Fraction of 1% of FOID card holders register banned guns in first week

[JTHunter]

On 1/23/2024 at 11:09 AM, soundguy said:

A buddy, who has been establishing an apple orchard in Tennessee, takes nuisance coyote and deer on his property with an AR platform.

On 1/23/2024 at 12:31 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

If you have a nuisance license you can shoot them with whatever the .. you want anytime of the year, It's not unheard of. 

On 1/23/2024 at 1:37 PM, soundguy said:

I suppose my unstated point was - his AR is quite effective, for both species.

 

That maybe but it also depends on the caliber of the platform.  The .223 is fine for smaller game (coyote, groundhog, possum, coon, etc.) but is very likely to be marginal on a deer unless you are close  (50 yds. or less) or a damned good shot (head).

[BrntWS6]

On 1/24/2024 at 9:56 AM, ragsbo said:

Well, most folks down here don't trust (and some just don't like) folks from up state and would not say anything about guns to them since they are considered to be the cause of the problems and they want to take away our guns. (I am NOT saying you are doing that! ) Especially those from around chicago and all. We have learned the hard way not to trust northern folks

I lived in Will and Grundy co for 46 years.  Moved to Franklin co a few years ago.  Everyone down here just assumes you are from cook co and share their views if you say you lived up North when that is far from reality.  People down here are ok, my wife is from here so they accept me for the most part.  There are some upsides like lower taxes, less government regulation and we have land.  But in my time here people are generally more friendly up North.

[John Q Public]

South Il is a completely different state. The further you get from Chicago the less bat-sh8t crazy you have.

[mikeyk101]

On 1/28/2024 at 1:45 PM, John Q Public said:

South Il is a completely different state. The further you get from Chicago the less bat-sh8t crazy you have.

I would love if Southern Illinois actually became another state separate from Springfield and Northern Illinois. I would move from Wisconsin to there in a heartbeat. If it doesn't, no way am I ever living in Illinois again. I made the break to up north and it's way more laid back, I just can't stand the snow and the cold. Luckily, this has been mostly a milder winter except for the last short cold snap and snow storm...

[ragsbo]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:46 AM, BrntWS6 said:

I lived in Will and Grundy co for 46 years.  Moved to Franklin co a few years ago.  Everyone down here just assumes you are from cook co and share their views if you say you lived up North when that is far from reality.  People down here are ok, my wife is from here so they accept me for the most part.  There are some upsides like lower taxes, less government regulation and we have land.  But in my time here people are generally more friendly up North.

Everyone has their own experiences, but I'll take down state folks 

[mab22]

New case being filed today In Effingham county.

(Hopefully someone can find this case at track it in the judicial forum section of IllinoisCarry.)

As I understand it, every citizen has “some” peace officer powers, and you also need a FOID to be a peace officer. Ergo the AWB does not apply, as long as you have a FOID. 🎉

Supposedly there is case law supporting this, which we will see when we get to read the details. 
If they win with this, it’s over! 
 

https://www.effinghamdailynews.com/news/local_news/lawsuit-effingham-county-man-wants-to-be-declared-a-peace-officer-so-he-can-buy/article_0bb89dec-bc82-11ee-9ec8-6fc90b460c8a.html

 

Quote

DeVore’s case said Illinois state law states “any person may arrest another when he has reasonable grounds to believe that an offense other than an ordinance violation is being committed” and that “Holste has been … conferred the power to make arrests for offense just as any peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency.”

The lawsuit further said previous cases have concluded that a “private citizens arrest … easily satisfies the standard of a peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency” and that “a private citizen has virtually the same authority to make an arrest as does a police officer.”

For those reasons, DeVore’s case said Holste has been “statutorily granted the authority to make an arrest similar to those of a peace officer” and is “by definition a peace officer pursuant” to the law.

“For this Court to find otherwise would run counter to each and every decision cited herein … which have held a peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency but acting outside his/her jurisdiction still held the power to arrest as does any ordinary private citizen,” the case said.

