Illinois Gun Law Outsmarted?

[mauserme]

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/10/will-illinois-gun-owners-be-forced-to-forfeit-their-2nd-amendment-rights/

 

Will Illinois Gun Owners be Forced to Forfeit Their 2nd Amendment Rights?

Ammoland Inc. Posted on October 11, 2023 by Dan Wos

 

As of January 1, 2024, a new law goes into effect that will directly punish Illinois gun owners for exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. The new law is called the “Protect Illinois Communities Act” (PICA).
...
What exactly does that mean?  It means the semi-automatic rifle you've owned for years and enjoyed legally has now been deemed illegal and dangerous to society by politicians.
...
What if there was a product that would take your AR out of the "assault weapons" category?
The brilliant minds at a company called Kali Key have created a product that transforms the AR into a manually operated bolt action rifle without requiring any permanent modifications.

...

Attorney David Sigale, who wrote an opinion on Kali Key, identified four primary benefits of the Kali Key in the State of Illinois:

No Registration Requirement: If an Illinois resident lawfully owns an assault weapon as of January 10, 2023, that firearm may be kept so long as it is registered by January 1, 2024. The installation of the Kali Key, removing the firearm from the definition of an assault weapon, should eliminate the registration requirement.

Acquiring New Firearms: If a purchaser of an AR platform firearm is able to have the Kali Key installed before legally purchasing and taking possession of the firearm, then the end user would not be purchasing/receiving a prohibited firearm.

FFL Survival: An FFL can utilize the Kali Key to produce (Type 07) or import new AR platform firearms for sale in Illinois, provided they originate as bolt-action firearms via the Kali Key. If purchased before the January 10, 2023 cutoff, FFLs can convert their AR-15 inventory into bolt-action via the Kali Key for sale in Illinois.

Facilitate Legal Transfers: “Assault weapons” owned legally before January 10, 2023, can be kept if registered but not transferred within Illinois. Installing the Kali Key and removing the firearm from the definition of an “assault weapon” should remove that restriction.
...

The folks at Kali Key recognize that this product may only be a placeholder until semi-automatic rifle bans can be defeated in blue states. Shea McQuestion, a Kali Key Representative even said, “We recognize that with every court victory we help fund, we are one step closer to making the Kali Key obsolete.”

 

 

 

 

[South Side 27]

Nice. But the other banned features like pistol grip, adjustable stock and flash suppressor would still make them illegal in Illinois. Not to mention the specific models that are called out in the law.  The gun grabbers thought of this already.  

[Vodoun da Vinci]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:13 PM, South Side 27 said:

Nice. But the other banned features like pistol grip, adjustable stock and flash suppressor would still make them illegal in Illinois. Not to mention the specific models that are called out in the law.  The gun grabbers thought of this already.  

 But if the weapon is legally a "Bolt Action" none of that other stuff matters. Only if it is "semi auto" does the other cosmetic goodies make it an assault weapon.

 

VooDoo

[davel501]

You'd still have to store your BCGs and spare parts out of state but this is a nice solution. Storing BCGs is a lot easier/requires a lot less trust or security than the full rifles.

 

[mauserme]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:51 PM, davel501 said:

You'd still have to store your BCGs and spare parts out of state but this is a nice solution. Storing BCGs is a lot easier/requires a lot less trust or security than the full rifles.

 

 

Isn't there a saying like "out of state, out of mind" ?  

 

It's something like that.  

 

 

 

 

[DoYouFeelLucky]

A belt-fed bolt action would be the ticket!

 

[solareclipse2]

I had to look up "Kali Key". I wonder who's getting kickbacks from that.

[EdDinIL]

How long until the state sues Kali Key for its customer list?

[solareclipse2]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:22 AM, EdDinIL said:

How long until the state sues Kali Key for its customer list?

 

or will the state even have to sue? Maybe they're the type of group that just needs a vaguely worded letter on some official looking letterhead.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 10/17/2023 at 7:59 AM, solareclipse2 said:

I had to look up "Kali Key". I wonder who's getting kickbacks from that.

Me to sounded like supermans ...

[Quiet Observer]

On 10/17/2023 at 7:59 AM, solareclipse2 said:

I had to look up "Kali Key". I wonder who's getting kickbacks from that.

Why would anyone be getting kickbacks?

