vezpa Posted June 12, 2016 at 09:43 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 09:43 PM "Christians" is way too broad a term. There are Catholics Lutherans Protestants and dozens of other religious and political (and overlapping) groups in the Middle Ages and it's important to differentiate and identify which group was involved. There are also different types of Muslims. 1. Sunni2. Shi'a.3. Sufi.4. Ahmaddiya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted June 12, 2016 at 09:57 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 09:57 PM Maybe grow up a bit and stop arguing amongst yourselves about which religion has done what? Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk5 Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:11 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:11 PM Maybe grow up a bit and stop arguing amongst yourselves about which religion has done what? Just a thought... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:12 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:12 PM Do we know yet if he voted for Obama? And was he going to support Hillary or Trump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:17 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:17 PM I could of swore that Hitler and the Nazis were to blame for the Holocaust. Not sure where you got the info that Christians had anything to do with that. Also, OKC Bombing? If anything he would of been a branch Davidens, which is NOT a Christian group. Well, I'm not sure of any Christian organization that would claim the KKK, but I know that they did try to portray themselves as such. The Salem witch trials, yes was Christian's. So I guess one out of four is correct. ???? I don't think the Nazis were composed of anyone but Catholics and Protestants. ????put that aside for a moment. OKC Bomber Tim McVey was a member of a group called "Christian Identity". >>>> Well, I'm not sure of any Christian organization that would claim the KKK, but I know that they did try to portray themselves as such.Yet how many of us have heard the mainstream Muslims say the Islamic Terriorists are not real Muslims and cry "BS"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:19 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:19 PM Do we know yet if he voted for Obama? And was he going to support Hillary or Trump?Perhaps a registered Democrat... http://voters.findthedata.com/l/28019600/Omar-Mir-Seddique-Mateen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Pucker Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:31 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:31 PM Show me the attacks by Christians over the last couple hundred yearsSpanish Inquisition. Who cares about a few hundred years? Salem Witch TrialsWWII Jewish HolocaustKKK Domestic TerrorismOKC Bombing Overlooking the obvious WWII flub, there's a huge difference between groups or individuals "claiming" (mistakenly) that they are operating in the name of Christianity compared to actually following the teachings of the one for whom Christianity was named. Put a different way, judge Christianity by Christ's actions, not those of his (mistaken and misguided, i.e., human) followers. I.e., love your neighbor Islam is different. The Quran specifically condones acts of violence against infidels and others. I.e., maim or kill your neighbor if they commit certain "offenses." Peaceful and tolerant Muslims who have adapted and coexist in polite society do indeed exist. But they do so in spite of their holy book, not because of it. The Quran is not going to change anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Pucker Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:37 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 10:37 PM Maybe grow up a bit and stop arguing amongst yourselves about which religion has done what? Just a thought... Would you feel the same way if the shooter had claimed he was a proud card-carrying member of the NRA? Doubtful. You'd be outraged and quick to rise to its defense. Explaining that his actions in no way represent the beliefs of the organization. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:04 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:04 PM Anyone hear/read what handgun was being used by the murderer? I keep hearing an 'AR-15' and a handgun. Just curious what handgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerus Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:20 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:20 PM As for his religion. Well - Christians have done some pretty atrocious things and still do. We don't blame Chrsitianity do we? Oh, here we go and it only took 57 posts...Show me the attacks by Christians over the last couple hundred years and we'll compare the numbers and severities against those of Islam during the same period. The difference is that 'Christians' who committed atrocious things were not following the precepts of the philosophy and therefore Christianity should not be credited with those attacks.Do we accept credit for all attacks with guns because they wielder was a gun owner just like we are? Certainly not. The Muslim religion certainly advocates violence, subjugation, and murder of infidels and apostates as well as practitioners of other 'crimes' such as: Not being a MuslimBeing a femaleBeing gayHaving funListening to western musicNot dressing properly'Insulting' Muhammedetc.etc.etc. I can't speak to your motivation for making that statement but my suspicions are that you are either succumbing to political correctness or you are ignorant of the facts pertaining to Christianity, or you're just anti-religion in general. But, to associate Christians with the depredations of Muslim extremism is ridiculous. And, I'm sure I just fed the trolls... Not gonna go there but the history is out there. The point being is that Muslim extremist follow a twisted version of the religion as did the Christian extremist. Hundreds of thousands if not millions have died in the name of God. Let's focus on the people committing these terrible acts and not their twisted religious views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:29 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:29 PM Glock Wolf Blitzer, a Automatic assault rifle.........Senator from Florida,"Why do we have military style assault weapons available to the public?""Why do we have military style magazines which allow the continued shooting of many""We must stop the availability of these military style weapons to civilians" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerus Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:30 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:30 PM Overlooking the obvious WWII flub, there's a huge difference between groups or individuals "claiming" (mistakenly) that they are operating in the name of Christianity compared to actually following the teachings of the one for whom Christianity was named. Put a different way, judge Christianity by Christ's actions, not those of his (mistaken and misguided, i.e., human) followers. I.e., love your neighbor Islam is different. The Quran specifically condones acts of violence against infidels and others. I.e., maim or kill your neighbor if they commit certain "offenses." Peaceful and tolerant