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Road rage incident in Streamwood ends with rager dead, dashcam footage


BradS
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Here are some pics from the dashcam footage:

 

2F782C30-241F-4BF3-9304-420E393598E7.jpeg.086a4802735d1d3f04fb6a538f71747c.jpeg

 

here is the link to the Daily Mail article which says the incident happened the past Sunday, February 27th, 2022:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10567301/Chicago-father-two-shot-killed-broad-daylight-road-rage-attack-busy-highway.html

 

Some of the dashcam video is at that link too.

 

just from reading the article, the details on the shooter/Ford Taurus driver seem kind of light.

 

 

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Reaching into another’s car in what looks like a punch possible to the head face area is never a good idea.

the owner he worked for a very good friend states that he has made bad decisions in the past but he was a good man.

during a small part of that interview he say something along the line of, I wish he had stayed in the truck as he made another bad decision.

 

car driver is reported to have valid foid and ccl 

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You can see him punch the guy in the car; just stupid (and cowardly, IMO).  I once knew some poor guy who had someone pounding on his face while he sat helpless in his driver's seat.  He reached into the glovebox for a knife and stabbed his attacker.  Our "justice" system gave him several years in prison for manslaughter.  There are too many psychos on the road these days.  Best to try and drive to a police station and provide them with the rager's license number, if possible.  Of course, if you are stopped at a red light or in traffic, what other option do you have than to defend yourself?  I've also observed that drivers are becomming far more ignorant, selfish and dangerous on our streets since Covid.  My favorite is the A55 who will pull into the left turn lane at a red light, then rush to cut in front of you in the through lane of the intersection.  Why should they wait their turn like everyone else?  Hit your brakes, or you will rear end the idiot, who will then see himself as the "victim," and possibly attempt to physically attack you.

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On 3/2/2022 at 10:00 AM, BradS said:

 

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS

  • At least 21 years old
  • You have a valid Firearm Owner’s Identification card (FOID)
  • You have not been convicted or found guilty of a misdemeanor involving the threat of physical force or violence to any person within the past 5 years
  • You do not have 2 or more violations related to driving while under the influence of alcohol, other drugs, intoxicating compounds within the past 5 years
  • You are not subject to a pending arrest warrant, prosecution or proceeding for an offense or action that could lead to disqualification to own or possess a firearm
  • You have not been in a residential or court-ordered treatment for alcoholism, alcohol detoxification, or drug treatment within the past 5 years
  • Federal law requirements

There is also the question of how an 18 year old got the handgun as federal law prohibits an ffl from transferring it to them. Did they get it from a parent? 

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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

Don't get out of your car, don't reach into someone else's car. Definitely don't punch someone. 

 

I personally would not have stuck around for the guy to be able to walk up to my car let alone reach into it. 

 

I love that the article posts all about the guy, what he does, that he has kids and a wife and yadda yadda yadda. 

 

Quote

The argument now leaves two young girls without a father – and a friend with many unanswered questions.

'If every time someone screws up, if that's the consequence, where are we at?' Polka said. 'What are we left with?'

 

The argument didn't leave two girls without a father, their father left them without him. I also don't know what "many unanswered questions" is. If it's why his friend got shot, it's because he was an a-hole and thought he could bully someone and not face any consequences. If it's anything else, clearly this dude didn't care when he thought he was gonna run up on someone. 

 

This wasn't a screw up either. This was a conscious decision to commit an act of violence, and now everyone is surprised that there was a deadly consequence? Yes this is entirely what we're left with. We're left with "F-around and find out." and "Don't start none, won't be none". 

 

Quote

Those closest to Mattison have said that their friend did not deserve to be suddenly shot and killed on the side of a busy road, no matter what both men were arguing about.

 

Yeah? Did the person in the car deserve to have this dude run up on him and batter him? If dude didn't get shot, who's to say it wouldn't have continued? Or is he saying his boy is a punk and was just gonna run up, sucker punch somebody and take back off? 