 

Edited January 29, 2024 at 12:55 PM by mab22

[crufflesmuth]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:53 AM, mab22 said:

New case being filed today In Effingham county.

(Hopefully someone can find this case at track it in the judicial forum section of IllinoisCarry.)

As I understand it, every citizen has “some” peace officer powers, and you also need a FOID to be a peace officer. Ergo the AWB does not apply, as long as you have a FOID. 🎉

Supposedly there is case law supporting this, which we will see when we get to read the details. 
If they win with this, it’s over! 
 

https://www.effinghamdailynews.com/news/local_news/lawsuit-effingham-county-man-wants-to-be-declared-a-peace-officer-so-he-can-buy/article_0bb89dec-bc82-11ee-9ec8-6fc90b460c8a.html

 

 

 

So they prevail: it means nobody will have qualified immunity. So you have people that get declared "peace" officers, much like Chicago aldermen/women did. 

 

They might satisfy the possession requirements but then you have a potential chance for the state legislature to magically change that.

It is disappointing to see the core second amendment right disregarded like this. I understand why; in lawfare you have to pull out the stops

that hit hardest and fastest. 

 

If they win - I do not know too much about the case law. I would presume the state legislature could 

just re-write the police powers portion so it would only apply to actual peace officers. They

could do that and moot most of this. 

 

Very interesting.

[splitaxe]

@mab22 I don’t see how the state wouldn’t just add an amendment or change the law that defines what a peace officer is as far as an exemption goes.  I would love for it to succeed, but our elected officials will just change the rules at 3am on a Sunday morning in a heartbeat, and Pritzker would run (if he could) to the capitol to sign it. 

[mab22]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:21 PM, crufflesmuth said:

 

So they prevail: it means nobody will have qualified immunity. So you have people that get declared "peace" officers, much like Chicago aldermen/women did. 

 

They might satisfy the possession requirements but then you have a potential chance for the state legislature to magically change that.

It is disappointing to see the core second amendment right disregarded like this. I understand why; in lawfare you have to pull out the stops

that hit hardest and fastest. 

 

If they win - I do not know too much about the case law. I would presume the state legislature could 

just re-write the police powers portion so it would only apply to actual peace officers. They

could do that and moot most of this. 

 

Very interesting.

You don't have to be "declared" a peace officer, any citizen can already be one and make citizens arrest, as it was explained. We need someone to get the case posted so we can see the existing case law. 

Police can also DEMAND you assist them.

Good luck eviscerating that decades old stuff.

 

[mab22]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:25 PM, splitaxe said:

@mab22 I don’t see how the state wouldn’t just add an amendment or change the law that defines what a peace officer is as far as an exemption goes.  I would love for it to succeed, but our elected officials will just change the rules at 3am on a Sunday morning in a heartbeat, and Pritzker would run (if he could) to the capitol to sign it. 

They can, they also know that they will be watched very closely and if they skip a 3 readings rule, or some other required procedure, some attorney is gonna be all over like ______ on _____ .

So why haven't they changed the law to allow for continuous registration?

 

BTW - As far as late registration goes.

My attorney told me that I would be admitting that I registered late, or failed to register within REQUIRED TIME FRAME OF THE LAW, and that it is NOT up the TUBBY in the governors office or the Illinois state police to decide if you are prosecuted or not. States attorney or Judges don't care what Fatty and the ISP "sez".

 

[soundguy]

    (720 ILCS 5/2-13) (from Ch. 38, par. 2-13)
    Sec. 2-13. "Peace officer". "Peace officer" means (i) any person who by virtue of his office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to maintain public order or to make arrests for offenses, whether that duty extends to all offenses or is limited to specific offenses, or (ii) any person who, by statute, is granted and authorized to exercise powers similar to those conferred upon any peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency of this State.
    For purposes of Sections concerning unlawful use of weapons, for the purposes of assisting an Illinois peace officer in an arrest, or when the commission of any offense under Illinois law is directly observed by the person, and statutes involving the false personation of a peace officer, false personation of a peace officer while carrying a deadly weapon, false personation of a peace officer in attempting or committing a felony, and false personation of a peace officer in attempting or committing a forcible felony, then officers, agents, or employees of the federal government commissioned by federal statute to make arrests for violations of federal criminal laws shall be considered "peace officers" under this Code, including, but not limited to, all criminal investigators of:
        (1) the United States Department of Justice, the
        
Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Drug Enforcement Administration and all United States Marshals or Deputy United States Marshals whose duties involve the enforcement of federal criminal laws;
        (1.5) the United States Department of Homeland
        
Security, United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, United States Coast Guard, United States Customs and Border Protection, and United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement;
        (2) the United States Department of the Treasury, the
        
Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, and the United States Secret Service;
        (3) the United States Internal Revenue Service;
        (4) the United States General Services Administration;
        (5) the United States Postal Service;
        (6) (blank); and
        (7) the United States Department of Defense.
(Source: P.A. 102-558, eff. 8-20-21.)

 

[TomKoz]

or (ii) any person who, by statute, is granted and authorized to exercise powers similar to those conferred upon any peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency of this State

[mab22]

On 1/29/2024 at 10:51 PM, TomKoz said:

or (ii) any person who, by statute, is granted and authorized to exercise powers similar to those conferred upon any peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency of this State

AW Snap! Now we have to go determine the legal definition of what similar means. 

🧐 I wonder if it’s similar to what “ the meaning of ‘is’ is”.

Cant recall what President used that phrase and why they used it? 
 

Hey! What’s that song about a devil in a blue dress? 
 

 

[mab22]

Here is the case info - I don’t have an account so I can’t get to the case docs. 
Case # 2024MR2.
https://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL025015J&ocl=IL025015J,2024MR2,IL025015JL2024MR2P2

@Euler

[splitaxe]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:54 PM, mab22 said:

🧐 I wonder if it’s similar to what “ the meaning of ‘is’ is”.

Cant recall what President used that phrase and why they used it? 

 

 

[SiliconSorcerer]

Never forget that...

Clinton when they asked is he having a relationship with Monica.  

Thank God for the blue dress.  

[mab22]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:20 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

Never forget that...

Clinton when they asked is he having a relationship with Monica.  

Thank God for the blue dress.  

I never forgot it because I never understood what the heck he was saying. 

I still look at a dictionary for the word ‘is’ and it doesn’t have multiple meanings, it does involve tense but busted is busted. 

[Upholder]

https://www.gunssavelife.com/2024/01/30/theyre-big-mad-desperate-rep-bob-morgan-et-al-plot-to-spot-check-prolific-gun-buyers-for-compliance-to-pica-gun-registry-after-jan-1st/

[mab22]

On 1/31/2024 at 11:20 AM, Upholder said:

https://www.gunssavelife.com/2024/01/30/theyre-big-mad-desperate-rep-bob-morgan-et-al-plot-to-spot-check-prolific-gun-buyers-for-compliance-to-pica-gun-registry-after-jan-1st/

Interesting process, and lines up with other legal decisions posted as to why LE agencies are not supposed to have direct access to certain info without getting a warrant first. 
 

And can you blame a FFL for not wanting to get “raided” at some strange hour because he refused to just fax it over?

Could the FFL be sued for violating your rights and not requiring a warrant to turn over the data?

Sounds like a lot of 5th amendment “stuff”.

 

[RECarry]

So there is manpower, just not the will to round up gang bangers and known whack-a-doodles who shoot up the streets. Logic of the loony left.

Edited January 31, 2024 at 07:35 PM by RECarry

[yurimodin]

On 1/31/2024 at 11:20 AM, Upholder said:

https://www.gunssavelife.com/2024/01/30/theyre-big-mad-desperate-rep-bob-morgan-et-al-plot-to-spot-check-prolific-gun-buyers-for-compliance-to-pica-gun-registry-after-jan-1st/

 

Come get some........besides I am just wasting away and biding my time waiting for an end to this crushing 30% inflation on top of being in a recession my entire life (minus 2017-2019). Meanwhile they roll out the red carpet to every single person on the planet who is not an average working American. So let's add a little chaos into the mix.

