TyGuy Posted February 26, 2014 at 04:48 PM Share Posted February 26, 2014 at 04:48 PM Why would you want to shop somewhere that would seek to disarm you? Surely there are carry friendly alternatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted February 26, 2014 at 05:02 PM Share Posted February 26, 2014 at 05:02 PM My comment was meant more tongue in cheek.. should have purpled it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted February 26, 2014 at 10:09 PM Share Posted February 26, 2014 at 10:09 PM Gateway convention center in Collinsville was posted end of January when I was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted February 26, 2014 at 11:13 PM Share Posted February 26, 2014 at 11:13 PM Please remove First Bankers Trust, Quincy IL (all locations). We convinced them to remove the signs. Great news, I sent them a letter as I have my mortgage there. I added all the Heartland Bank and Trust locations I could find to the posted app, as they were all posted. Now all but one seemed to have removed the signs. I'm going to wait a bit, then give a call to the gentleman I spoke with at corporate and see if they changed policy. I'm hoping my (and possibly others too) previous conversation helped/is helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarf Posted February 26, 2014 at 11:30 PM Share Posted February 26, 2014 at 11:30 PM Yes, we asked. And yes, our insurance is going up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted February 26, 2014 at 11:55 PM Share Posted February 26, 2014 at 11:55 PM Yes, we asked. And yes, our insurance is going up now. Doesn't make sense unless you're authorizing your employees to carry. Your customers behavior cannot be controlled by your insurance company they're using it as a reason to increase your rates that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted February 27, 2014 at 01:56 PM Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 at 01:56 PM Yes, we asked. And yes, our insurance is going up now. If your policy breaks down the cost of liability coverage versus property, I would be interested to know in which section the increase is most significant. I'd guess it's mostly in the property lines. If there is an increase in the liability premium that didn't result from prior claims, ask your agent if prohibiting carry would reduce the cost. I'm not suggesting you should prohibit carry but, if there is no provision for that kind of reduction, then the increase is likely part of a general rate change unrelated to carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted February 27, 2014 at 04:14 PM Share Posted February 27, 2014 at 04:14 PM I saw that RL restaurant on Chicago Ave and Michigan Ave was posted. It's not conspicuous though since they posted it high in a window, mounted in a picture frame, above their business/liquor license, partially covered by an awning/overhang and not on their inner or outer doors. I didn't have any time to stop and drop off a card since I was running late to a meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borgranta Posted February 27, 2014 at 10:53 PM Share Posted February 27, 2014 at 10:53 PM The restaurant likely believes that the bar and restaurant fall within the 50% rule yet understand that the takeout entrance does not and therefore believe that they are abiding by the law by not posting the takeout entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstrom99 Posted February 28, 2014 at 12:10 AM Share Posted February 28, 2014 at 12:10 AM Yes, we asked. And yes, our insurance is going up now. If your policy breaks down the cost of liability coverage versus property, I would be interested to know in which section the increase is most significant. I'd guess it's mostly in the property lines. If there is an increase in the liability premium that didn't result from prior claims, ask your agent if prohibiting carry would reduce the cost. I'm not suggesting you should prohibit carry but, if there is no provision for that kind of reduction, then the increase is likely part of a general rate change unrelated to carry.I work for an insurance company. If you're in a position for decision/input, you could ask your carrier for their actuarial review/rating showing that CCW increases losses... A comparision to Wisconsin would be good, since they're the most recent state to allow CCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teufel Hunden Posted February 28, 2014 at 01:20 AM Share Posted February 28, 2014 at 01:20 AM Yes, we asked. And yes, our insurance is going up now. If your policy breaks down the cost of liability coverage versus property, I would be interested to know in which section the increase is most significant. I'd guess it's mostly in the property lines. If there is an increase in the liability premium that didn't result from prior claims, ask your agent if prohibiting carry would reduce the cost. I'm not suggesting you should prohibit carry but, if there is no provision for that kind of reduction, then the increase is likely part of a general rate change unrelated to carry.I work for an insurance company. If you're in a position for decision/input, you could ask your carrier for their actuarial review/rating showing that CCW increases losses... A comparision to Wisconsin would be good, since they're the most recent state to allow CCW. There is a great deal more latitude for an underwriter in the pricing of a commercial risk. Most rate plans will have several subjective criteria for the underwriter to raise or decrease rates on the policy within a defined percentage range. I would be surprised to find that there is a whole lot of actuarial analysis regarding concealed carry as it relates to pricing insurance. To do that analysis the insurance company would first have to be able to capture the data and have asked for it at the time the application came in. I'd be shocked if the data is