 

Quote

When asked if he was stunned by Mattison's involvement in the quarrel, Polka said:  

'I don't know if it surprised me, of if I just – I know if he didn't, he would be here today. Scott made mistakes, he did. He wasn't perfect by any means.'

 

So your friend was a hot head prone to attacking others in fits of rage? 

 

People need to pull their heads out of their hind ends. 

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On 3/2/2022 at 1:34 PM, davel501 said:

...

There is also the question of how an 18 year old got the handgun as federal law prohibits an ffl from transferring it to them. Did they get it from a parent? 

 

A person under 21 can get it legally (under certain conditions, like no previous misdemeanor convictions) via private transfer.

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On 3/2/2022 at 2:14 PM, Bubbacs said:

Murder? 

Feared for his life. Was getting assaulted. Was only defending himself. Sound familiar? The weapon charges will be minimum at best if at all. I know, I know. It should be now called.....

 

The Kenosha Defense

 

Gonna be an uphill climb. Why didn't he drive away? Why was his window down? Why did he have a loaded gun in the passenger compartment even though it was illegal for him to do so? Even if he wins he loses. Nobody is doing a fundraiser for his legal fees. This guy's friends might look to even things up later too.

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On 3/2/2022 at 3:14 PM, Bubbacs said:

... The weapon charges will be minimum at best if at all. ...

 

If he has a FOID and if he had been 21 or over (which he isn't), possession of the (loaded and easily accessible) firearm in the car would have been a class A misdemeanor UUW. Since he's under 21, possession of the firearm in the car was at least a class 4 felony AUUW. It could have been a class 2 felony AUUW if this isn't his first time. (Any age, without a FOID would be the same way.)

 

The UUW law is a wonderful example of how age affects the charge. Legislators went out of their way to write a law that creates young felons, even from ones who jumped through hoops to get a FOID. (Note: We don't yet know which kind of under-21 this guy is.)

 

Even though the possession is a felony, the shooting could still be self-defense, not murder. Even previously-convicted felons can be justified using lethal force in self-defense. That part depends on a bunch of other circumstances we also don't yet know.

 

Edited by Euler
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Plenty of people have been arguing with me that a punch to the face presents lethal force. While there have been cases of people dying from one punch to the face they are incredibly rare. You're going to have an uphill battle convincing a judge or jury that a single punch to the face was an immediate thread of death or great bodily harm. In my opinion, although force was justified, lethal force was not justified. I hope the people who think shooting is an option to defend against a punch, I hope you have self defense insurance. 

One thing is for sure, you win the fight that you're not in and running away is often an option. I'd have popped the curb immediately as this guy approached my vehicle. I would have never rolled my windows down and engaged in an argument. 

Was it worth it? 

Edited by AlphaKoncepts aka CGS
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It sounds like the "victim" instigated this incident.  Someone drove around him, and he chased the other car and blocked it in.  IMO self defense sounds reasonable.  If someone has blocked your car and is punching you, you would have reasonable fear of bodily injury.  But I guess we'll have to wait and see what other details are released.

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On 3/3/2022 at 6:58 AM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said:

Plenty of people have been arguing with me that a punch to the face presents lethal force.

 

Where does it say that self-defense requires "lethal force" to be applied to the victim before they can defend themselves legally?

 

Is there some state law or court ruling? 

 

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Where di

On 3/3/2022 at 8:51 AM, BobPistol said:

 

Where does it say that self-defense requires "lethal force" to be applied to the victim before they can defend themselves legally?

 

Is there some state law or court ruling? 

 

Where did I say you CAN'T defend yourself? 

But since you asked, https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqEnd=9700000&SeqStart=8200000

 

(720 ILCS 5/7-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-1)
    Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person.
    (a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.

 

 

A punch the the face is unjustified force and your use of force is justified to defend. However a reasonable person (prosecutor, judge, and jury) is unlikely to agree that a single punch to the face is force which is intended or likely to cause immediate death or great bodily harm. Therefore ones use of lethal force to defend against a punch to the face wouldn't be justified.
 