Muslims who have adapted and coexist in polite society do indeed exist. But they do so in spite of their holy book, not because of it. The Quran is not going to change anytime soon. The bible says a lot of things that would get people thrown in prison nowadays. They were common place in the past though. Few people follow that book word for word. Not all Muslims follow the radicalized version of their religion either. I'd ask who the biggest opponent of gay rights are the in the US but this religion blaming crap has gone on long enough. Crazy people will do crazy **** regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerus Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:32 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:32 PM Bernie also believes that automatic weapons should not be available when discussing the Orlando incident.http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/06/12/sanders-not-selling-automatic-weapons/Perhaps Bernie should learn the laws before commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vstar Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:37 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:37 PM Bernie also believes that automatic weapons should not be available when discussing the Orlando incident. http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/06/12/sanders-not-selling-automatic-weapons/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARFACE Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:39 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:39 PM As for his religion. Well - Christians have done some pretty atrocious things and still do. We don't blame Chrsitianity do we? Oh, here we go and it only took 57 posts...Show me the attacks by Christians over the last couple hundred years and we'll compare the numbers and severities against those of Islam during the same period. The difference is that 'Christians' who committed atrocious things were not following the precepts of the philosophy and therefore Christianity should not be credited with those attacks.Do we accept credit for all attacks with guns because they wielder was a gun owner just like we are? Certainly not. The Muslim religion certainly advocates violence, subjugation, and murder of infidels and apostates as well as practitioners of other 'crimes' such as: Not being a MuslimBeing a femaleBeing gayHaving funListening to western musicNot dressing properly'Insulting' Muhammedetc.etc.etc. I can't speak to your motivation for making that statement but my suspicions are that you are either succumbing to political correctness or you are ignorant of the facts pertaining to Christianity, or you're just anti-religion in general. But, to associate Christians with the depredations of Muslim extremism is ridiculous. And, I'm sure I just fed the trolls... Not gonna go there but the history is out there. The point being is that Muslim extremist follow a twisted version of the religion as did the Christian extremist. Hundreds of thousands if not millions have died in the name of God. Let's focus on the people committing these terrible acts and not their twisted religious views. And the social justice warriors have shown up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmart Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:47 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:47 PM Show me the attacks by Christians over the last couple hundred yearsSpanish Inquisition. There's no denying that great crimes were committed in the name of Christ and Christianity. Those crimes however were perpetrated not by the tenets of the faith but by people who had seized control of the philosophy for their own worldly ends. Open up your bible and find the instructions for those actions. The point here is that going to church and saying you are a Christian doesn't make you a Christian anymore than sleeping in a garage and calling yourself a Chevrolet makes you a '57 Chevy... 75% of this country self-identifies as Christian and yet we have the society we have today. (I blame Christians and Christian pastors for that btw...) The KKK was not Christian no matter how many crosses they burned and no matter how much they professed faith in Christ. The teachings of Christ do not embrace hatred, slavery, or vigilantism in any way.The Nazis were certainly not Christians ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany ) and had plans on creating their own form of 'Christianity' having little to do with the teachings of Christ.The Spanish Inquisition has been renounced by all including the Catholics which were principal in the execution of the program.The Oklahoma City bombing was perpetrated by a lone individual that was at best an agnostic ( http://www.tektonics.org/guest/mcveigh.htm ). The Christian philosophy has no tenets encouraging or sanctioning murder, hatred, or vigilantism and certainly does not endorse the killing of unbelievers. At worst, the teachings of Christianity tell believers that if someone doesn't want to believe in Christ to 'shake the dust off your feet' at them and move on. All will have to answer to God some day and Christianity teaches us to allow each individual to make their own decision. By definition, if someone is violating the teachings of Christ, they are not a Christian no matter what they say. Can one say the same thing about the Muslim faith? To identify Christians as being no different from Muslim extremists, Nazis, KKK, Spanish Inquisitors, Oklahoma City bombers, Planned Parenthood demonstrators, murderers of abortion doctors, etc. is ridiculous.If you do so you're no better than the anti-gun libs who attempt to associate the NRA with anyone who uses a gun for evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:53 PM Share Posted June 12, 2016 at 11:53 PM These threads always deteriorate into nothing about what was/is originally started.When you are posting even worse bs than the far left main stream media, you've lost your control.This shooting tragedy was not about the GD KKK or past history all the way back to the crusades.......... Deep Breaths People Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:00 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:00 AM GlockWolf Blitzer, a Automatic assault rifle.........Senator from Florida,"Why do we have military style assault weapons available to the public?""Why do we have military style magazines which allow the continued shooting of many""We must stop the availability of these military style weapons to civilians"Glock, now I wonder what caliber of Glock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chislinger Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:24 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:24 AM Heh, looks like the guy arrested in LA was a Bernie Sanders supporter. On February 2 he posted "Looks like if you aren't voting just pick Bernie; because he looks like he isn't a charismatic Hitler. Unlike nearly every other candidate..." on his Facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:28 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:28 AM Now that a muslim has attacked a gay nightclub, maybe the muslim religion will lose its darling status with the left. I'd like to hear what Ben Affleck has to say now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:31 