custodian7138 Posted January 22, 2020 at 10:32 PM Share Posted January 22, 2020 at 10:32 PM Following a delay in approval for transfer from a dealer by the ISP FSB... I got a callback this afternoon explaining my denial of transfer due to my IDPH Medical Cannabis Registered Qualifying Patient status. I was under the assumption that this info was HIPPA protected... but I guess not... working with my dealer to consign or purchase the revolver that I ordered.... My FOID and CCL are still valid... So much for attempting to manage my medical condition in a proper, law abiding way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted January 22, 2020 at 10:47 PM Share Posted January 22, 2020 at 10:47 PM No surprises and discussed often here before. MMJ card holders may have a FOID/CCL and those will not be revoked by the ISP, however any purchase/transfer interaction with an FFL dealer and a 4473 is going to be denied. MMJ card must be expired a year before the check can be passed. Private sales ISP web site FOID check should return a valid card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 22, 2020 at 11:19 PM Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 at 11:19 PM Thank you for the info... I only stumbled onto this forum a few days ago when my application was delayed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted January 22, 2020 at 11:31 PM Share Posted January 22, 2020 at 11:31 PM ... I was under the assumption that this info was HIPPA protected... but I guess not... working with my dealer to consign or purchase the revolver that I ordered.... My FOID and CCL are still valid... ... You may not remember it, but you waived your HIPAA protections, giving the state access to your medical records, when you applied for your CCL. I believe the waiver expires when the CCL does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted January 22, 2020 at 11:47 PM Share Posted January 22, 2020 at 11:47 PM Perhaps, one day, the feds will recognize longtime folly and remove cannabis from the list of prohibited narcotics.Until then, more lives will be disrupted or ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted January 23, 2020 at 01:35 AM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 01:35 AM That’s how this god forsaken state will do ya.... They completely ignore federal rules and then you get screwed, then they say, hey but at least your FOID and CCL are still valid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 23, 2020 at 03:47 AM Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 03:47 AM ...I was under the assumption that this info was HIPPA protected... but I guess not... working with my dealer to consign or purchase the revolver that I ordered.... My FOID and CCL are still valid......You may not remember it, but you waived your HIPAA protections, giving the state access to your medical records, when you applied for your CCL. I believe the waiver expires when the CCL does. I had no idea that was in the CCL application.... and relied on the local community college for the training... the guy that runs the training for the CC is Sgt. with IL SEC OF STATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:08 AM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:08 AM If you have a family member in the household with a FOID, have them purchase guns for your household and then you can legally access them without the hassle of federal interference. My wife is in the same position and she is not a patient, only a registered caregiver. ^ this *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:23 AM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:23 AM You may not remember it, but you waived your HIPAA protections, giving the state access to your medical records, when you applied for your CCL. I believe the waiver expires when the CCL does. Where is that in the application?Unfortunately, I paid to have someone do mine. I had to answer the questions on a form, but permission to access to medical records was not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:14 AM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:14 AM Interesting how that works....red flag laws should be comedy gold within the first week as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLOCK22 Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:13 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:13 PM If you have a family member in the household with a FOID, have them purchase guns for your household and then you can legally access them without the hassle of federal interference. My wife is in the same position and she is not a patient, only a registered caregiver. ^ this ***This could be a slippery slope. Wouldn't want to get a family member jammed up for straw purchasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:43 PM Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:43 PM No problems... no family members in the house... retired, divorced... happy. My last 2 attorneys have passed on... I sat down with a new one yesterday and laid the scenario out for him in case of future problems... I have a valid FOID, valid CCL (which I plan on allowing to expire... I just dont carry much... and Im spending a lot more time at home), and one .22 semi auto rifle... again, happy for what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:20 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:20 PM If you have a family member in the household with a FOID, have them purchase guns for your household and then you can legally access them without the hassle of federal interference. My wife is in the same position and she is not a patient, only a registered caregiver. ^ this ***This could be a slippery slope. Wouldn't want to get a family member jammed up for straw purchasing. My wife and I share everything I own nothing exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted January 23, 2020 at 06:42 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 06:42 PM So much for attempting to manage my medical condition in a proper, law abiding way.For better or worse, cannabis is illegal everywhere in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted January 23, 2020 at 07:10 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 07:10 PM Directly from the ISP website, Firearm Services Bureau, FAQ section: "Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 