Legal to have a concealed weapon in Post Office parking lot?

[Buff1968]

So is it legal to have a concealed handgun (CCL) in your vehicle in a Post Office parking lot in IL? I have seen the court case in CO about this very thing but not sure if it applies to IL as well. Anyone have the definitive answer? Molly?

[Davey]

I think a USPS controlled parking lot is prohibited by law.

 

I went to post office just yesterday. Parked on the street instead. Those other customers should have thanked me.

[pjh]

Although there are differing opinions on this, I will not chance it on the basis of a court ruling in another district until federal law is changed for nationwide application. I believe there has been a bill proposed in Congress to allow safe haven in PO parking lots. Until such a bill is passed and enacted, I'll refrain from having a firearm in my vehicle when on PO property.

[Jeffrey]

Stay in the car and you are fine.

[SiliconSorcerer]

I think a USPS controlled parking lot is prohibited by law.

 

I went to post office just yesterday. Parked on the street instead. Those other customers should have thanked me.

 

I don't believe this is true, have a friend that lives near a post office THAT LEASES the building, police told him it was not off limits and the landlord won't let them put up a sign, not included in the lease if they didn't like it move.

[Hipshot Percussion]

As far as I know (and that ain't very far) You may not have a gun with you, period, when you are on Post Office property. No guns. Nada. Zip. Zero. Not on your person, not in a locked compartment in your car, not in FOID transport. No. No. No. Park somewhere close, lock up your gun and walk to the Post Office.

 

I think.

[AJR]

Don't do it.

You are not suppose to have a firearm on federal property and that includes the parking lots.

There was a town that did not have mailboxes. Everyone had a PO box at the local US Post Office. Because of this they fought and won a case that they can have firearms in their USPS parking lots. I know that this ruling was only a local one and that other towns that also do not have mailboxes at their homes filed for the same.

 

Until this is a national ruling, it only applies to the towns that have fought and won, under those unique circumstances.

[BIGDEESUL]

I believe you cannot have firearms in the parking lots of social security offices, federal court houses, etc. As well.

[Dr. Rat]

Stay in the car and you are fine.

 

By "fine" do you mean you won't be breaking the law or that you won't likely be caught?

[tkroenlein]

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/6/democrats-attack-sen-rand-paul-defending-gun-right/

 

The US SENATE seems to say you're good to go with storing your lawfully possessed firearm in your car at the Post Office.

 

I'm adding this edit lest someone get the wrong impression.

 

This was only a 15-0 committee vote led by dems. Encouraging, but not law.

[Jeffrey]

 

Stay in the car and you are fine.

 

By "fine" do you mean you won't be breaking the law or that you won't likely be caught?

 

IANAL but I am under the belief that your car is just like your home.

[spec5]

Senate committee not Senate in favor.

[spec5]

 

 

Stay in the car and you are fine.

 

By "fine" do you mean you won't be breaking the law or that you won't likely be caught?

IANAL but I am under the belief that your car is just like your home.

Not on USPS property.

[TFC]

If you have to ask the question, don't do it.

[gangrel]

Stay in the car and you are fine.

By Federal Law, this is not true. Sure, someone would need to search your vehicle to ever find out, but if for whatever reason it happens, you would not be looking at a violation of the FCC, but rather Federal charges. This should have been covered in your Illinois CCW class.

 

There is a case in Colorado challenging this, but it is on behalf of a couple in rural Colorado who's only option for mail delivery is a PO Box. They are challenging because there is no way for them to retrieve their mail except to go to the post office. Even with a favorable decision, there is doubt about whether this case would change the rules for all post offices nationwide.

[mauserme]

As far as I know Postal Regulation still prohibits it in most areas.

 

There's a case outlined in the Judicial forum, Bonidy vs USPS, in which a district court ruled that the Post Office in Colorado has to allow it in their parking areas. That isn't binding on us.

 

I'm not sure of the status of the Senate bill mentioned above but being approved in committee implies that it has a way to go before becoming law.

 

 

 

Edited to add the order in Bonidy states:

 

ORDERED, that the Defendants take such action as is necessary to permit Tab Bonidy to use the public parking lot adjacent to the Avon Post Office Building with a firearm authorized by his Concealed Carry Permit secured in his car in a reasonably prescribed manner, ...

So vehicle storage, but not true carry, in areas covered by Bonidy.

[bobapunk]

As far as I know (and that ain't very far) You may not have a gun with you, period, when you are on Post Office property. No guns. Nada. Zip. Zero. Not on your person, not in a locked compartment in your car, not in FOID transport. No. No. No. Park somewhere close, lock up your gun and walk to the Post Office.

 

I think.

 

I think you are right

[Hipshot Percussion]

 

As far as I know (and that ain't very far) You may not have a gun with you, period, when you are on Post Office property. No guns. Nada. Zip. Zero. Not on your person, not in a locked compartment in your car, not in FOID transport. No. No. No. Park somewhere close, lock up your gun and walk to the Post Office.

 

I think.

 

I think you are right

 

I think I'm right... You think I'm right... Somehow this is going to turn out very bad for the both of us

[howie]

I do believe Federal law bans guns on buildings located on property rented, leased, or owned by the Feds. As for the Post Office parking lot, there are cases going either way. I'm telling my students not to do it.