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:31 AM GlockWolf Blitzer, a Automatic assault rifle.........Senator from Florida,"Why do we have military style assault weapons available to the public?""Why do we have military style magazines which allow the continued shooting of many""We must stop the availability of these military style weapons to civilians"Glock, now I wonder what caliber of Glock?Glock 17 http://abcnews.go.com/US/omar-mateen-suspected-orlando-night-club-shooter/story?id=39790797 ..Officials said today he purchased two weapons, a handgun and "long gun," just in the past few days. Law enforcement sources said the weapons used the attacker were a Glock 17 handgun and an AR-style semi-automatic rifle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:37 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:37 AM Trying to understand the timeline. I read an off duty officer was acting as security and the first to engage the killer. While this was going on two on duty officers showed up on scene and exchanged gunfire with the shooter. The killer then went into the club. Then over 100 officers arrived on scene and then it was three hours from the start before law enforcement went in to end it. Everything I have read and lectures that I have sit in state you no longer wait, but you go in quickly to reduce the body count. So I'm trying to figure out what was the delay and why didn't the initial three officers pursue the killer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplant Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:37 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:37 AM Seems worth reposting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhqneAhyJkI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:38 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:38 AM GlockWolf Blitzer, a Automatic assault rifle.........Senator from Florida,"Why do we have military style assault weapons available to the public?""Why do we have military style magazines which allow the continued shooting of many""We must stop the availability of these military style weapons to civilians"Glock, now I wonder what caliber of Glock?Glock 17http://abcnews.go.com/US/omar-mateen-suspected-orlando-night-club-shooter/story?id=39790797..Officials said today he purchased two weapons, a handgun and "long gun," just in the past few days. Law enforcement sources said the weapons used the attacker were a Glock 17 handgun and an AR-style semi-automatic rifle...Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:46 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:46 AM Apples to oranges. Their beliefs are different. Christians who murder nonbelievers go to an eternal inferno. Muslims who murder nonbelievers go to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerus Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:48 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 12:48 AM And the social justice warriors have shown up.Sheesh, how old are you? Might want to learn what the ridiculous cliche term means before randomly throwing it out as an insult towards someone you don't even know. You won't find me defending the BLM groups or supporting any of these ridiculous fads like safe spaces, white privelage, feminazis etc. But I will speak up when an entire religion is bashed because of a few radicals. I know plenty of Muslims - they're just as disgusted by these acts of terrorism as anyone else. This was an ISIS wannabe not some every day Muslim. Would it surprise you to know that ISIS kills more Muslims than non? They kill anyone who doesn't follow their particular view. Doesn't matter what religion they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARFACE Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:01 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:01 AM And the social justice warriors have shown up.Sheesh, how old are you? Might want to learn what the ridiculous cliche term means before randomly throwing it out as an insult towards someone you don't even know. You won't find me defending the BLM groups or supporting any of these ridiculous fads like safe spaces, white privelage, feminazis etc. But I will speak up when an entire religion is bashed because of a few radicals. I know plenty of Muslims - they're just as disgusted by these acts of terrorism as anyone else. This was an ISIS wannabe not some every day Muslim. Would it surprise you to know that ISIS kills more Muslims than non? They kill anyone who doesn't follow their particular view. Doesn't matter what religion they are. I know what the term means but how is it that you think it was directed at you? Thanks for explaining why you are standing up for muslims. Now all you have to do is berate and educate everyone into thinking your way. Why cant Christians and muslims and other religions fight their own battles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RECarry Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:22 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:22 AM Trying to understand the timeline. I read an off duty officer was acting as security and the first to engage the killer. While this was going on two on duty officers showed up on scene and exchanged gunfire with the shooter. The killer then went into the club. Then over 100 officers arrived on scene and then it was three hours from the start before law enforcement went in to end it. Everything I have read and lectures that I have sit in state you no longer wait, but you go in quickly to reduce the body count. So I'm trying to figure out what was the delay and why didn't the initial three officers pursue the killer? Did someone think that protocol required surrendering control of the scene from local to DHS/FBI//DOJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:29 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:29 AM Trying to understand the timeline. I read an off duty officer was acting as security and the first to engage the killer. While this was going on two on duty officers showed up on scene and exchanged gunfire with the shooter.The killer then went into the club. Then over 100 officers arrived on scene and then it was three hours from the start before law enforcement went in to end it.Everything I have read and lectures that I have sit in state you no longer wait, but you go in quickly to reduce the body count.So I'm trying to figure out what was the delay and why didn't the initial three officers pursue the killer? Did someone think that protocol required surrendering control of the scene from local to DHS/FBI//DOJ?Why would you turn it over to the Feds? Initially you have a man shooting, not a known terrorist attack and early on the body count would be low or just occurring, so why wouldn't local authorities continue on handling it and bring it to a quick end? Not knowing all the facts, I can't say what they did was wrong or right, just questions I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakPPI Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:41 AM Share Posted June 13, 2016 at 01:41 AM The three hour delay was due to swat not knowing the layout of the building and concern for explosives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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