23, 2020 at 07:28 PM Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 07:28 PM Correct... nothing stated about transfer of firearms from FFL holder to FOID holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted January 23, 2020 at 09:58 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 09:58 PM Directly from the ISP website, Firearm Services Bureau, FAQ section: "Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege." Yep, but the 4473 is a Federal form governed by Federal law, and it still clearly prohibits marijuana use and deems it a disqualifier for 4473 mandated transfers, private sales between individuals that don't require a 4473 are the only way a marijuana user in Illinois can obtain a firearm legally. Interesting dilemma in this above case, now that the seller has failed the background check, said FFL has a paperwork trail of reasonable belief (knows) the buyer is a marijuana user and thus a prohibited person if they continue to transfer outside the 4473 with a private transfer or proxy transfer or even sell the individual ammo from this point forward they are guilty of commiting a Federal crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted January 23, 2020 at 09:58 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 09:58 PM That’s how this god forsaken state will do ya.... They completely ignore federal rules and then you get screwed, then they say, hey but at least your FOID and CCL are still valid! It's not just Illinois, every state that has implemented some form of cannibis "sanctuary state" status has offered the same tradeoff to its citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted January 23, 2020 at 10:52 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 10:52 PM You may not remember it, but you waived your HIPAA protections, giving the state access to your medical records, when you applied for your CCL. I believe the waiver expires when the CCL does. Where is that in the application? Unfortunately, I paid to have someone do mine. I had to answer the questions on a form, but permission to access to medical records was not one of them. I don't recall if it was a checkbox or a block of legalese, but I remember not liking it when I saw it. It's how the state knows when/if people are admitted to hospitals for psych reasons. FWIW the other states whose residents IL grants non-resident CCLs do the same thing (or at least the ISP thinks they do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRApistol Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:19 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:19 PM There are 2 check boxes of legalese at the beginning of the online application for CCL that you must check to agree or you can't proceed. I don't help with too many FOID renewals but I believe they are on the FOID application as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:26 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:26 AM There are 2 check boxes of legalese at the beginning of the online application for CCL that you must check to agree or you can't proceed. I don't help with too many FOID renewals but I believe they are on the FOID application as well.check page 11. I cant get a screen shot https://ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/CCLOverview.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:32 AM Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:32 AM There it is... waiver of confidentiality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:04 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:04 AM Now that I read that, I wonder if companies can still fill out the application for you?They also ask if you are a medical MJ card holder in the questions further down. I would be curious who are the vendors they use, and is the vendor allowed to sell our data, and does the state or other Illinois government entity sell any of that data that is provided. The disclaimer reads like a tech company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:11 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:11 AM Software app vendor was originally Appriss from KY I think who do other state CCL apps. I think the state has since branched out to other software vendors for other pieces and parts. Cant find that thread though which listed those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:54 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:54 PM Custodian, did you check the "Habitual user or addicted to...." box on the ATF4473, or was it simply because you have a medical marijuana card?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 24, 2020 at 02:19 PM Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 02:19 PM My attorney states that I did not violate the law by checking "no"... ISP states that i was denied due to medical cannabis card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted January 24, 2020 at 09:54 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 09:54 PM I just wanna say I'm amused at the thought of drug user registration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:10 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:10 PM e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside I gave up before I left to pick up my firearm and I have none in my pockets, Answer NO A card is no proof of use or possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcc Posted January 27, 2020 at 05:10 AM Share Posted January 27, 2020 at 05:10 AM A card is no proof of use or possession. Nailed it. And think there is a case here, especially with legal recreational usage now. If you get a medical marijuana card and never use marijuana, you get denied. If you do not have a medical marijuana card, use recreational marijuana, you won't be denied. That shows you are specifically being discriminated against for having a medical marijuana card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 27, 2020 at 06:06 PM Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 at 06:06 PM This is my attorneys opinion as of now also. From what I understand my DL # will ping due to my cannabis status... and in IL the auto plate # is tied to the DL#. I believe that in the new cannabis legislation this is supposed to be ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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