Smallbore Posted March 9, 2022 at 06:26 PM Share Posted March 9, 2022 at 06:26 PM As I understand it, it is the threat of imminent otherwise unavoidable danger of grievous harm or death. Death has occurred from one punch. I am not foolish enough to wait until after I have been injured to finally start my self defense. I will not plays fisticuffs with a male. Sure, a little old lady trying to slap me will not bring a gun in to play, but the same little old lady coming at me with a butch knife will have shots fired assuming I have time. This is why I bite my tongue often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted March 9, 2022 at 07:18 PM Share Posted March 9, 2022 at 07:18 PM On 3/9/2022 at 10:00 AM, Tip said: So one must wait until assault turns into lethal assault to defend one’s self. I see. And what, exactly, constitutes lethal assault — you have a legal definition? "force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm" The same definition applies to both attacker and defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallbore Posted March 11, 2022 at 01:58 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 01:58 PM On 3/9/2022 at 1:18 PM, Euler said: "force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm" The same definition applies to both attacker and defender. The phrase in quotes is incomplete. What follows this phrase in the statute is kind of important. Case case too is important. Bottom line is I have the right to defend myself against a violent attack to stop a violent attack. If necessary I also have the right to defend myself in court. Though to do so in court I must be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davel501 Posted March 11, 2022 at 02:17 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 02:17 PM On 3/11/2022 at 7:58 AM, Smallbore said: The phrase in quotes is incomplete. What follows this phrase in the statute is kind of important. Case case too is important. Bottom line is I have the right to defend myself against a violent attack to stop a violent attack. If necessary I also have the right to defend myself in court. Though to do so in court I must be alive. George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse have shown us that this is a rough path though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted March 11, 2022 at 02:39 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 02:39 PM On 3/11/2022 at 8:17 AM, davel501 said: George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse have shown us that this is a rough path though. They've shown they'd like to see another day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davel501 Posted March 11, 2022 at 04:32 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 04:32 PM On 3/11/2022 at 8:39 AM, Jeffrey said: They've shown they'd like to see another day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallbore Posted March 11, 2022 at 05:02 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 05:02 PM It is wise to understand the legal system's power, it is foolish to not understand your violent attacker's lack of respect for that system and his power to do you serious harm demonstrated by his words and action. It is understood that a victim successfully defending himself, which results in the death of the violent attacker, will likely be placed before a jury, but my murder will likely not be found. I will not voluntarily be carried by six. An injustice in court losing my second amendment right is preferable to losing my life. We all need to pre-think this in our defense plan. It is not my intent to do harm. My intent is to stop my violent attacker from harming me or my family. The outcome is in God's hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted March 11, 2022 at 05:06 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 05:06 PM On 3/11/2022 at 10:32 AM, davel501 said: Definitely something to consider, and what is the fine print of any concealed carry insurance, do they defend all the way or “just the best outcome”? He is correct on how expensive going to court can be. When you start reading certain court cases like contract disputes over let’s say purchasing property, you start to realize what he is talking about, the cases are often involving people with lots money that can afford to pay for appeals and go through trials. The rest of us then get to “use” those cases if we can afford it. Then there is the gamble that your attorney doesn’t suck and half arses it, and whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davel501 Posted March 11, 2022 at 05:15 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 05:15 PM He's got a really good book that walks through all of the considerations down to even maintaining some level of fitness. Violence of Mind: Training and Preparation for Extreme Violence: Freeborn, Varg: 9780578202006: Amazon.com: Books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW Posted March 11, 2022 at 06:54 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 06:54 PM On 3/3/2022 at 7:58 AM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said: Plenty of people have been arguing with me that a punch to the face presents lethal force. While there have been cases of people dying from one punch to