sufficient for most carriers to even perform the analysis in a way that has any credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstrom99 Posted February 28, 2014 at 01:50 AM Share Posted February 28, 2014 at 01:50 AM ]Me too. He did mention his rates going up, and I assumed it was only because of allowing CCW. Maybe not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted February 28, 2014 at 02:07 AM Share Posted February 28, 2014 at 02:07 AM At a committee hearing today I showed one of the Cook County SA guys the BWW sign. He said not compliant. And would be hard to prosecute in his judgement. He also thought that the signs posted at less than conspicous locations would be hard to prove as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted February 28, 2014 at 02:26 AM Share Posted February 28, 2014 at 02:26 AM At a committee hearing today I showed one of the Cook County SA guys the BWW sign. He said not compliant. And would be hard to prosecute in his judgement. He also thought that the signs posted at less than conspicous locations would be hard to prove as well Now we just need to figure put the"strike zone" for what conspicuous means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstrom99 Posted February 28, 2014 at 03:50 PM Share Posted February 28, 2014 at 03:50 PM Apparently, there is a parking garage on E. Randolph St, in Chicago that is posted. Didn't stop this guy. Tribune has a story and pic of the doorway here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-police-man-dead-of-selfinflicted-gunshot-in-loop-garage-20140227,0,3603263.story Looks like a self inflected GSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry52 Posted February 28, 2014 at 10:14 PM Share Posted February 28, 2014 at 10:14 PM Marathon gas station (rock corner) IL 173 and wilmont road Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdnshoots Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:32 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:32 PM Seigle's Cabinet Center has posted in Elgin. Sent them an email. His reply: Warren, The best part about America is our diversity and our tolerance. Appear you and I will have to disagree about Concealed Carry. That shouldn't discredit us a the best source for your cabinetry and countertop needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinleyparkgoodguy Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:49 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:49 PM A gas station?i am goin hit my cancel button! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scots Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:52 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:52 PM Seigle's Cabinet Center has posted in Elgin. Sent them an email. His reply: Warren, The best part about America is our diversity and our tolerance. Appear you and I will have to disagree about Concealed Carry. That shouldn't discredit us a the best source for your cabinetry and countertop needs. How I would respond: "Actually, I agree with you completely. Diversity and tolerance are critical. Unfortunately, your intolerance of my Constitutional rights means that you will not allow me to patronize your business. Should you choose to be more tolerant of basic, inalienable rights in the future, I will gladly come back. As for now, you've been added to the our app so that gun owners around the state will know to steer clear. Best regards," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonDescript Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:56 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 03:56 PM Seigle's Cabinet Center has posted in Elgin. Sent them an email. His reply: Warren, The best part about America is our diversity and our tolerance. Appear you and I will have to disagree about Concealed Carry. That shouldn't discredit us a the best source for your cabinetry and countertop needs. Maybe you could provide his email address here so those of us in the area could drop him a quick note letting him know that we agree with his views on "diversity" and that's why we'll be taking our business to his competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:05 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:05 PM wasn't a guy named seigle runing for office once upon a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadyRunner Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:15 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:15 PM I used seigles for cabinetry in my current home. I'm buying a new home in a couple if months - will need many new cabinets and counters (doors as well). I'll make sure to mail them a copy of my receipt from a competitor with a note as to why they didn't get my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadyRunner Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:17 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:17 PM Actually, I'll call them for a quote first. Then call them back after I cannot enter their property to pay - due to the sign. THEN send them the receipt from a competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomG Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:36 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:36 PM Actually, I'll call them for a quote first. Then call them back after I cannot enter their property to pay - due to the sign. THEN send them the receipt from a competitor. WAY better way to make the point. Let them do all the work and drool at the profit they'll make off you, then "notice" the sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdnshoots Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:59 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 04:59 PM wasn't a guy named seigle runing for office once upon a time?Harry Seigle. Ran unsuccessfully for comptroller (Republican) in 98. Same family as the owner of Seigles Cabinet. I