriced Ma and Pa store you seem to find in every town or neighborhood.

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On 8/12/2022 at 4:09 PM, illinois_buckeye said:

That’s not bad at all.  Some people hate on them, but I bought a Taurus g3c recently for about 270.  I paid a bit extra because it had the stainless steel slide.  You can get a plain black one for less, maybe 230-250.  But it really is a decent gun and you get 3 mags in the box.

I've been eying the G3C for a while now. I believe can you can use Sig 226 mags with them too. 

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Can’t confirm that but it’s a nice gun.  Sometimes mine has a hard time chambering hollow points but on the other hand I’ve only got just over 100 rounds through it so it may break in more as I shoot.  Feeds fmj fine though.  Might be something that would work out if I just polish the feed ramp, but I’ll probably see how it acts once I’ve got 300-400 through it.

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On 8/11/2022 at 10:15 AM, RandyP said:

Springfield Armory sells good products at a reasonable price. Yes many are imported and some are fabricated in Geneseo, IL. I believe in supporting every firearm purveyor I can, they  'could' quickly become a vanishing breed without our support to the entire industry.

 

I have NO idea, nor do I really much care, about the specific politics or actual personal and personnel actions of the manufacturers of the commodities I purchase. I pretty much base all my buying decisions on whether or not it represents to ME to be a good product at a fair price. When it comes to firearms I own a variety from a variety of manufacturers, Springfield Armory included. I would not hesitate for a split second to buy firearms made in Croatia, Israel, Turkey, Germany, the USA etc.etc,etc. IF they are good quality and are offered at a price that fits my budget.

 

At 73 I reckon I've fiddled around in the shooting sports for over 6 decades now and sometimes sit back and marvel at the wonderful plethora of choices there are in good guns at all price ranges to suit every budget. 'Saturday Night Specials' are hardly ever even discussed. The 'about' $300 market is simply amazing IMHO. 

 

I agree.  I recently purchased a Springfield 1911 for $600 and it's a wonderful firearm.  I don't know whether it's imported or not but for $600 I got a lot of value.  For a comparable Kimber it would be $1000 or more.  I try to buy stuff I like at prices I can afford and don't worry much about who likes them or not.

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On 8/15/2022 at 2:48 AM, soundguy said:

Wasn't the boycott of Springfield and the earlier boycott of S&W a really Karen thing to do?

It all made sense at the time.

 

Springfield is fresher:
they were at the NRA meeting when the burn started, and they waited until the meeting was over before they started to address it.
and it was for a carve-out for themselves from IL GDL, which eventually closed half of IL FFLs.

 

 

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IMO, No. Their carve-out was instrumental in passing the law that shut down literally every FFL I used and there have been no suitable replacements. Their imported pistols are fine. Their politics are crap. I get that they blamed their lobbyist... but if a dog bites you, is not the owner responsible? Same goes for RRA. With friends like that, who needs enemies.
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On 8/16/2022 at 6:38 AM, drumgod said:

IMO, No. Their carve-out was instrumental in passing the law that shut down literally every FFL I used and there have been no suitable replacements. Their imported pistols are fine. Their politics are crap. I get that they blamed their lobbyist... but if a dog bites you, is not the owner responsible? Same goes for RRA. With friends like that, who needs enemies.

We have no base from which to build and it would seem that $$$ means more than anything we discuss.

We have just here at IC 20,372 registered members as of this post. 1,405 currently online but these members aren’t being used.

Who has the e-mail lists? Have they been broken down by North, South, Middle Illinois?  Has there ever been an e-mail blast to gather support?  Thousands of instructors who have students with e-mail addresses AND may have never been told about IC as part of their class. 

 

Yes i I know as I’ve said some of this before and was met with, we don’t want to trouble our members/students.  They didn’t tell us we could contact them!  Exactly why the moms, dads, left, reverends etc. all get people out, get people to boycott, they have a group mentality towards meeting their beliefs head on.  Gun Owners?  We post within the cry’s for who is supporting us.  Where’s the ISRA etc.

Well where are we?  Those who we fight (kind of) have the mechanisms in place. They want to be involved.  We don’t need our people to be on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook etc.  We just need to reach out and see who wants to and who can help.  Let those who don’t wish to get involved opt out of any future e-mails.  

 

Springfield sucks us back in with new deals giving away a $2.50 landed range bag from China. Yay.

if you don’t agree that’s ok. I have this opinion and I’m sure someone has a better idea how to push back. But getting 10 guys to show up last minute to block seats at a anti gun rally speech TrueType shows the commitment that gun owners have.

 

“I have my gun, I have my CCL and FOID. I can buy ammo so leave me alone until I can’t and I’ll be glad to be listed as a gun owner.”

 

Thats what we might want to print on the backs of our cards on the next run of them. No Gun. No Cash. Remember them?

 

 

 

 

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Does anyone have a link to what they actually did?  I guess whatever Springfield did was before my time here.  When my wife and I were younger, I didn't keep a gun in the house.  Guess I never felt unsafe if that makes sense.  All the riots in 2020 is what got me into guns/self defense.  Sure my family in Ohio always had guns in the house, dad had shotguns for hunting and a handgun or two, but when my wife and I first were married, just never really a thought to be honest.  Glad I'm not that way now.  

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On 8/16/2022 at 9:30 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Does anyone have a link to what they actually did?  I guess whatever Springfield did was before my time here.  When my wife and I were younger, I didn't keep a gun in the house.  Guess I never felt unsafe if that makes sense.  All the riots in 2020 is what got me into guns/self defense.  Sure my family in Ohio always had guns in the house, dad had shotguns for hunting and a handgun or two, but when my wife and I first were married, just never really a thought to be honest.  Glad I'm not that way now.  

https://bearingarms.com/davidl/2017/05/01/springfield-armory-and-rock-river-arms-sell-out-illinois-ffls-n29795

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On 8/18/2022 at 2:35 PM, djmarkla said:

What about Bill Ruger wanting capacity limits on civilian owned magazines, Or Gaston Glock paling around with Antisemite friends?  People say and do stupid things and trust the wrong people all of the time. 

Bill Ruger has been dead for 20 years and didn’t ever impact capacity limits for me.  The current leadership of the Ruger makes products with more capacity than he may have wanted and that’s good for me.  Gaston Glock has not impacted my firearms freedoms to date (but I may not like the man).
 

 Springfield Armory has the same leadership today that employed a lobbyist who supported legislation leading to a significant negative impact for me that lasts to this minute and helped to shut down a large number of FFLs.  The leadership of Springfield was at best ignorant (Lobbyist Management 101–  1. Every lobbyist is always loaded 2. Be aware of what your lobbyist is targeting and the surroundings 3. Never point your lobbyist at something you’re not willing to destroy…) if not deceitful and certainly was arrogant in response.  Springfield is a firearms company operating in IL that should have been well aware of the state environment and risks of its chosen actions and level of participation.

 

You are correct, people/business leaders say and do stupid things.  The only person I will ever agree with 100% at all times is me.  But many of us have a line, particularly when it comes to 2A issues.  Springfield crossed my line and has not undone the damage it caused (or just aided) to the 2A in IL to date.

 

 

 

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