If anyone is thinking they're going to shoot someone who punches them, I really hope your self defense insurance is paid up. You're going to need it.
This whole incident has me reminded of the cliche that a man who only owns a hammer looks at every problem as if it were a nail. Not all problems are nails. Not all use of force situations are lethal use of force situations.
 
Also running away is almost always an option. We get bogged down in the discussion of what is legally justified. We are asking ourselves, "can we shoot?" The question we should be asking is "SHOULD we shoot?". Just because it might be legally justified doesn't mean it's always the best course of action. Are we really looking for excuses to take a life? That's sometimes what it seems like in these conversations.
 
The reason I carry is to ensure I sleep in my bed at night. That's the goal. In this case, shooting is contrary to achieving that goal.
 
Id have popped that curb before I'd have unrolled my window and got involved in that argument. Having just typed that paragraph reminds me of the protests of 2020 and a number of students emailed me asking "if blah blah blah blocking my car, can I shoot?" My answer was why? If you felt your lofe was in danger, why not just mash on the gas?
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On 3/3/2022 at 10:11 AM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said:

Where di

Where did I say you CAN'T defend yourself? 

But since you asked, https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqEnd=9700000&SeqStart=8200000

 

(720 ILCS 5/7-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-1)
    Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person.
    (a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.

 

 

A punch the the face is unjustified force and your use of force is justified to defend. However a reasonable person (prosecutor, judge, and jury) is unlikely to agree that a single punch to the face is force which is intended or likely to cause immediate death or great bodily harm. Therefore ones use of lethal force to defend against a punch to the face wouldn't be justified.
 
If anyone is thinking they're going to shoot someone who punches them, I really hope your self defense insurance is paid up. You're going to need it.
This whole incident has me reminded of the cliche that a man who only owns a hammer looks at every problem as if it were a nail. Not all problems are nails. Not all use of force situations are lethal use of force situations.
 
Also running away is almost always an option. We get bogged down in the discussion of what is legally justified. We are asking ourselves, "can we shoot?" The question we should be asking is "SHOULD we shoot?". Just because it might be legally justified doesn't mean it's always the best course of action. Are we really looking for excuses to take a life? That's sometimes what it seems like in these conversations.
 
The reason I carry is to ensure I sleep in my bed at night. That's the goal. In this case, shooting is contrary to achieving that goal.
 
Id have popped that curb before I'd have unrolled my window and got involved in that argument. Having just typed that paragraph reminds me of the protests of 2020 and a number of students emailed me asking "if blah blah blah blocking my car, can I shoot?" My answer was why? If you felt your lofe was in danger, why not just mash on the gas?

 

Yep. Conversations like this always scare me a bit because it feels like there are a lot of people out there looking for an excuse to shoot someone. 

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On 3/3/2022 at 8:27 AM, Xwing said:

It sounds like the "victim" instigated this incident.  Someone drove around him, and he chased the other car and blocked it in.  IMO self defense sounds reasonable.  If someone has blocked your car and is punching you, you would have reasonable fear of bodily injury.  But I guess we'll have to wait and see what other details are released.

It was a kid.  He had some ape-sized psycho of a "grown man" chase him down for going around his car, then blocked hiim in and started punching him in the face through the window.  My guess is that he was likely terrified and didn't know what else to do.  He had trucks in front of and behind him.  This guy started the whole damned thing.  Who doesn't have someone pull something ignorant on them in traffic?  So, that gives some pyscho cart blanche to chase you down, restrict your movement and physically attack you?  He was beating on a helpless, skinny kid, FFS.  He was a flat out bully.  I would also make a very strong argument for unlawful restraint on the part of the "victim" -- a felony.  Yes, he was a father.  Maybe HE should have thought about his kids before doing what he did?

 

I wonder if the facts might show he frightened the kid into an apology, them punched him in the face, anyway.  What then?  Maybe the kid was afraid, panicked and didn't know what else to do?After reading the witness accounts and seeing what I saw, I'm sorry, but I have a hard time seeing the guy as a victim.  His wife and kids, most certainly, are victims.  It might just as easily turn out that the kid mouthed off to him after he blocked him in and got out of his car, the facts will come out at some point, but geez, that guy was every driver's worst nightmare.  And if it does turn out that the kid had some kind of alternative and just decided to shoot the guy, well, he'll get what's coming to him.

