Are The Lawyers Ready?

[357]

 

Is there anything prohibiting a police agency from tracking the serial numbers of any turned-in firearms? I would think that could prove to be a valuable database to someone.

 

The biggest hurdle to overcome is getting a nationwide database of guns. Everything is on paper or in various media. Law prohibits this database because too many tin foil hat wearing gun owners are afraid the government will come after them .

So you want registration?

[mauserme]

The biggest hurdle to overcome is getting a nationwide database of guns. Everything is on paper or in various media. Law prohibits this database because too many tin foil hat wearing gun owners are afraid the government will come after them .

Ridiculing gun owners on a pro-gun forum is not the best direction you could have gone, particularly if you hoped to be persuasive in some way.

 

Our Code of Conduct is a short, but worthwhile read. Spend some time on Item #3.

[steveTA84]

 

The biggest hurdle to overcome is getting a nationwide database of guns. Everything is on paper or in various media. Law prohibits this database because too many tin foil hat wearing gun owners are afraid the government will come after them .

Ridiculing gun owners on a pro-gun forum is not the best direction you could have gone, particularly if you hoped to be persuasive in some way.Our Code of Conduct is a short, but worthwhile read. Spend some time on Item #3.

Ill just leave this here.....

 

http://i.imgur.com/vcwxiCt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bFyoyky.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YpGFKQp.jpg

[steveTA84]

Or this

 

http://i.imgur.com/YeRRbY4.jpg

[steveTA84]

Mods, pay close attention to this. Scott isn’t here to help, he’s here to get inside info, troll, get as ticked off, and hinder our plans. On top of it, as seen above, he carries not to protect himself from danger of all kinds, but only to protect himself FROM US.

 

http://i.imgur.com/4tLxDe8.jpg

[soundguy]

I find item #7 as interesting as #3.

 

3. Personal attacks and “flaming” other members is forbidden. This includes disrespect, antagonism, baiting, name-calling and a host of other demeaning attributes. Spirited debate is encouraged and can occur without name-calling or slander. We acknowledge that disagreements are common among groups of diverse people who value individual rights, but ask that interactions remain civil. If you decide to engage in uncivil communication, pursue such matters off the board.

7. Posting another member's personal information, private messages, or private emails will be cause for immediate and permanent suspension. The only case in which such information might be allowed is when it is deemed absolutely necessary to protect members or the public from harm, as in the case of illegal activity.

 

[soundguy]

 

Is there anything prohibiting a police agency from tracking the serial numbers of any turned-in firearms? I would think that could prove to be a valuable database to someone.

 

The biggest hurdle to overcome is getting a nationwide database of guns. Everything is on paper or in various media. Law prohibits this database because too many tin foil hat wearing gun owners are afraid the government will come after them .

 

To my friends and acquaintances who like to consider and explore the possibility of a nationwide database of guns... I enjoy letting them know how entirely impossible that is, even among the most upstanding and law abiding US citizens.

[mauserme]

The entire CoC is a worthy document, though I think in this case you're referring to something posted publicly on another forum.

[soundguy]

The entire CoC is a worthy document, though I think in this case you're referring to something posted publicly on another forum.

 

You are correct.

I personally question the ethics of posting such info about a member.

It's borderline behavior for me.

[mauserme]

At this point very few of us know what you and I are talking about. Removing posts is never an easy call. It seemed like the right call this time.

[soundguy]

Wise call.

[steveTA84]

I have no idea what you’re talking about????

 

[ScottFM]

 

The biggest hurdle to overcome is getting a nationwide database of guns. Everything is on paper or in various media. Law prohibits this database because too many tin foil hat wearing gun owners are afraid the government will come after them .

Ridiculing gun owners on a pro-gun forum is not the best direction you could have gone, particularly if you hoped to be persuasive in some way.

 

Our Code of Conduct is a short, but worthwhile read. Spend some time on Item #3.

 

I am only making fun of those who think that there is some nefarious dark government conspiracy, I was not making fun of all gun owners. If that came out wrong, then I apologize. But you have to admit there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there who have some darn crazy ideas.

[ScottFM]

 

So you want registration?

 

I am not sure to be honest.

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

[mauserme]

As an individual you are certainly free to consider registration as something you might desire.

 

As an organization, we will not join you in that.

[Talonap]

 

 

So you want registration?

 

I am not sure to be honest.

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

 

 

Of course there are already laws against, "Straw Sales", or rather, "Straw Purchases". I'm sure more laws against it would make a big difference. And, the criminals doing it would certainly register them.

[steveTA84]

 

So you want registration?

 

I am not sure to be honest.

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

I love how you operate

[soundguy]

 

So you want registration?

 

I am not sure to be honest.

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

In a recent incident...

A woman from Mt Prospect legally bought 4 guns.

