Hipshot Percussion Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:33 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:33 AM If no one walked in and registered their weapons, would the State be able to move against gun owners by using their CCL / FOID card as a reason to apply for a Warrant for a search and seizure? I realize just having a CCL or FOID doesn't mean you own a gun, but would a Judge sign the dotted line under the guise of "public safety" while using the CCL / FOID as the "probable" part of "probable cause?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twostarrz Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:39 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:39 AM Do you believe that Illinois respects any rights? No longer will otherwise law abiding citizens be presumed innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yas Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:44 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:44 AM You couldn't register anything that are already banned say In Chicago, Cook County, and other places that contend they are more special than other parts of the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted January 29, 2019 at 01:27 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 01:27 AM If no one walked in and registered their weapons, would the State be able to move against gun owners by using their CCL / FOID card as a reason to apply for a Warrant for a search and seizure? I realize just having a CCL or FOID doesn't mean you own a gun, but would a Judge sign the dotted line under the guise of "public safety" while using the CCL / FOID as the "probable" part of "probable cause?"I dont expect registration compliance to be any better here than it has been elsewhere in the country. I guess the question becomes if they decide to aggressively pursue or ignore arresting and making owners felons (in that case, whats the point) Perhaps I'm naive, but I'd like to think judges havent devolved to that level yet and would recognize exactly as you said...having a FOID or CCL means nothing in regard to gun ownership and unless you were posting something that might trigger the red flag laws, they would not sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots & Tyrants Posted January 29, 2019 at 02:31 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 02:31 AM Multiple courts have ruled in other states a gun permit is not probable cause for a search. Unless they revoke your FOID, if it was used as the sole basis for a search warrant you'd probably get it thrown out in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defaultdotxbe Posted January 29, 2019 at 05:01 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 05:01 AM You couldn't register anything that are already banned say In Chicago, Cook County, and other places that contend they are more special than other parts of the state. Wouldn't it be a violation of 5th amendment rights? If someone owns something that is already banned then forcing them to register is amounts to mandatory self-incrimination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 29, 2019 at 05:06 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 05:06 AM You couldn't register anything that are already banned say In Chicago, Cook County, and other places that contend they are more special than other parts of the state. Wouldn't it be a violation of 5th amendment rights? If someone owns something that is already banned then forcing them to register is amounts to mandatory self-incrimination I wonder if they’ll grant amnesty for this LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired1 Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:18 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:18 AM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:40 AM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:40 AM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimes They’re just getting the newly “illegal” guns off the street, the Moms and mayors will rejoice, etc............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G214me Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:59 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 12:59 PM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimesIf this did happen a person would not have to prove they moved them out of state, nothing in the bill says you have to prove anything about moving them out of state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted January 29, 2019 at 04:59 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 04:59 PM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimesIf this did happen a person would not have to prove they moved them out of state, nothing in the bill says you have to prove anything about moving them out of state. Even if they said you have to prove you moved them out of state how would you do it? Would you have to invite the ISP to your out of state location and open it to ISP inspection? Not sure how much authority the ISP has to search property in Indiana or Wisconsin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylentgreen Posted January 29, 2019 at 05:42 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 05:42 PM How long until the first cop is shot dead trying to enforce this? When gun owners get wind of mass searches and confiscations, some of them will be sitting in the dark with a loaded gun waiting for the cops to come to their door. Is this the "safe" state they're trying to create...? Completely and utterly STUPID! We had better be ready to fight this in court...all the way to the SCOTUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzimike66 Posted January 29, 2019 at 06:08 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 06:08 PM Would Haynes vs United States come into play in this instance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haynes_v._United_States You couldn't register anything that are already banned say In Chicago, Cook