I need advice/help

[jkdkaliman101]

Some of you will remember i started a thread recently that talked about a family member that had his firearms confiscated after his wife called 911 because she perceived he was going to hurt himself. As a result, this family member lost his FOID (this all happened within the last few weeks)

 

Originally the police indicated that they were going to release the guns to me (which i included in the thread) but since that posting they have been giving me the runaround.

 

The evidence tech told me my relative, I'll just say it, my son..would have to come in to sign paperwork to release the property to me (basically transferring ownership). But then they changed their mind and said I/we (because some of the firearms are actually mine) would have to prove ownership. Well we have original receipts for one or two of these but many of them are years old and at least one is an heirloom passed down (believe it or not it's a very nice old beeman pellet rifle)

 

We CAN'T prove ownership of these except for the fact that they came out of his home!

 

Keep in mind they ran all these guns to make sure none were used in a crime and that none were reported stolen (all came back ok as expected)

 

They also gave me all of the cases and cleaning kits that were confiscated. Apparently its ok for them to give SOME property back without "proof" we actually own it.

 

Now the PD isn't telling us that they need proof of ownership ownership. They're just simply ignoring us and stalling. The evidence tech just keeps telling me she has to wait to get word back from her supervisor but won't give me any idea what she is waiting for.

 

She just assures me that the property won't get destroyed or go to auction which means I'm getting worried that it's going to get dedtroyed or go to auction!

 

I'm not sure what to do or how to proceed. my son was released after the standard observation after it was determined he isn't a threat to himself or anyone else. Yes he did lose his FOID so i understand that they can't release the guns to him but what about me? Considering some of them were mine to begin with and even the ones that weren't, seems he should be able to transfer ownership?!

 

Or does the fact his FOID is now revoked make it impossible to transfer them to me?

 

Very frustrated with this.

 

Any help is appreciated

[jkdkaliman101]

Since posting the above I've come across the potential answer. 1) get a certified inventory of all weapons taken from the police 2) fill out and submit a firearms disposition record

 

Not sure what comes next...any corrections or additions to this?

 

For the record my son has yet to receive an official letter from the ISP stating that his FOID has been revoked.

[Craigcelia]

I hate to state the obvious, but you might want to look into retaining an attorney knowledgeable in firearm laws. ISRA has an attorney referral service, and I thought I had seen ILCarry also has something posted depending where you reside.

 

I don't think you need to worry about your firearms being destroyed or auctioned off. They take chain of custody of confiscated items pretty serious. Never a good idea to let government take your firearms. In hindsight, perhaps they could have been given to you before they got them. I realize that doesn't help now.

[soylentgreen]

I hate to state the obvious, but you might want to look into retaining an attorney knowledgeable in firearm laws. ISRA has an attorney referral service, and I thought I had seen ILCarry also has something posted depending where you reside.

 

 

I was going to suggest the same thing. Most likely, they will listen to a lawyer more than they'll listen to a citizen. The lawyer may have to appear before a judge to get a court order which will essentially force the PD to comply.

[Bitter Clinger]

I agree with Craig. Get a good lawyer.

 

Also some extra advice for anyone else that this could happen to, even though it's too late for your "son".

 

Get a good safe and lock up all your firearms and be sure not to tell your wife the combo.

Part of the reason I got my safe was to help prevent government confiscations.

 

At least if your guns are locked up, they can't be easily taken by the cops and it gives you time to arrange a transfer to a family member.

 

Just my opinion, so don't shoot the messenger.

[tkroenlein]

X3 for the attorney, and we'll hope that a single properly worded letter will remind the PD of the provision in the law allowing for such transfer of ownership.

 

 

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[GWBH]

Did he have them insured? If so, they would be listed individually on the policy.

It's sad that a citizen can't get a straight answer from LE without going to court - this is messed up!

[jkdkaliman101]

Thanks for the replies...and to bitter...great advice. PS..had i of known this was happening i would have made a beeline to his house and took possession the day of. I'll update this thread as it progresses.

[borgranta]

The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that felons can sell their confiscated guns according to this article

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/05/18/supreme-court-says-convicted-felons-can-sell-their-guns.html

[tseeker]

Unfortunately, that's how our government truly works and why corruption is so rampant (particularly in illinios).

 

They just do whatever they want (legal or not) and bank on the fact that you will not have the resources to fight it or not spend your resources to fight it.

 

Even if you do fight it and win, there will be no consequences to them (outside of simply being court ordered to give your guns back)...And depending on the value of these guns, it's very possible that you could have replaced all or most them with the money that you spent on legal fees.