[spec5]

 

 

As far as I know (and that ain't very far) You may not have a gun with you, period, when you are on Post Office property. No guns. Nada. Zip. Zero. Not on your person, not in a locked compartment in your car, not in FOID transport. No. No. No. Park somewhere close, lock up your gun and walk to the Post Office.

 

I think.

 

I think you are right

I think I'm right... You think I'm right... Somehow this is going to turn out very bad for the both of us

I used to work at the Main PO in Peoria and you could not have any firearms on USPS property and parking lots are included. Postal Inspectors don't back down. We are now all on the same page.

[deno56]

So is it legal to have a concealed handgun (CCL) in your vehicle in a Post Office parking lot in IL? I have seen the court case in CO about this very thing but not sure if it applies to IL as well. Anyone have the definitive answer? Molly?

NO

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

When comparing local, state and federal law, which one trumps? Err on the side of caution and err on which ever is most strict.

[Viper63]

Then what does this mean:

 

( Notwithstanding subsections (a), (a-5), and (a-10) of this Section except under paragraph (22) or (23) of subsection (a), any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area. A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle. For purposes of this subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container.

[howie]

Then what does this mean:

 

( Notwithstanding subsections (a), (a-5), and (a-10) of this Section except under paragraph (22) or (23) of subsection (a), any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area. A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle. For purposes of this subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container.

except under paragraph (22) or (23)........which read as follows....

 

(22) Any street, driveway, parking area, property, building, or facility, owned, leased, controlled, or used by a nuclear energy, storage, weapons, or development site or facility regulated by the federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The licensee shall not under any circumstance store a firearm or ammunition in his or her vehicle or in a compartment or container within a vehicle located anywhere in or on the street, driveway, parking area, property, building, or facility described in this paragraph.

(23) Any area where firearms are prohibited under federal law.

[lockman]

If the lot is not posted then you are fine. I have seen a few post offices where the entry to the lobby is not posted but the doors going into the area that is open during regular hours is posted. So you can get your PO Box or use the automated postage machine during off hours without violating the sign.

 

The carrying in a vehicle in public lots that are posted by USPS is evolving in case law but is still unlawful except for the federal district in Colorado.

[howie]

If the lot is not posted then you are fine. I have seen a few post offices where the entry to the lobby is not posted but the doors going into the area that is open during regular hours is posted. So you can get your PO Box or use the automated postage machine during off hours without violating the sign.

 

The carrying in a vehicle in public lots that are posted by USPS is evolving in case law but is still unlawful except for the federal district in Colorado.

I don't think so....

 

http://www.usacarry.com/carrying-concealed-post-office/

[chall]

So is it legal to have a concealed handgun (CCL) in your vehicle in a Post Office parking lot in IL? I have seen the court case in CO about this very thing but not sure if it applies to IL as well. Anyone have the definitive answer? Molly?

REALLY?!!! Off with your head!!!

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

Then what does this mean:

 

( Notwithstanding subsections (a), (a-5), and (a-10) of this Section except under paragraph (22) or (23) of subsection (a), any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area. A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle. For purposes of this subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container.

It means you won't be punished under the state or local but may be punished under the federal. Kind of like when the DEA prosecutes grows and dispensaries of Marijuana in states that say it is legal to grown and dispense, the DEA still says No No.

[mauserme]

The Postmaster General is empowered to make regulations, including penalties.

 

Don't confuse state law with Federal regulation.

[xd9subcompact]

My goodness. Would it help if we took a look at what the regulation actually says?

Here is the poster we are all so familiar with:

http://about.usps.com/posters/pos158/welcome.htm

 

It references Title 39, Part 232, regulation 232.1.

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2003-title39-vol1/pdf/CFR-2003-title39-vol1-sec232-1.pdf

 

Here is the highlights:

 

 

232.1 Conduct on postal property.

(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.

( b Inspection, recording presence.

(1) Purses, briefcases, and other containers brought into, while on, or being removed from the property are subject to inspection. However, items brought directly to a postal facility’s customer mailing acceptance area and deposited in the mail are not subject to inspection, except as provided by section 274 of the Administrative Support Manual. A person arrested for violation of this section may be searched incident to that arrest.

(2) Vehicles and their contents brought into, while on, or being removed from restricted nonpublic areas are subject to inspection. A prominently displayed sign shall advise in advance that vehicles and their contents are subject to inspection when entering the restricted nonpublic area, while in the confines of the area, or when leaving the area. Persons entering these areas who object and refuse

to consent to the inspection of the vehicle, its contents, or both, may be denied entry; after entering the area without objection, consent shall be implied.

A full search of a person and any vehicle driven or occupied by the person may accompany an arrest.

So the question becomes: Is the parking lot area a restricted non-public area? Is it in fact posted in accordance with this rule?

Where I live, the parking lots are not fenced. They are not controlled. There are no signs outdoors.

 

And I'm sure that someone will say that these are federal facilities and are therefore prohibited by federal law. Do I need to post the references to the federal laws that say that they must be posted also?

 

Bottom line: No signs, no problem.

 

PS: that reference to section 274 of the Administrative Support manual has to do with someone screwing around with someone else's mail.