 

 

 

[Illinois Sucks]

On 1/31/2024 at 5:00 PM, yurimodin said:

 

Come get some........besides I am just wasting away and biding my time waiting for an end to this crushing 30% inflation on top of being in a recession my entire life (minus 2017-2019). Meanwhile they roll out the red carpet to every single person on the planet who is not an average working American. So let's add a little chaos into the mix.

 

 

 

This is exactly what they want.  It is a win win situation for them.  The Left cheats and lies their way into a position that puts law abiding citizens at odds against "abiding by laws".  Either the Right follows the laws (giving the Left what they want) or they break the laws (which the left exploits).

 

It is nearly impossible to win against an opponent who cheats....  especially when those that cheat are making the rules to the game.

[yurimodin]

On 2/1/2024 at 6:59 AM, Illinois Sucks said:

 

This is exactly what they want.  It is a win win situation for them.  The Left cheats and lies their way into a position that puts law abiding citizens at odds against "abiding by laws".  Either the Right follows the laws (giving the Left what they want) or they break the laws (which the left exploits).

 

It is nearly impossible to win against an opponent who cheats....  especially when those that cheat are making the rules to the game.

So waive the white flag of victory?

[mauserme]

On 2/1/2024 at 6:59 AM, Illinois Sucks said:

 

This is exactly what they want.  It is a win win situation for them.  The Left cheats and lies their way into a position that puts law abiding citizens at odds against "abiding by laws".  Either the Right follows the laws (giving the Left what they want) or they break the laws (which the left exploits).

 

It is nearly impossible to win against an opponent who cheats....  especially when those that cheat are making the rules to the game.

 

The third possibility, the one closest to reality, is they have no firm idea whether laws have been broken or not.  

 

 

[davel501]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:27 AM, mauserme said:

 

The third possibility, the one closest to reality, is they have no firm idea whether laws have been broken or not.  

 

 

 

Agreed. How can they know how many firearms have been moved out of state or made unserviceable?

[soundguy]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:27 AM, mauserme said:

 

The third possibility, the one closest to reality, is they have no firm idea whether laws have been broken or not. 

 

 

As I have said before... go with what mauserme says.

For all ISP knows, all affected items were, in fact, registered before January 1, 2024.

Exceptions for those who forgot, or did not know, and have registered after the cutoff date.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[Illinois Sucks]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:27 AM, mauserme said:

 

The third possibility, the one closest to reality, is they have no firm idea whether laws have been broken or not.  

 

 

 

I agree that this is the situation that most are in.  Those that are actually "awake" to what is going on, are in one of the other two situations.

 

You bring up a good point and I would also suggest this is by design.  Keep everyone confused.  They can then slam the hammer down on those that are "squeaky wheels" and ignore those who are not making noise.

[mauserme]

On 2/1/2024 at 11:53 AM, Illinois Sucks said:

 

I agree that this is the situation that most are in.  Those that are actually "awake" to what is going on, are in one of the other two situations.

 

You bring up a good point and I would also suggest this is by design.  Keep everyone confused.  They can then slam the hammer down on those that are "squeaky wheels" and ignore those who are not making noise.

 

The "they" I was referring to is the state, but I see your point that most gun owners don't know either.

 

 

[Illinois Sucks]

On 2/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, mauserme said:

 

The "they" I was referring to is the state, but I see your point that most gun owners don't know either.

 

 

 

I would say the ambiguity on the state is a feature and not an accident.  "Pass the bill and we will figure it out" comes to mind.  Alter how you enforce to your liking.

 

 

[skinnyb82]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:59 AM, soundguy said:

Eceptions for those who forgot, or did not know, and have registered after the cutoff date.

I saw an ISP PR somewhere that said just over 5k people registered after January 1. They somehow managed to get a 16% increase just by telling people "we won't prosecute you if you just check this box stating that you didn't register by the January 1 deadline...."