 

Thanks to folks like these at illinoiscarry and many like them, things are slowly starting to turn around, in illinios.

 

In the meantime, we need to be more individually mindful to not get caught with our pants down...

 

And we can all be more vocal and proactive (in our everyday lives) in influencing others and voting this rampent corruption out of our federal, state, and local governments

 

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[GTX63]

Guns go in a safe and whomever is home should LEO ever arrive doesn't have the combination. Significant other removes and relocates to a safe house (or sells them) before the warrant arrives. JM2C.

[borgranta]

Some of you will remember i started a thread recently that talked about a family member that had his firearms confiscated after his wife called 911 because she perceived he was going to hurt himself. As a result, this family member lost his FOID (this all happened within the last few weeks)

Originally the police indicated that they were going to release the guns to me (which i included in the thread) but since that posting they have been giving me the runaround.

The evidence tech told me my relative, I'll just say it, my son..would have to come in to sign paperwork to release the property to me (basically transferring ownership). But then they changed their mind and said I/we (because some of the firearms are actually mine) would have to prove ownership. Well we have original receipts for one or two of these but many of them are years old and at least one is an heirloom passed down (believe it or not it's a very nice old beeman pellet rifle)

We CAN'T prove ownership of these except for the fact that they came out of his home!

Keep in mind they ran all these guns to make sure none were used in a crime and that none were reported stolen (all came back ok as expected)

They also gave me all of the cases and cleaning kits that were confiscated. Apparently its ok for them to give SOME property back without "proof" we actually own it.

Now the PD isn't telling us that they need proof of ownership ownership. They're just simply ignoring us and stalling. The evidence tech just keeps telling me she has to wait to get word back from her supervisor but won't give me any idea what she is waiting for.

She just assures me that the property won't get destroyed or go to auction which means I'm getting worried that it's going to get dedtroyed or go to auction!

I'm not sure what to do or how to proceed. my son was released after the standard observation after it was determined he isn't a threat to himself or anyone else. Yes he did lose his FOID so i understand that they can't release the guns to him but what about me? Considering some of them were mine to begin with and even the ones that weren't, seems he should be able to transfer ownership?!

Or does the fact his FOID is now revoked make it impossible to transfer them to me?

Very frustrated with this.

Any help is appreciated

If she is his wife then maybe that those guns are marital property and demand the right to sell them. She could then arrange to sell them to you for an agreed upon price she could even sell them for $1 to you. Also if the husband and wife move to a bordering state he could demand the return of his property since he is no longer be a prohibited person due to moving to a different state. A lawyer demanded either return of the property of full retail value might cause them to release the property

[ragsbo]

1. Sorry to hear of your problems.

2. Get a lawyer and let them put the fear of God in them (or the fear of a law suit against them personally for not following the law).

3. Even if they give you the firearms back- push the law suit or what ever so they are punished for their wrong actions. Might save the next person some grief. If this is done more and they know they will be held accountable, this crap will stop. At least try to get them to pay for the lawyer and all

[BShawn]

Sending you a PM (@OP)

[jkdkaliman101]

 

Some of you will remember i started a thread recently that talked about a family member that had his firearms confiscated after his wife called 911 because she perceived he was going to hurt himself. As a result, this family member lost his FOID (this all happened within the last few weeks)

Originally the police indicated that they were going to release the guns to me (which i included in the thread) but since that posting they have been giving me the runaround.

The evidence tech told me my relative, I'll just say it, my son..would have to come in to sign paperwork to release the property to me (basically transferring ownership). But then they changed their mind and said I/we (because some of the firearms are actually mine) would have to prove ownership. Well we have original receipts for one or two of these but many of them are years old and at least one is an heirloom passed down (believe it or not it's a very nice old beeman pellet rifle)

We CAN'T prove ownership of these except for the fact that they came out of his home!

Keep in mind they ran all these guns to make sure none were used in a crime and that none were reported stolen (all came back ok as expected)

They also gave me all of the cases and cleaning kits that were confiscated. Apparently its ok for them to give SOME property back without "proof" we actually own it.

Now the PD isn't telling us that they need proof of ownership ownership. They're just simply ignoring us and stalling. The evidence tech just keeps telling me she has to wait to get word back from her supervisor but won't give me any idea what she is waiting for.

She just assures me that the property won't get destroyed or go to auction which means I'm getting worried that it's going to get dedtroyed or go to auction!