She reported one stolen.

One turned up in the hands of a Chicago Juvenile .

She sold 2 to a Hoffman Estates man with CHICAGO gang ties.

She plead guilty and received probation.

She also paid fines of $679.

 

Perhaps the solution is not more regulations?

[ScottFM]

 

 

So you want registration?

I am not sure to be honest.

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

In a recent incident...

A woman from Mt Prospect legally bought 4 guns.

She reported one stolen.

One turned up in the hands of a Chicago Juvenile .

She sold 2 to a Hoffman Estates man with CHICAGO gang ties.

She plead guilty and received probation.

She also paid fines of $679.

 

Perhaps the solution is not more regulations?

 

Again I did not say anything about 'more regulations' I said make the database of existing sales actually searchable. Right now it only exists on paper. You already disclose the serial number of the gun you are buying on the ATF form. But that is not entered into a searchable database.

[steveTA84]

So you want registration?

I am not sure to be honest.

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

 

In a recent incident...

A woman from Mt Prospect legally bought 4 guns.

She reported one stolen.

One turned up in the hands of a Chicago Juvenile .

She sold 2 to a Hoffman Estates man with CHICAGO gang ties.

She plead guilty and received probation.

She also paid fines of $679.

Perhaps the solution is not more regulations?

Again I did not say anything about 'more regulations' I said make the database of existing sales actually searchable. Right now it only exists on paper. You already disclose the serial number of the gun you are buying on the ATF form. But that is not entered into a searchable database.

 

Nah, that’s ok. We don’t need or want that

[357]

 

So you want registration?

 

I am not sure to be honest.

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

It is searchable and police can trace guns. Straw purchasing is already against the law and a felony but criminals who are caught get probation. They want to pass new laws with lies to disarm law abiding people and want to shut down law abiding gun dealers with red tape and regulations which they slander and call illegal gun traffickers. Their goal is to eventually ban all guns and it is a conspiracy and not a secret, they say it openly.

 

Law abiding people are not the problem and passing more laws and is not gonna change anything. We should not be blamed and punished for the actions of criminals. What difference is an electronic nationwide database gonna make? Their goal is to have a database under the guise of fighting crime so they can confiscate guns from law abiding people one day because criminals don't register guns and don't obey laws and deface the serial numbers from guns.

[Lou]

Searchable databases, dashcams, body cams and many of the solutions the anti-gunners espouse are not meant to prevent crimes. They are only useful after the crime has already been committed.

 

The real purpose is to pass just one more common sense gun law which will be ineffective and lead to yet more restrictive anti-gun laws.

 

Their stated goal, and they are open about it, is death by 1000 cuts. Just keep passing so-called common sense gun laws until the Second Amendment is neutered.

 

We cannot give an inch because its never enough.

[BobPistol]

 

We have a problem with straw sales, I think we can all admit that. As a result, there are guns getting into the wrong hands and that results in calls for more regulations that will negatively affect the law abiding gun owner simply because we cannot find the ones that are breaking the law. If there was a way to get these law breakers, isn't something that should be considered?

 

 

We currently get the law breakers, and the courts let them off with time served and a small fine. If the ILGA were to miraculously collectively rub two brain cells together, and write a law that says straw sales and straw buyers get a serious penalty (20 years in prison, $100,000 fine) AND write a section that penalizes judges personally for not following this sentencing law - along with a private cause of action against those judges if the criminal gets off with less than the legally mandated sentence....

 

MAYBE that would work. But you know that Crook County judges find ways around not enforcing the laws on the books.

[Flynn]

If the ILGA were to miraculously collectively rub two brain cells together, and write a law that says straw sales and straw buyers get a serious penalty (20 years in prison, $100,000 fine)

 

If they simply prosecuted the existing 10/$250,000 Federal laws already on the books it would likely help A LOT, the slap on the wrist minimal fine with probation or a few months in jail just isn't a legitimate deterrent. Many of these straw buyers are guilty of multiple purchases so they could be charged with multiple counts that could easily put them away for 20+ years if prosecutors and judges actually did their jobs.

[steveTA84]

 

If the ILGA were to miraculously collectively rub two brain cells together, and write a law that says straw sales and straw buyers get a serious penalty (20 years in prison, $100,000 fine)

 

If they simply prosecuted the existing 10/$250,000 Federal laws already on the books it would likely help A LOT, the slap on the wrist minimal fine with probation or a few months in jail just isn't a legitimate deterrent. Many of these straw buyers are guilty of multiple purchases so they could be charged with multiple counts that could easily put them away for 20+ years if prosecutors and judges actually did their jobs.

But in Chicago, that won’t happen, and I think we all know why..........

[soundguy]

 

357:

So you want registration?

 

ScottFM:

I am not sure to be honest.