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On 3/3/2022 at 11:21 AM, davel501 said:

Yep. Conversations like this always scare me a bit because it feels like there are a lot of people out there looking for an excuse to shoot someone. 

 

Defending oneself doesn't necessarily imply defending oneself with lethal force. Defending oneself with non-lethal force against a non-lethal attack is justified.

 

I'm not a fan of stun guns and tasers, but a stun gun is an option if an attacker is already all the way in your face. Pepper spray is usually a better non-lethal option, but a defender inside a car is going to be pepper spraying himself more than the attacker. For someone stuck in traffic, there may not be any great options.

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On 3/3/2022 at 4:28 PM, Euler said:

 

Defending oneself doesn't necessarily imply defending oneself with lethal force. Defending oneself with non-lethal force against a non-lethal attack is justified.

 

I'm not a fan of stun guns and tasers, but a stun gun is an option if an attacker is already all the way in your face. Pepper spray is usually a better non-lethal option, but a defender inside a car is going to be pepper spraying himself more than the attacker. For someone stuck in traffic, there may not be any great options.

 

This is what I was replying to:

 

Quote

Id have popped that curb before I'd have unrolled my window and got involved in that argument. Having just typed that paragraph reminds me of the protests of 2020 and a number of students emailed me asking "if blah blah blah blocking my car, can I shoot?" My answer was why? If you felt your lofe was in danger, why not just mash on the gas?

 

That said, in this instance it's hard to defend rolling down the window if he was that scared. We can talk about why he didn't deploy his tactical pocket sand (Tactical Pocket Sand 2oz (bigtexordnance.com)) or pepper spray or whatever but he stopped. He rolled down his window. He was part of an escalating conflict. He made no attempt to leave even though it appears his car was in gear since his foot was on the brake. This was just stupidity. I have sympathy for their families but not for them.

 

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People have these hero fantasies of defending themselves from some crazed bad guy. They never consider that history and the legal system might decide it was them. The mall ninja sheepdog fantasies that people have are dangerous. 

 

There's a guy I see around town with one of those "think twice because I won't" with a picture of a gun stickers on the back of his truck. I have witnessed him not practicing basic courtesy when interacting with people in stores on more than one occasion. I keep waiting to see him in the paper claiming self defense after finding another guy just like himself. 

 

I wish people that carry would behave like they aren't carrying a gun and everyone else is. Be polite, avoid conflict and walk away from trouble. 

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On 3/3/2022 at 9:11 AM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said:

 

Where did I say you CAN'T defend yourself? 

 

You implied that one cannot defend yourself with lethal force unless one had lethal force used upon them. 

The law you cited was the one I had in mind - which allows such force if one "reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony."

You only mentioned one facet of that law in your comment and implied it was the only facet. 


 

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On 3/4/2022 at 3:39 PM, Illinois Sucks said:

I am curious who was filming this incident.  It appears to be from inside a vehicle parked behind the white Ford.  Was this person also involved in some way?

 

It looked like a dashcam (or possibly a crop of one) to me. Considering the dead guy parked just behind the shooter, it might have been his own dashcam, which would imply it caught much more of the incident than has been released.

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On 3/4/2022 at 2:51 PM, Euler said:

 

It looked like a dashcam (or possibly a crop of one) to me. Considering the dead guy parked just behind the shooter, it might have been his own dashcam, which would imply it caught much more of the incident than has been released.

But there is an HVAC truck parked in front of the Ford.  Was the Ford surrounded by HVAC trucks?

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On 3/4/2022 at 3:16 PM, Euler said:

 

If the HVAC trucks were on their way to or from the same place, maybe.

 

Yeah..  that is kind of what I am saying.  Was the person filming involved?  Did that person help block the kid in to get him to pull over and then film his buddy harassing the kid?

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