ISRA in talks with DOJ regarding Illinois gun laws

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

Discussion starts at around 2:00

 

 

[yurimodin]

I guess they found their "seat at the table"

[John Q Public]

Ya, and they didn't go for the meat, but talking restoration and processing times, which are mostly solved, on the processing time. What we need is for them to talk PICA and FOID in general. Also all the 1000 cuts they are working on. Also, the damn politicos wearing robes, and where the money came from to get them in.

 

 

[davel501]

"Hey look, this steveTA84 is onto something. Winning could cripple our fundraising. Let's get in front of this and screw it up before it gets legs." 

[Bubbacs]

Yay the ISRA has gotten a seat at the big boy table.  My money is FatA$$ got them the invite as they can be the eyes and ears of what's brewing in DC.  No way these sell outs have now decided to help in Illinois!  Mark it fellas this will be a rump bit in the future.

[ealcala31]

On 4/3/2025 at 12:37 PM, John Q Public said:

Ya, and they didn't go for the meat, but talking restoration and processing times, which are mostly solved, on the processing time. What we need is for them to talk PICA and FOID in general. Also all the 1000 cuts they are working on. Also, the damn politicos wearing robes, and where the money came from to get them in.

 

 

IMO, there is not much that can be done with PICA or the FOID on the federal level. They can file a "friend of the court," brief and support us in our lawsuits, but that's about it. Again, the biggest problem is US. We need to vote out our anti-gun politicians. We cannot have our cake (vote for anti-gun politician), and eat it too (and still have our gun rights). In IL, we have gotten almost all of our 2A Rights from the Courts. Other than that, Chicago would still be banning handgun possession and guys/gals would still be trying the empty firearm in a fanny pack possession. Illinoisans live & die by the people who wear black robes...

Edited April 3, 2025 at 11:29 PM by ealcala31

[crufflesmuth]

On 4/3/2025 at 6:28 PM, ealcala31 said:

IMO, there is not much that can be done with PICA or the FOID on the federal level. They can file a "friend of the court," brief and support us in our lawsuits, but that's about it. Again, the biggest problem is US. We need to vote out our anti-gun politicians. We cannot have our cake (vote for anti-gun politician), and eat it too (and still have our gun rights). In IL, we have gotten almost all of our 2A Rights from the Courts. Other than that, Chicago would still be banning handgun possession and guys/gals would still be trying the empty firearm in a fanny pack possession. Illinoisans live & die by the people who wear black robes...

 

PICA is a state law, enacted by a state legislature. Some people here even voted for Pritzker after he 

(Pritzker) merely promised he would not ban certain weapons.

 

For years many have ignored Cook County and written off reality: you need to contend with Cook County

politics to counter Springfield.  

 

I think voting for politicians that are not politically beholden to progressive politics is 

a start, but I do think Illinois is unique: we have a permit system that has legalized 

dog-whistling of gun owners vs. non gun owners. That alone should be investigated

by the DOJ, along with FOID/CCL data - how and who has access, accessed, exposed

or been exposed to that data - that should be top priority for DOJ.

 

 

 

[ealcala31]

On 4/3/2025 at 8:12 PM, crufflesmuth said:

 

PICA is a state law, enacted by a state legislature. Some people here even voted for Pritzker after he 

(Pritzker) merely promised he would not ban certain weapons.

 

For years many have ignored Cook County and written off reality: you need to contend with Cook County

politics to counter Springfield.  

 

I think voting for politicians that are not politically beholden to progressive politics is 

a start, but I do think Illinois is unique: we have a permit system that has legalized 

dog-whistling of gun owners vs. non gun owners. That alone should be investigated

by the DOJ, along with FOID/CCL data - how and who has access, accessed, exposed

or been exposed to that data - that should be top priority for DOJ.

 

 

 

The Governor's race, is 2As only hope. The problem is, most of the FOID Card Holders in Cook County vote for anti-gun politicians.

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

 

The feds can bring civil rights violations against the state legislators.

 

The feds can look into JB's campaign donations and where all the anti-gun money is coming from. 

 

In court the feds can file for discovery of records to look for collusion. 

 

AKA lawfare the F out of them, like they are doing to the 2A community. 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I can't believe that Pritzker openly bribed Illinois Supreme Court Justices and has not been investigated by the DOJ. When the courts can be bought and bribed, how will this ever get resolved? 

 

VooDoo

[Quiet Observer]

On 4/4/2025 at 11:22 AM, Vodoun da Vinci said:

I can't believe that Pritzker openly bribed Illinois Supreme Court Justices and has not been investigated by the DOJ. When the courts can be bought and bribed, how will this ever get resolved? 

 

VooDoo

Do you have a link or an explanation to support your claim?

[mauserme]

On 4/4/2025 at 2:03 PM, Quiet Observer said:

Do you have a link or an explanation to support your claim?

 

I think he's referring to Governor Pritzker's, House Speaker Welch's, and Senate President Harmon's contributions to the Elizabeth Rochford and Mary Kay O'Brien campaigns when they were running for the Illinois Supreme Court.