[yurimodin]

[crufflesmuth]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:41 PM, mauserme said:

https://www.ammoland.com/2023/10/will-illinois-gun-owners-be-forced-to-forfeit-their-2nd-amendment-rights/

 

Will Illinois Gun Owners be Forced to Forfeit Their 2nd Amendment Rights?

Ammoland Inc. Posted on October 11, 2023 by Dan Wos

 

As of January 1, 2024, a new law goes into effect that will directly punish Illinois gun owners for exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. The new law is called the “Protect Illinois Communities Act” (PICA).
...
What exactly does that mean?  It means the semi-automatic rifle you've owned for years and enjoyed legally has now been deemed illegal and dangerous to society by politicians.
...
What if there was a product that would take your AR out of the "assault weapons" category?
The brilliant minds at a company called Kali Key have created a product that transforms the AR into a manually operated bolt action rifle without requiring any permanent modifications.

...

Attorney David Sigale, who wrote an opinion on Kali Key, identified four primary benefits of the Kali Key in the State of Illinois:

No Registration Requirement: If an Illinois resident lawfully owns an assault weapon as of January 10, 2023, that firearm may be kept so long as it is registered by January 1, 2024. The installation of the Kali Key, removing the firearm from the definition of an assault weapon, should eliminate the registration requirement.

Acquiring New Firearms: If a purchaser of an AR platform firearm is able to have the Kali Key installed before legally purchasing and taking possession of the firearm, then the end user would not be purchasing/receiving a prohibited firearm.

FFL Survival: An FFL can utilize the Kali Key to produce (Type 07) or import new AR platform firearms for sale in Illinois, provided they originate as bolt-action firearms via the Kali Key. If purchased before the January 10, 2023 cutoff, FFLs can convert their AR-15 inventory into bolt-action via the Kali Key for sale in Illinois.

Facilitate Legal Transfers: “Assault weapons” owned legally before January 10, 2023, can be kept if registered but not transferred within Illinois. Installing the Kali Key and removing the firearm from the definition of an “assault weapon” should remove that restriction.
...

The folks at Kali Key recognize that this product may only be a placeholder until semi-automatic rifle bans can be defeated in blue states. Shea McQuestion, a Kali Key Representative even said, “We recognize that with every court victory we help fund, we are one step closer to making the Kali Key obsolete.”

 

 

 

 

 

Until I see on the wall of a gun store I will presume it's not. There is also the question of the lower and upper receiver.

[cnwfan3]

Does anyone own one of these (Kali Key setups)?  Just wondering how they work.  What are the chances IL-ANNOY will accept an AR15 with one installed as a bolt action gun?  At one point I looked at the Troy PAR pump action ARs, but it look like they are no longer being made.

[Euler]

I don't own one, but it's just a bolt with the carrier key removed/plugged, so you have to cycle it manually.

I doubt it would "outsmart" PICA. An AR with a Kali Key could still be "readily converted" to semi-auto by putting a regular bolt back in, like the original bolt you took out to put the Kali Key bolt in.

Afterthought: If a Kali Key bolt satisfies PICA (IMO it doesn't, but hypothetically), then just removing the gas block and tube from an AR would satisfy PICA, too.

Edited October 25, 2023 at 09:30 PM by Euler

[davel501]

On 10/25/2023 at 4:20 PM, Euler said:

I don't own one, but it's just a bolt with the carrier key removed/plugged, so you have to cycle it manually.

I doubt it would "outsmart" PICA. An AR with a Kali Key could still be "readily converted" to semi-auto by putting a regular bolt back in, like the original bolt you took out to put the Kali Key bolt in.

Afterthought: If a Kali Key bolt satisfies PICA (IMO it doesn't, but hypothetically), then just removing the gas block and tube from an AR would satisfy PICA, too.
 

 

By that logic, just about any semi-automatic pistol is readily converted into an assault weapon by buying a threaded barrel and swapping it in. 

 

Can it be readily convertible if you can't buy the parts?

Edited October 25, 2023 at 09:47 PM by davel501

[Euler]

On October 25, 2023 at 04:46 PM, davel501 said:→

By that logic, just about any semi-automatic pistol is readily converted into an assault weapon by buying a threaded barrel and swapping it in.

Can it be readily convertible if you can't buy the parts?

Yes and, technically, yes. I have every faith that they'll "reinterpret" the law to get there eventually.

Meanwhile, the law specifically says threaded barrels are illegal. It doesn't even try to say gas systems are illegal (as long as you register -- most of -- the weapons that have them). Most online places won't sell gas blocks or even castle nuts into Illinois at this point, anyway, so PICA might as well have said that gas systems are illegal. (There's a thread about crush washers around here somewhere.)