liked what Scots had to say about a reply, so I used it as a jumping off point. Here's how I ended up responding:"Actually, I agree with you completely. Diversity and tolerance are critical. Unfortunately, your sign shows intolerance of a basic Constitutional right. That does not discredit you in regards to possibly being the best source for my cabinetry and countertop needs, but in this case, it's the principle, not the money that is driving my decision to choose not to do business with you. It's not unlike my decision to not go with Cabinets to Go ... they were able to beat the big box stores' price, but when I learned their cabinets are made in China, I chose not to go with them because I believe in America first. I would definitely prefer to do business with a local company rather than a big box store, but not at the expense of my principles. If that means going to a big box store that has not posted a no ccw sign, so be it. Again, if you decide to remove your sign in the near future, please let me know and I would be happy to patronize your business. As for now, you've been added to the Posted list at illinoiscarry.com so that other gun owners in the area will know to steer clear.Thank you for taking time to respond."Here's the link to their "contact us" page if you would like to also respectfully express your opinion: http://seigles.com/contact-us/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdnshoots Posted March 1, 2014 at 05:19 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 05:19 PM I used seigles for cabinetry in my current home. I'm buying a new home in a couple if months - will need many new cabinets and counters (doors as well). I'll make sure to mail them a copy of my receipt from a competitor with a note as to why they didn't get my business.Actually, I'll call them for a quote first. Then call them back after I cannot enter their property to pay - due to the sign. THEN send them the receipt from a competitor. WAY better way to make the point. Let them do all the work and drool at the profit they'll make off you, then "notice" the sign. I feel it might be better to be upfront with why I am not willing to do business with them, opening conversation and possibly changing their minds. RoadyRunner, if you've already done business with them, you might consider telling them that and then telling them why you feel you cannot do business with them again, and see if they're willing to keep your business. Just my two cents ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted March 1, 2014 at 09:09 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 09:09 PM get the quote then staple a no guns no money card to it and mail it back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted March 1, 2014 at 09:56 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 09:56 PM Wouldn't insurance companies be up for a lawsuit for raising the rates for a company which is only allowing a constitutional right in their store? If anything, rates should go up for those who advertise to criminals that no one will stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted March 1, 2014 at 10:12 PM Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 10:12 PM Insurance companies have, with some exceptions, historically been allowed a degree of legal discrimination in setting their rates. Young drivers, for example, are often charged more for car insurance than older drivers because statistics show the less experienced are more likely to have an accident. I'm aware of one case, however, where a class action suit was brought against an insurer who increased the premium when a young driver was added, and the policy failed to include wording stating that rates may change for this and other changes in risk. Commercial policies have much more pricing flexibility than personal policies but, if an increase was based on assumption rather than statistics, I could see a possibility of something like that. It wouldn't be easy, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted March 1, 2014 at 10:52 PM Share Posted March 1, 2014 at 10:52 PM I liked what Scots had to say about a reply, so I used it as a jumping off point. Here's how I ended up responding:"Actually, I agree with you completely. Diversity and tolerance are critical. Unfortunately, your sign shows intolerance of a basic Constitutional right. That does not discredit you in regards to possibly being the best source for my cabinetry and countertop needs, but in this case, it's the principle, not the money that is driving my decision to choose not to do business with you. It's not unlike my decision to not go with Cabinets to Go ... they were able to beat the big box stores' price, but when I learned their cabinets are made in China, I chose not to go with them because I believe in America first. I would definitely prefer to do business with a local company rather than a big box store, but not at the expense of my principles. If that means going to a big box store that has not posted a no ccw sign, so be it. Again, if you decide to remove your sign in the near future, please let me know and I would be happy to patronize your business. As for now, you've been added to the Posted list at illinoiscarry.com so that other gun owners in the area will know to steer clear. Thank you for taking time to respond." Here's the link to their "contact us" page if you would like to also respectfully express your opinion: http://seigles.com/contact-us/Great letter! Let us know if he responds. Actually, I'll call them for a quote first. Then call them back after I cannot enter their property to pay - due to the sign. THEN send them the receipt from a competitor. That's the best way, IMO. You let them know in actual $$ what their poorly-thought-out decision to post will cost them right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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