I'm not sure what to do or how to proceed. my son was released after the standard observation after it was determined he isn't a threat to himself or anyone else. Yes he did lose his FOID so i understand that they can't release the guns to him but what about me? Considering some of them were mine to begin with and even the ones that weren't, seems he should be able to transfer ownership?!

Or does the fact his FOID is now revoked make it impossible to transfer them to me?

Very frustrated with this.

Any help is appreciated

If she is his wife then maybe that those guns are marital property and demand the right to sell them. She could then arrange to sell them to you for an agreed upon price she could even sell them for $1 to you. Also if the husband and wife move to a bordering state he could demand the return of his property since he is no longer be a prohibited person due to moving to a different state. A lawyer demanded either return of the property of full retail value might cause them to release the property

 

Unfortunately, his wife (my DIL) doesn't have a FOID- she is from Ohio and has yet to apply for one. I talked to the evidence tech again today and she told me that they are waiting for the criminal/stolen check to come back on the guns. I demanded an inventory of the property so I can get the ball rolling. I find it hard to believe they are still waiting to find out if these firearms were ever used in the commission of a crime or if they were ever reported stolen. Seems to me that that is something they could get an answer to immediately. The saga continues........

[Tango7]

You guys aren't in Waukegan by chance, are you? That sounds a lot like the DeVost case from last year.

[foxtail]

Find out if his foid was really revoked. If they found he was not a risk he should not lose his foid.

[vito]

This type of thing affects more than guns. My youngest son was arrested many years ago while driving a car that I owned. The police seized the car, alleging that at the time of the arrest I had stated that the car was his. This was not true, I had told the police it was my car, but foolishly admitted that he was the primary driver of that vehicle. Although eventually I got the car back, it took 5 months and the services of an attorney to force the local cops to give it back to me. The judge admonished the local police stating that since I could prove I owned the car, and did so by showing them the title, they had no justification for retaining the car. A lot of good that did me. The car had sat in unfavorable circumstances for the five months in question and required a total new brake system front and back to be installed. So in addition to the $1,500 charged by my attorney for his help, it cost me another $2,000 to get the car back in running order. I blame myself for not following the advice I have given to my children and other friends and family: don't talk to the police, ever. Be polite, but do not give them any information even if you are not being considered a suspect in a crime. (Many folks do not seem aware that anything you say can and will be used against you, and that the police are not required to give you the Miranda warning until they have decided that you are a suspect. Therefore any casual questions asked, and your answers, are admissable as evidence even if they have not warned you of your rights.) My attorney told me that had I said nothing more than "this is my car" and refused to discuss anything further the police, in my case, would not have had any justification for keeping the car in the first place. They distorted my statement about who used the car to stretch the truth and claim I "admitted" the car was his.

 

I am not at all surprised that they are not returning the guns that they assured you would be given back to you. Good luck with ever seeing them again, and if and when you get them, I wonder what condition they will be in.

[matkinson]

(Many folks do not seem aware that anything you say can and will be used against you, and that the police are not required to give you the Miranda warning until they have decided that you are a suspect. Therefore any casual questions asked, and your answers, are admissable as evidence even if they have not warned you of your rights.)

 

I don't think this is entirely correct: a Miranda warning is required only if 1) someone is in custody and 2) being asked questions. Your right to remain silent is not contingent upon receiving a Miranda warning.

 

NB I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

[vito]

I agree and guess I was not as clear as I should have been. If you are not being detained and considered a suspect, the police do not have to warn you of your rights. Some people might be more flippant about what they casually discuss with officers on the scene, thinking that what they say cannot be used as evidence, since no one formally warned them of their right to remain silent. If you are free to leave the scene but speak to the officers anyway, whatever you say can be used as evidence against you at a later time. I am also not an attorney but I believe that what I just stated above is correct.

[matkinson]

You can be detained (as in a traffic stop) and questioned without a Miranda warning being required, as I understand it.

 

In any event, you don't need to be told that you have the right to remain silent in order to have that right. I also am told that you must invoke it clearly. "I'd like to speak to an attorney before I answer any questions."

[BShawn]

Find out if his foid was really revoked. If they found he was not a risk he should not lose his foid.

 

You would THINK, but, wrong...

 

In Illinois, merely being sent for a "mandatory evaluation" is considered "being a patient in a mental health facility"... They WILL pull the FOID over this...

[BShawn]

Oh and I'm reviewing the law right now, they've actually made it HARDER to get it back AFTER the 5 years have lapsed...