 

[ealcala31]

On 4/3/2025 at 9:15 PM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

The feds can bring civil rights violations against the state legislators.

 

The feds can look into JB's campaign donations and where all the anti-gun money is coming from. 

 

In court the feds can file for discovery of records to look for collusion. 

 

AKA lawfare the F out of them, like they are doing to the 2A community. 

You're asking for lawfare to be done that has never been done before. Usually the feds will investigate and come up with a consent decree, nothing criminal or any teeth to it. CPD has a consent decree that they semi-follow. The most we can do is vote out anti-gun politicians. Why does that seem to be a problem? IL FOID Card Holders are asking everyone else to fight our battles instead of winning them at the ballot box. Gerrymandering does not affect the governor's race. 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 4/4/2025 at 10:51 PM, ealcala31 said:

You're asking for lawfare to be done that has never been done before. Usually the feds will investigate and come up with a consent decree, nothing criminal or any teeth to it. CPD has a consent decree that they semi-follow. The most we can do is vote out anti-gun politicians. Why does that seem to be a problem? IL FOID Card Holders are asking everyone else to fight our battles instead of winning them at the ballot box. Gerrymandering does not affect the governor's race. 

 

Having a FOID doesn't make a person republican or conservative.  I think we are over estimating how many FOID holders lean republican. 

 

The democrats never stop. They don't control either the high court, house, senator or presidency, but that isn't stopping them from throwing a wrench into Trump's agenda.  NYSRPA v Bruen also doesn't seem to be stopping the democrats from passing gun bans. 

 

Meanwhile, the GOP controls the entire federal apparatus, and we can't seem to use it.   

 

There was a time when firearm manufacturers were protected from lawsuits. The democrats lawfared and won, now the flood gates are opening.          

[crufflesmuth]

On 4/5/2025 at 2:48 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

Having a FOID doesn't make a person republican or conservative.  I think we are over estimating how many FOID holders lean republican. 

 

The democrats never stop. They don't control either the high court, house, senator or presidency, but that isn't stopping them from throwing a wrench into Trump's agenda.  NYSRPA v Bruen also doesn't seem to be stopping the democrats from passing gun bans. 

 

Meanwhile, the GOP controls the entire federal apparatus, and we can't seem to use it.   

 

There was a time when firearm manufacturers were protected from lawsuits. The democrats lawfared and won, now the flood gates are opening.          

 

The Democrats paid attention to suburban households in addition to urban ones. Where is our outreach? You don't need a trip to the range, you 

could have seminars and debates over laws like PICA and attack them outside the courts. 

 

The Democrats did not lawfare. They merely recognized the deficiencies of PLCAA.

 

The gun rights movement has many things going for it. We have good organizations and lawyers, but we still have people

who believe their second amendment is being violated and have nothing to fear, because Heller and McDonald - and 

Bruen by extension - have ended any incentive for them to be politically active.

 

We have been too reactive. Why do groups like Moms Demand Action or Everytown USA get to 

frame the debate around Glock Switches and the like? These groups partner with local PD

and the like or have outreach and we lose more because of that system.

 

We need to focus on the reframing the debate and that should be:

 

1. Attacking Glock itself, for not defending their IP and bringing 

   to light to anti-gun/violence supporters that EVERY Glock

   was never intended or meant to fire automatically from the

   factory, let alone be modified - except the Glock 18 and 18C.

 

2. The Glock Switch patent - engineered by a Venezuelan immigrant 

     Larrain Riccardo, his patent has violated and infringed on Glocks patents

     and similar intellectual property since 1996! That alone destroys the argument

     the Glock system was or is readily intended for conversion into a machine-gun.

     There is a strong and steady stream of case law that deals with IP for

     intended uses vs. non intended uses.   

 

3. Striker and Hammer fired semi-automatic pistols are quick

    becoming the next class of "assault" weapons that anti-violence

    temperance fanatics like Mom's Demand will target. We need

    to forget about political labels and go on the offense, explaining

    these differences - whether through free online seminars or 

    townhalls. 

 

4. PICA can be attacked locally. Run for alderman or mayor. 

    Pass laws that require the state police to enforce it. 

 

5. Have outreach via online seminar or online townhall. YouTube

    tolerates Todd Vandermyde, so it is not an entirely lost cause.

 

6. We have to be honest: ANY firearm can be converted into a machine-gun.

    

And then there is the Illinois firearms manufacturing community itself. If Don Harmon and similar are 

costing you MORE fees and red tape, why have you not talked to an attorney to see if anti-trust 

laws would be broken if you boycotted or charged more for certain sales to certain agencies

and security companies? 

 

These are just some solutions that could be taken now instead of waiting for the courts. 

 

Edited April 5, 2025 at 03:10 PM by crufflesmuth

[crufflesmuth]

On 4/5/2025 at 10:01 AM, crufflesmuth said:

 

The Democrats paid attention to suburban households in addition to urban ones. Where is our outreach? You don't need a trip to the range, you 

could have seminars and debates over laws like PICA and attack them outside the courts. 

