Really Carol -- I thought you were better than this. . .

[Tvandermyde]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/marin/14206689-452/i-tried-to-fire-a-tec-9-but-it-took-control.html

 

I tried to fire a TEC-9, but it took control

BY CAROL MARIN cmarin@suntimes.com August 3, 2012 7:02PM

 

 

 

In 1989, I came close — we’ll never know how close — to shooting a producer and cameraman with a TEC-9 assault weapon.

 

We were at a suburban gun range with a law-enforcement agent doing a story on how semiautomatic weapons can be illegally modified into automatic weapons, making them deadlier still.

The gun I was given to fire was a fully automatic TEC-9 pistol with a magazine of bullets. The target was straight ahead. My crew was far off to the right and safely — or so we all thought — out of the way.

But with one trigger pull, the weapon took control. My right arm jolted in an arc upward and to the right.

My crew, with lightning speed, dropped to the ground. The whole thing took just seconds.

Terrified?

 

 

We all were.

 

You could argue that’s what happens when an inexperienced person handles an assault weapon.

 

Tom Ahern, senior special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Chicago and an expert marksman, would tell you otherwise.

 

“I’ve been shooting for 32 years,” he said by phone Thursday. “If I fired a fully automatic TEC-9 one-handed, it could jump up or down, right or left . . . the gun could flutter . . . and you could dump a 50-round clip in under five seconds. It’s going to spray all over the place.”

 

And holding it with both hands, he said, won’t significantly improve accuracy.

 

Why are we talking about this?

 

Because on the streets of Chicago, there are all kinds of guns — legal and illegal. And all kinds of people getting shot — intended victims plus people who end up as the collateral damage of a barrage of bullets.

 

Even legal, semiautomatic assault weapons aren’t precision instruments. Though each bullet fired requires a separate squeeze of the trigger (unlike fully automatic weapons), after the first round is fired, the trigger loosens for subsequent rounds. It still takes only seconds to dump a high-capacity magazine.

 

That’s what happened in the theater massacre in Aurora, Colo. That’s what happens out on our streets.

 

Both Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg want to revive the ban on assault weapons in this country, a ban that expired in 2004.

 

In the campaign of 2008, Barack Obama was for that too, but in the campaign of 2012, neither Obama nor Republican Mitt Romney talk much about guns.

 

That discussion is often led by victims of gun violence. Mothers such as Deetreena Perteet, whose 14-year-old son, Ondelee, was shot in the face in 2009. A bullet hit his chin, neck and spinal cord.

“He is able to walk a little,” she said on Friday. But Mrs. Perteet had to quit her job to care for her son. They struggle financially and medically every day.

 

No gun was recovered, so we don’t know if it was an assault weapon that blew a hole in their lives. But what we do know is that, as a category of gun, assault weapons serve neither sporting nor marksmanship purposes.

 

Assault weapons just spray death.

 

You’d think more politicians would want to talk about that.

[highspeed]

Whichever way the wind blows!!!

[Tvandermyde]

My response. I think we should all email her and let her know how we feel about this kinda stuff. My reply below.

 

Carol – I just read your column about your experience at a range

 

I will say that was a horse **** piece if I ever read one. Your experience at the range had nothing to do with the proposed legislation by Governor Quinn.

 

You were firing a fully automatic TEC-9. What we call a machine pistol. A gun that is illegal under current Illinois law unless you are a law enforcement agency, federal agency or DoD. A gun tightly controlled under the National Firearms Act.Your column implies that the debate about the legislation is to outlaw machineguns and full autos, not so. As a matter of fact the Governor’s amendatory veto is written so broadly, that it would outlaw the sale of all new Glock handguns in the state of Illinois.

 

It would outlaw a large number of hunting guns, Remington 11/87 shotguns used for deer hunting, Benelli shotguns used for turkey hunting, Ruger 10/22s used for squirrel hunting just to name a few.

Currently, the national highpower rifle championships are taking place at Camp Perry in Ohio. The most common firearm used in the service rifle category is an AR-15.

 

If your opinion is that semi-automatic firearms should be banned – you’re entitled to it. What you are not entitled to is the yellow journalism of trying to paint a bad range experience with an illegal firearm as the deadly weapons being talked about in the legislation. If you want to know why most gun owners and NRA members don’t trust the media, it’s because of columns like yours. Columns that play of the anti-gun extremists agenda that was set out years ago by Josh Sugarman of the Violence Policy Center (VPC). Where he said:

 

"Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons." -Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

 

You're guilty of the same thing.

 

If anything, you should be blaming the less than professional instruction you had by some alleged professionals who thought it ok to put a machine pistol in the hands of an inexperienced person.

Every month I try to shoot a little friendly completion. About 60 of us show up to shoot a practical rifle course, and yes we use those semi-auto that you and the Governor want to ban. Matter of fact next month about 300 or more of us will get together for the annual Zombie shoot. And you guessed it, we will be using those so called “assault rifles”.

 

If you really want to see what these guns are and how they really shoot and people use them, let me know and I’ll take you out to the range. The least you can do is to get the other side of the story, and some reasonably professional instruction.

 

Todd Vandermyde

[burningspear]

Excellent response. Powerful, thought-provoking counter to her sloppy, uninformed writing.

[RECarry]

If Carol Marin wants to write about uncontrolled, dangerous abuse of power, why not expose Madigan's grip on a state that is sinking deeper into debt while cronies enrich themselves at our expense?

 

When my mom moved to Illinois from upstate NY, she caught on right away that many Chicago newscasters are tools.

[mauserme]

If anything, you should be blaming the less than professional instruction you had by some alleged professionals who thought it ok to put a machine pistol in the hands of an inexperienced person.