the face they are incredibly rare. You're going to have an uphill battle convincing a judge or jury that a single punch to the face was an immediate thread of death or great bodily harm. In my opinion, although force was justified, lethal force was not justified. I hope the people who think shooting is an option to defend against a punch, I hope you have self defense insurance. One thing is for sure, you win the fight that you're not in and running away is often an option. I'd have popped the curb immediately as this guy approached my vehicle. I would have never rolled my windows down and engaged in an argument. Was it worth it? For me, I have to agree. If some road rager exits his vehicle and is heading towards mine, I'm going to do whatever i can to get outta there prior to that person getting to my vehicle. At the same time, I'm hitting 911 on the blower. The best fights I was ever in were on the rink when i was playing hockey at the juniors level.(not quite NHL farm teams) I got my butt whooped a few more times than I'd like to admit, but I've always disliked conflict, and do whatever it takes to avoid it. I like your thinking and mindset, CGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illinois Sucks Posted March 11, 2022 at 07:05 PM Share Posted March 11, 2022 at 07:05 PM Might be an unpopular opinion, but when you pull over to the side of the road, park, open your window while holding your illegally possessed loaded gun, I would assume you are looking to shoot someone.... not defend yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallbore Posted March 12, 2022 at 05:38 PM Share Posted March 12, 2022 at 05:38 PM Some people and the law may see showing a gun to intimidate an attacker into backing off as wrong. I see it as avoiding a violate confrontation which is desirable. Obviously leaving the scene of a conflict when safe to do is smart. Keeping the car window up is prudent. Getting mad over nothing, chasing down the driver, blocking him, getting out walking back to him, reaching into the car to assault the driver can create unintended, undesirable, but predictable results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illinois Sucks Posted March 12, 2022 at 07:51 PM Share Posted March 12, 2022 at 07:51 PM I suspect there was zero chance that the dude the the Ford would have pulled over, parked, rolled down his window and sat there for the idiot chasing him down if he did not have that gun. I would say he got INTO this situation due to having the gun... not out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2A4Cook Posted March 12, 2022 at 11:24 PM Share Posted March 12, 2022 at 11:24 PM All I know is, I take all kinds of crap from bungholes I never would've taken before I got my CCL. Sometimes I feel as if it's a license to be abused, but at least I can defend myself if I ever find myself in the positiion of having my car surrounded, my door opened and people trying to pull me out to beat the heck out of me (which actually happened to me once!). On the positive side, it does tend to keep you out of bad situations, and provides you with a way to save your life should you find yourself in one through no fault of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinois_buckeye Posted March 14, 2022 at 02:04 AM Share Posted March 14, 2022 at 02:04 AM To me, I’ve got my ccl now, but a gun should be the absolute last resort. If I can I want to get out of a situation. The firearm should only come into play when there’s no other option. I just hope I’m never in that position. But in that situation I guess being alive and poor beats being rich and dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim123 Posted March 14, 2022 at 07:34 PM Share Posted March 14, 2022 at 07:34 PM Watch out for that everywhere. Even from the Amazon drivers. Story here https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2022/02/28/clifton-heights-shooting-anthony-jones-amazon-delivery-driver/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted March 14, 2022 at 10:20 PM Share Posted March 14, 2022 at 10:20 PM It didn't take a CCL for me to graciously let an idiot driving badly go his own way... perhaps he is having a really bad day or hasn't figured out how to manage his time. There will never be a reason for me to add to his troubles or compete with such a person by behaving badly myself. I save my own "aggressive db" driving for when it is necessary. It is rarely necessary. Driving to Detroit during a winter storm warning a few weeks back, one such "aggressive db" driver in a 4WD pickup passed a bunch of us during the peak of a lake effect snow squall, slipping and sliding all over the lane you couldn't see any more. The pack of timid drivers gave him room. After traveling a few very slow miles... there he was in the center ditch. Twenty miles further east the weather was clear and I-94 was completely dry with normal speeds. It shouldn't take our power potential to give others a little grace... or the room to run off the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted March 14, 2022 at 11:01 PM Share Posted March 14, 2022 at 11:01 PM Deleted. No pony in this. Carry On! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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