Should they have tried to outlaw ported barrels, instead?

I think pointing out their stupidity in the law quickly gets into the arena of fixing their stupid law.

[DoYouFeelLucky]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:09 PM, DoYouFeelLucky said:

A belt-fed bolt action would be the ticket!

 

I was joking about this, however found out this weekend that a local custom gunsmith has made one to fit on an AR lower.

[Euler]

On October 25, 2023 at 04:20 PM CDT, Euler said:→

...
Afterthought: If a Kali Key bolt satisfies PICA (IMO it doesn't, but hypothetically), then just removing the gas block and tube from an AR would satisfy PICA, too.

TIL: California Code of Regulations

CCR Title 11, Section 5471 said:→

...

(hh) "Semiautomatic" means a firearm functionally able to fire a single cartridge, eject the empty case, and reload the chamber each time the trigger is pulled and released. Further, certain necessary mechanical parts that will allow a firearm to function in a semiautomatic nature must be present for a weapon to be deemed semiautomatic. A weapon clearly designed to be semiautomatic but lacking a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas tube, or some other crucial part of the firearm is not semiautomatic for purposes of Penal Code sections 30515, 30600, 30605(a), and 30900.

...

... not that CA code would apply in IL, but it's why the Kali Key legally "works" in CA ... or just remove the gas tube, but I don't think that'll work in IL.

[cnwfan3]

Anyone see this?

 

https://uintahprecision.com/product/upr15/

 

A true bolt action upper for an AR15.  Anyone think IL-ANNOY would accept this as a bolt action gun?  Seems like this would meet the requirement of not being a semi-auto.

[Euler]

I think the killer words in PICA is the ban on "any combination of parts from which an assault weapon may be readily assembled." The lower is still one such part.

[John Q Public]

Here's another thing that dings users of some semis. I can no longer buy anything more than a 10 round mag for my semi EDC, nor use the ones I have because they are stock 17rounds. Since my mags also fit a carbine...  you are limited by the 10 round capacity on rifles. I'll be damned if I'm going to go to 10 round mags.  fubar

 

Also, some semis don't have the option of 15 round mags, so those are limited to 10 as well.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 at 07:08 PM by John Q Public

[solareclipse2]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:06 PM, John Q Public said:

Here's another thing that dings users of some semis. I can no longer buy anything more than a 10 round mag for my semi EDC, nor use the ones I have because they are stock 17rounds. Since my mags also fit a carbine...  you are limited by the 10 round capacity on rifles. I'll be damned if I'm going to go to 10 round mags.  fubar

 

Also, some semis don't have the option of 15 round mags, so those are limited to 10 as well.

 

 

 

The P365 X-Macro doesn't even have magazines other than the 17 round magazines it came with. Magazines with any other capacity, that fit other P365 models do not fit the X-Macro. Not sure what those guys are supposed to do.

[John Q Public]

I hear you brother....    snafu-bar.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 at 08:18 PM by John Q Public

[Tvandermyde]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:21 PM, Euler said:

I think the killer words in PICA is the ban on "any combination of parts from which an assault weapon may be readily assembled." The lower is still one such part.

 He is right and they confirmed that view today on attachments at the hearing

[DoYouFeelLucky]

That belt fed bolt action is becoming more and more viable!  No magazine at all, has to be manually cycled between trigger pulls, but can still be fired about as fast as you can pull the trigger with a straight pull bolt.

[Yeti]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:46 PM, DoYouFeelLucky said:

That belt fed bolt action is becoming more and more viable!  No magazine at all, has to be manually cycled between trigger pulls, but can still be fired about as fast as you can pull the trigger with a straight pull bolt.

If you’re going to go belt fed, manually cycled, why use a bolt?

https://tippmannordnance.com/22lr-gatling-gun/

[DoYouFeelLucky]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:04 AM, Yeti said:

If you’re going to go belt fed, manually cycled, why use a bolt?

https://tippmannordnance.com/22lr-gatling-gun/

Because, Illinois.

[Yeti]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:48 AM, DoYouFeelLucky said:

Because, Illinois.

I get that but, even in this sucks-to-be-gun-owner state, you still may not need a bolt on some belt feds.  Cannot find where a manually cycled, belt fed Gatling -style gun is illegal (yet).