 

The Democrats did not lawfare. They merely recognized the deficiencies of PLCAA.

 

The gun rights movement has many things going for it. We have good organizations and lawyers, but we still have people

who believe their second amendment is being violated and have nothing to fear, because Heller and McDonald - and 

Bruen by extension - have ended any incentive for them to be politically active.

 

We have been too reactive. Why do groups like Moms Demand Action or Everytown USA get to 

frame the debate around Glock Switches and the like? These groups partner with local PD

and the like or have outreach and we lose more because of that system.

 

We need to focus on the reframing the debate and that should be:

 

1. Attacking Glock itself, for not defending their IP and bringing 

   to light to anti-gun/violence supporters that EVERY Glock

   was never intended or meant to fire automatically from the

   factory, let alone be modified - except the Glock 18 and 18C.

 

2. The Glock Switch patent - engineered by a Venezuelan immigrant 

     Larrain Riccardo, his patent has violated and infringed on Glocks patents

     and similar intellectual property since 1996! That alone destroys the argument

     the Glock system was or is readily intended for conversion into a machine-gun.

     There is a strong and steady stream of case law that deals with IP for

     intended uses vs. non intended uses.   

 

3. Striker and Hammer fired semi-automatic pistols are quick

    becoming the next class of "assault" weapons that anti-violence

    temperance fanatics like Mom's Demand will target. We need

    to forget about political labels and go on the offense, explaining

    these differences - whether through free online seminars or 

    townhalls. 

 

4. PICA can be attacked locally. Run for alderman or mayor. 

    Pass laws that require the state police to enforce it. 

 

5. Have outreach via online seminar or online townhall. YouTube

    tolerates Todd Vandermyde, so it is not an entirely lost cause.

 

6. We have to be honest: ANY firearm can be converted into a machine-gun.

    

And then there is the Illinois firearms manufacturing community itself. If Don Harmon and similar are 

costing you MORE fees and red tape, why have you not talked to an attorney to see if anti-trust 

laws would be broken if you boycotted or charged more for certain sales to certain agencies

and security companies? 

 

These are just some solutions that could be taken now instead of waiting for the courts. 

 

 

Correction: the inventor is Jorge A. Leon. Larrain Ricardo filed the application and the patent expired July 18 2016. 

 

More information below:

 

US-5705763-A - Patent Public Search | USPTO

Edited April 5, 2025 at 03:23 PM by crufflesmuth

[ealcala31]

On 4/5/2025 at 2:48 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

Having a FOID doesn't make a person republican or conservative.  I think we are over estimating how many FOID holders lean republican.

I agree. IMO, the majority of the FOID Card Holders are Democrats. If the 2.4 million FOID Card Holders voted for a pro-2A governor, there would be NO Gov. Pritzker. 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

On 4/4/2025 at 2:59 PM, mauserme said:

 

I think he's referring to Governor Pritzker's, House Speaker Welch's, and Senate President Harmon's contributions to the Elizabeth Rochford and Mary Kay O'Brien campaigns when they were running for the Illinois Supreme Court.

 

Exactly.

 

VooDoo

[fxdpntc]

On 4/5/2025 at 2:48 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

Having a FOID doesn't make a person republican or conservative.  I think we are over estimating how many FOID holders lean republican. 

^^^^^

Yep.

[crufflesmuth]

I am still working on getting the USPTO results into a friendly .PDF format.

 

Edited April 6, 2025 at 12:17 AM by crufflesmuth

[crufflesmuth]

On 4/5/2025 at 7:13 PM, crufflesmuth said:

I am still working on getting the USPTO results into a friendly .PDF format.

 

 

Patent #5705763

US-5705763-A - Patent Public Search USPTO.pdf

[John Q Public]

State/Fed, so the State of Illinois can pass a law restricting free speech and the Fed can do nothing? I think not. 

[JTHunter]

On 4/5/2025 at 10:01 AM, crufflesmuth said:

4. PICA can be attacked locally. Run for alderman or mayor. 

    Pass laws that require the state police to enforce it.

 

Why in God's Name would we want this P.o.S. "enforced"?  We want PICA GONE !!

Edited April 6, 2025 at 07:05 PM by JTHunter

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 4/6/2025 at 12:32 PM, John Q Public said:

State/Fed, so the State of Illinois can pass a law restricting free speech and the Fed can do nothing? I think not. 

 

Same old arguments.  The democrats get to make up the rules as they go, but we have to play by the old ruleset. 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

 

[mikew]

On 4/17/2025 at 2:53 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

Cool.

Thanks, Dumak.

[JTHunter]

Is it possible that the DOJ has "Jabba" in their sights but are concentrating on the "bigger picture" (the one that has the greatest returns) for the immediate future?

Look how long it too the DOJ to nail Madigan.

[RECarry]

On 4/17/2025 at 2:53 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

 

Consider that evidence proves their policies don't reduce violence and murders.