Soundguy:
Perhaps the solution is not more regulations?

 

ScottFM:

Again I did not say anything about 'more regulations' I said make the database of existing sales actually searchable. Right now it only exists on paper. You already disclose the serial number of the gun you are buying on the ATF form. But that is not entered into a searchable database.

 

 

 

Most gun sales are not traceable through a database, not even on paper.

 

Newer purchases can be traced from the mfg/importer to the original FFL and then to the first buyer. That can happen fairly quickly and does as needed. If it is transferred from owner to an FFL, you get another round.

 

In Illinois, you can keep that trace going for the next private sale unless 10 years have past, and then the trail may end cold. There are fewer records for private sales in most other states.

 

I contend, an effective traceable gun database is impossible without draconian regulations to require all Americans to submit all gun ownership info to those compiling the database and to prohibit all private transfers. That will not happen.

 

As a very Liberal and Progressive gun owner (ask anyone here!), the system works just fine as it is...

 

Enforcing existing laws in a meaningful way might actually help.

[steveTA84]

 

 

357:

So you want registration?

 

ScottFM:

I am not sure to be honest.

Soundguy:

Perhaps the solution is not more regulations?

 

ScottFM:

Again I did not say anything about 'more regulations' I said make the database of existing sales actually searchable. Right now it only exists on paper. You already disclose the serial number of the gun you are buying on the ATF form. But that is not entered into a searchable database.

 

Most gun sales are not traceable through a database, not even on paper.

 

Newer purchases can be traced from the mfg/importer to the original FFL and then to the first buyer. That can happen fairly quickly and does as needed. If it is transferred from owner to an FFL, you get another round.

 

In Illinois, you can keep that trace going for the next private sale unless 10 years have past, and then the trail may end cold. There are fewer records for private sales in most other states.

 

I contend, an effective traceable gun database is impossible without draconian regulations to require all Americans to submit all gun ownership info to those compiling the database and to prohibit all private transfers. That will not happen.

 

As a very Liberal and Progressive gun owner (ask anyone here!), the system works just fine as it is...

 

Enforcing existing laws in a meaningful way might actually help.

+1

[lilguy]

With all do respect they are not that interested in clamping down with current laws. Their ultimate goal is civilian disarmament. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sleepwalking through this war. They pass laws and then don’t enforce them. The problems continue, we b**** and they pass more stringent laws. They don’t enforce these laws and the circle tightens.

We have a number of state wide bans that no one is enforcing. Why? Because time is on their side. The death of the gun culture is a long game. When we old warriors pass the next generation is far less committed to the battle. The antis know this and have the patients to wait for the changes that are coming. No one is safe, no state is immune.

[soundguy]

With all do respect they are not that interested in clamping down with current laws. Their ultimate goal is civilian disarmament. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sleepwalking through this war. They pass laws and then don’t enforce them. The problems continue, we b**** and they pass more stringent laws. They don’t enforce these laws and the circle tightens.

We have a number of state wide bans that no one is enforcing. Why? Because time is on their side. The death of the gun culture is a long game. When we old warriors pass the next generation is far less committed to the battle. The antis know this and have the patients to wait for the changes that are coming. No one is safe, no state is immune.

 

Lack of prosecution, not having to pay the price, is a problem across America. Not just with gun related things. I don't think it's an anti-gun agenda. I'm not that paranoid.

 

My neighbors car was stolen from his garage, middle of the night.

Cops stopped it a few blocks away because they thought it was odd the (21 year old) driver had the front passenger window down. It was 40 and windy and drizzling. They see broken glass all over the seat, question and arrest the kid who is screaming "I wasn't driving that car" as he is cuffed...

 

My neighbor faithfully appeared in court to 4 continuances and missed number 5. The case was dismissed.

 

I'm sure he's turned himself around after being let off the hook again.

 

If there are no consequences for breaking laws, there can be no expectation that additional laws will be more effective.

[steveTA84]

With all do respect they are not that interested in clamping down with current laws. Their ultimate goal is civilian disarmament. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sleepwalking through this war. They pass laws and then don’t enforce them. The problems continue, we b**** and they pass more stringent laws. They don’t enforce these laws and the circle tightens.

We have a number of state wide bans that no one is enforcing. Why? Because time is on their side. The death of the gun culture is a long game. When we old warriors pass the next generation is far less committed to the battle. The antis know this and have the patients to wait for the changes that are coming. No one is safe, no state is immune.

This is their goal. They DONT CARE about “gun violence”. People need to get this through their heads. Just like Everytown and MDA, they use useful idiots to do groundwork for an agenda that has 1 goal: the end of the 2nd amendment. They use tragedies and crocodile tears to play into the emotions of the weak sheeple, all while smiling and laughing behind closed doors. They have zero interest in anything other than a gun grab.