If you look at 430 ILCS 65/4(a)(2)(iv)

 

You will see this: He or she has not been a patient in a mental health facility within the past 5 years or, if he or she has been a patient in a mental health facility more than 5 years ago submit the certification required under subsection (u) of Section 8 of this Act;

 

They ADDED the part about NEEDING "certification" even if it's been AFTER 5 years! (the part I made bold)

 

When you look at the referenced 430 ILCS 65/8(u)

 

You will see this: A person who has had his or her Firearm Owner's Identification Card revoked or denied under subsection (e) of this Section or item (iv) of paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of Section 4 of this Act because he or she was a patient in a mental health facility as provided in subsection (e) of this Section, shall not be permitted to obtain a Firearm Owner's Identification Card, after the 5-year period has lapsed, unless he or she has received a mental health evaluation by a physician, clinical psychologist, or qualified examiner as those terms are defined in the Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities Code, and has received a certification that he or she is not a clear and present danger to himself, herself, or others. The physician, clinical psychologist, or qualified examiner making the certification and his or her employer shall not be held criminally, civilly, or professionally liable for making or not making the certification required under this subsection, except for willful or wanton misconduct. This subsection does not apply to a person whose firearm possession rights have been restored through administrative or judicial action under Section 10 or 11 of this Act.

 

So now, you see, you HAVE to get a doctor to write off on it, even AFTER five years. It didn't used to be like that, you could have simply waited the 5 years and re-applied, and they would HAVE to re-issue if you didn't have any other dis-qualifier's - they've intentionally made it more difficult if not down right IMPOSSIBLE to get it back if they ever consider you to have been "under mental treatment"... Because NO doctor is going to "write off" on your "ability to own or carry a firearm". I don't care that they put that part about removing liability - Any doc will tell you they will not write any such documents due to potential liability - so, the state has effectively put people in a dead loop here!

 

Screw the state of IL!

[BShawn]

And of course under 430 ILCS 65/10(c-5) - if this happens to a LEO/COP all they have to do to get THEIR FOID back is petition the "the Director of State Police" - yea because THAT'S FAIR @.@

 

Moral of this story, do NOT go for "mental health" help, under ANY circumstances. This includes if anyone tries to FORCE you to (even police)! If you do, you WILL lose your FOID...

 

I guess the biggest moral of the story is to move the heck out of illinois actually! I know I used to like it here (when I was young and naive), and I've had my fair share of "issues" here, and I never thought I'd see the day where IL had concealed carry, but there are far more things wrong with IL than the fact that it didn't have concealed carry. I keep hearing how people and businesses are leaving IL in droves, I will very soon be one of them - I am about fed up with this state to the point of not being able to take it any longer! I cannot now believe what I read about these changes in the FOID act, they're intentionally to keep people stuck in an indefinite loop where they must either A) give up their 2A, B] hire expensive lawyers to sue this god forsaken state C] MOVE ON TO GREENER PASTURES! I surely would NEVER give up my second amendment, and I don't think I'd hire expensive lawyers to help me defend myself against this tyrannical state, I'm going to opt for C - I'm getting the **** out of dodge!

[jkdkaliman101]

:update....the latest I've heard is "it can take up to a year for the firearms traces to come back"

[matkinson]

:update....the latest I've heard is "it can take up to a year for the firearms traces to come back"

 

That doesn't sound right. I really think you need an attorney.

[BShawn]

Yea that's a load of horse hockey pucks right there!

Lawyer up!

[Blackbeard]

Regarding the prevalent attitude of police that one should "prove ownership" of confiscated firearms, I have adopted the practice of scanning sales receipts and any transfer documents whenever I acquire a firearm. I also keep photos of the firearms showing the serial numbers. I figure this would save me untold headaches should I ever be in that situation. Or if I need to prove someday that my firearms were purchased before Hillary banned them.

[jkdkaliman101]

UPDATE- RESOLVED:

 

All of the confiscated firearms are now in my possession. Once my son received the revocation letter from the ISP I brought it along with the completed firearms disposition form to the police dept. About a week later I received a call from them stating the background check on all the guns had come back and were clean. From there it was just a matter of signing paperwork at the police dept for each individual item that basically stated I was taking ownership and that I wouldn't transfer to any ineligible person.

 

Glad this is over. Unfortunately my son has a long road ahead of him in getting his FOID back but at least his property will still be in the family when that day comes.

 

Thanks again for all the replies

[tkroenlein]

Glad to hear the property was released without further incident.

 

I wish the best for your son and will say a prayer for him.

 

 

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