County, and other places that contend they are more special than other parts of the state. Wouldn't it be a violation of 5th amendment rights? If someone owns something that is already banned then forcing them to register is amounts to mandatory self-incrimination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots & Tyrants Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:07 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:07 PM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimesIf this did happen a person would not have to prove they moved them out of state, nothing in the bill says you have to prove anything about moving them out of state. Refuse to allow any law enforcement into your home without a warrant, refuse any searches of your vehicle without a warrant, clean up your social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:08 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:08 PM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimesIIRC you are only required to keep private disposition records for 10 years. After that...anything might have happened such as you lost them, don't remember, dog ate them, etc. ..."(b ) Any person within this State who transfers or causes to be transferred any firearm, stun gun, or taser shall keep a record of such transfer for a period of 10 years from the date of transfer. Such record shall contain the date of the transfer; the description, serial number or other information identifying the firearm, stun gun, or taser if no serial number is available; and, if the transfer was completed within this State, the transferee's Firearm Owner's Identification Card number and any approval number or documentation provided by the Department of State Police pursuant to subsection (a-10) of this Section; if the transfer was not completed within this State, the record shall contain the name and address of the transferee. On or after January 1, 2006, the record shall contain the date of application for transfer of the firearm. On demand of a peace officer such transferor shall produce for inspection such record of transfer. If the transfer or sale took place at a gun show, the record shall include the unique identification number. Failure to record the unique identification number or approval number is a petty offense. For transfers of a firearm, stun gun, or taser made on or after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 100th General Assembly, failure by the private seller to maintain the transfer records in accordance with this Section is a Class A misdemeanor for the first offense and a Class 4 felony for a second or subsequent offense. A transferee shall not be criminally liable under this Section provided that he or she provides the Department of State Police with the transfer records in accordance with procedures established by the Department. The Department shall establish, by rule, a standard form on its website."... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G214me Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:24 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:24 PM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimesIf this did happen a person would not have to prove they moved them out of state, nothing in the bill says you have to prove anything about moving them out of state. Even if they said you have to prove you moved them out of state how would you do it? Would you have to invite the ISP to your out of state location and open it to ISP inspection? Not sure how much authority the ISP has to search property in Indiana or Wisconsin. ISP has no authority out of state and I doubt LEA's around the country would be very willing to use money and man power playing with Illinois nonsense like this. Again, any letter from ISP needs only to inform them that in compliance with the new ban you have removed the items to a state with no ban and the items will never be in Illinois again. nowhere does the law say you must prove they're out of state. Invite the ISP officer to visit your buddies remote mountain cabin in Idaho to see the guns safely stored , tell them it's only a 6 mile rugged hike from the dirt road and if the creek isn't running high it's not that bad. ( the whole last part was supposed to be in purple ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird76Mojo Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:57 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 07:57 PM The new gun dealer Licence bill, Allows Law enforcement to inspect records!!! They will hire more ISP and send them to every Gun dealer in the state! They will scan every ATF 4473. They will input into a data base. If your FOID expires. You will get a letter to turn in the guns you did not register. If you don't turn them in a warrant will be issued for your arrest. Well you say I sold then, gave them away, transferred out of state. You better have a record of where they went!! They have you unless you do send them out of state!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will get a few at a time. Oh your county is a sanctuary county? The New IL attorney general hates guns, He will prosecute the gun crimesIf this did happen a person would not have to prove they moved them out of state, nothing in the bill says you have to prove anything about moving them out of state. Refuse to allow any law enforcement into your home without a warrant, refuse any searches of your vehicle without a warrant, clean up your social media. Don't forget to refuse any "knock and talk" tactics. If it happens, talk through the door. Never open either the inside or outside door to your home. Just tell them to contact your attorney. You're under no obligation to talk to the police and have the right to remain silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defaultdotxbe Posted January 29, 2019 at 11:42 PM Share Posted January 29, 2019 at 11:42 PM You couldn't register anything that are already banned say In Chicago, Cook County, and other places that contend they are more special than other parts of the state. Wouldn't it be a violation of 5th amendment rights? If someone owns something that is already banned then forcing them to register is amounts to mandatory self-incrimination Would Haynes vs United States come into play in this instance? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haynes_v._United_StatesThat's exactly what I was thinking. You could still be charged under the local law for possessing a banned "assault weapon" but that would only be a misdemeanor rather than the felony of failing to register your "assault weapon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted January 30, 2019 at 12:27 AM Share Posted January 30, 2019 at 12:27 AM If this did happen a person would not have to prove they moved them out of state, nothing in the bill says you have to prove anything about moving them out of state. That right there. I could put all of my banned guns (if I owned any) in a safe at a family member's house out of state. No actual "transfer," or record thereof, would be required. ISP has zero authority over property you own outside of Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted January 30, 2019 at 12:32 AM Share Posted January 30, 2019 at 12:32 AM You don't have to move them out of state. Just move them to one of the sanctuary counties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird76Mojo Posted January 30, 2019 at 02:07 AM Share Posted January 30, 2019 at 02:07 AM http://gunrightswatch.com/clientuploads/sanctuary_counties/ilnames20180816.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G214me Posted January 30, 2019 at 02:34 AM Share Posted January 30, 2019 at 02:34 AM You don't have to move them out of state. Just move them to one of the sanctuary counties. http://gunrightswatch.com/clientuploads/sanctuary_counties/ilnames20180816.pngIn the sanctuary county the Sheriff and local cops may not lift a finger and totally agree with you but the ISP still has jurisdiction and could show up for an arrest. a persons only hope would be a sanctuary county prosecutor who refuses to prosecute the case. if we had a bunch of States Attorneys who refused to prosecute that would be solid gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird76Mojo Posted January 30, 2019 at 02:56 AM Share Posted January 30, 2019 at 02:56 AM You don't have to move them out of state. Just move them to one of the sanctuary counties. http://gunrightswatch.com/clientuploads/sanctuary_counties/ilnames20180816.pngIn the sanctuary county the Sheriff and local cops may not lift a finger and totally agree with you but the ISP still has jurisdiction and could show up for an arrest. a persons only hope would be a sanctuary county prosecutor who refuses to prosecute the case. if we had a bunch of States Attorneys who refused to prosecute that would be solid gold. Todd posted about this today. Getting sheriff's and SA's on board for a deeper commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurimodin Posted January 30, 2019 at 05:05 PM Share Posted January 30, 2019 at 05:05 PM map needs updated.....Richland county is a sanctuary https://www.freedom929.com/2018/11/06/richland-county-election/# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted January 30, 2019 at 06:45 PM Share Posted January 30, 2019 at 06:45 PM Someone needs to ask the folks writing these bills if the same registry will be used for the law abiding as well as the bangers. If I were to be registering mine, I’d prefer to be in a different grouping. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defaultdotxbe Posted January 31, 2019 at 01:28 AM Share Posted January 31, 2019 at 01:28 AM Someone needs to ask the folks writing these bills if the same registry will be used for the law abiding as well as the bangers. If I were to be registering mine, I’d prefer to be in a different grouping. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSince its already illegal for gang members to own firearms (at least in Cook County) the registration is unenforceable against them (5th amendment issue, discussed above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcc Posted January 31, 2019 at 06:02 AM Share Posted January 31, 2019 at 06:02 AM Last map I updated. Not sure much has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKS-74U Posted February 27, 2019 at 03:24 PM Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 03:24 PM On the subject of compliance, if a person has firearms on the NFRTR what options do they have? If you don't register (again) they'll know. if you say you've moved them out of state, they could easily request from batfe the approved form 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricolor Posted February 27, 2019 at 03:36 PM Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 03:36 PM Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think we should step back and take a breath on this one. As far as I can see there is no funding for ISP to set up a task force to go door to door searching for weapons. Just like I do not see how the ISP is going to be able to pay for its brand shiny new "dealer licensing" obligations. Furthermore, just having a FOID card is not probable cause of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKS-74U Posted February 27, 2019 at 03:58 PM Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 03:58 PM Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think we should step back and take a breath on this one. As far as I can see there is no funding for ISP to set up a task force to go door to door searching for weapons. Just like I do not see how the ISP is going to be able to pay for its brand shiny new "dealer licensing" obligations. Furthermore, just having a FOID card is not probable cause of anything. Just having a FOID or a CCL may not be, but I'd bet having firearms on the NFRTR is probable cause, thus my question above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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