 

That was exactly my thought. It really seemed as if she was set up to fail, perhaps willingly so.

[SFC Stu]

Excellent response. Powerful, thought-provoking counter to her sloppy, uninformed writing.

 

I must agree. The only reason that she almost shot someone is because of stupidity. Ever hear of firearms safetly rules? No one present had a functional brain or this would not have happened!

[RandyP]

In the Nanny State mentality that leaves us all as its subjects - we ban the fork because some folks are obese and try to regulated the size of the glass so that some folks won't drink too much - yet we NEVER ban the car that kills in the hands of the drunk driver? Why? Because everyone understands that the car was just the tool the illegal drunk driver used and it would be foolishly stupid to ban an item used safely every day by everyone because of the actions of a small percentage of its owners. Most folks these days have NO positive firearm interaction in their lives and only judge those particular tools based on the actions of the criminals.

[Blackhawk067]

Wow......

 

Simply...........wow.

 

Nice job Todd. I just sent my response as well. Nothing heated or emotional, simply logical much along the lines of yours.

 

Absolutely irresponsible piece of journalism and absolutely reckless and stupid experiment by all those involved in this "journalist's" "brush with death".

[Blackhawk067]

My response:

 

Carol,

 

The short of it is exactly this:

 

You "almost shot your crew" because you and those around you were grossly negligent and well, just downright stupid.

 

For someone to put a "machine pistol" in the hands of someone with zero gun experience and expect a less than dangerous outcome, was just astoundingly ignorant and dangerous.

 

I don't know which law enforcement agency and gun range oversaw this reckless and stupid experiment, but it was criminally negligent and if someone got hurt, or worse, killed, there would have been no one to blame but the lot of you involved.

 

This piece of ignorant "journalism" is intended to do one thing and one thing only....scare the heck out people because you and people who are supposed to be professionals, did something that no responsible gun owner, range operator or law enforcement officer with any shred of intelligence would ever allow.

 

Yes, criminals who have zero regard for human life, do not make it a priority to receive the proper training and learn responsibility with firearms. Congratulations, what a breakthrough you've made.

 

Now, why don't you do the responsible thing as a "journalist" and come to a competition shoot, or a range where people actually take the handling of firearms with the seriousness that most of us do and where these big bad scary "assault weapons" are used regularly without incident and without a camera crew DOWNRANGE where the danger is needlessly increased?

 

I gather your goal here, however, is not to do fair-sided piece of journalism, but rather to scare the living heck out of anyone uneducated on the subject to fall in line with your views and continue to see only what those of you against these weapons want them to see....a misguided and misinformed obtuse view of what you refer to as "assault weapons" whose only purpose is to "spray death".

 

Bravo.

[GarandFan]

Carol Martin AND that law enforcement agent are both utter fools. It is amazing how well fools can pass the buck of responsibility.

 

Watch for more of these "guns are scary and evil" articles in the near future.

[Kipp Jones]

We will implement the AWB as soon as we pull "Freedom of the Press" and "Freedom of Speech", ok Carol........????

[Jaybuck]

Carol's comments were unnecessarily out of line & out of context to the assault gun ban. The comments about mechanically altering a good operating AR is absurd. It can be done but what is the advantage? No competition shooter would alter his piece & I doubt that many gang bangers do either. No way of knowing but I bet the number of fully autos on the street in Chicago is no more than your fingers on one hand. Carol got her first firearm lesson the hard way; be familiar with your gun. Not being familiar with it made her unsafe to herself & everyone around her. Someone evidently set her up or failed in their ethical duty to inform her & familiarize her with the action the gun would take. The more I think about this the more I think this whole scenario was staged in one way or another as to cast a cloud over the many favorite guns in the hands of legal shooters & stack weight on the gun ban proposal.. It is simply a pi$$ poor article........ Just my opinion. Everyone has theirs..

[colt-45]

Carol's comments were unnecessarily out of line & out of context to the assault gun ban. The comments about mechanically altering a good operating AR is absurd. It can be done but what is the advantage? No competition shooter would alter his piece & I doubt that many gang bangers do either. No way of knowing but I bet the number of fully autos on the street in Chicago is no more than your fingers on one hand. Carol got her first firearm lesson the hard way; be familiar with your gun. Not being familiar with it made her unsafe to herself & everyone around her. Someone evidently set her up or failed in their ethical duty to inform her & familiarize her with the action the gun would take. The more I think about this the more I think this whole scenario was staged in one way or another as to cast a cloud over the many favorite guns in the hands of legal shooters & stack weight on the gun ban proposal.. It is simply a pi$$ poor article........ Just my opinion. Everyone has theirs..

+1

[357]

I think she made up that story like the rest of the propaganda she was paid to write.

[357]

"No gun was recovered, so we don’t know if it was an assault weapon that blew a hole in their lives. But what we do know is that, as a category of gun, assault weapons serve neither sporting nor marksmanship purposes."

 

That's exatly the purpose they serve sporting and marksmanship. Also self defense, a liar would say otherwise.

 

 

"Assault weapons just spray death."

 

You just spray lies. They should call you propagandist not jurnalist.

[oneshot]

She's trying to associate an alarmist view on a weapon that is not legal with a legal weapon type for an epidemic that hasn't been happening. It's utter foolishness. I don't see how anyone but the die hard anti could be fooled by it.

[sirflyguy]

She's trying to associate an alarmist view on a weapon that is not legal with a legal weapon type for an epidemic that hasn't been happening. It's utter foolishness. I don't see how anyone but the die hard anti could be fooled by it.

And yet they are fooled. I spent a day or two off and on trying to get a person on Facebook (who supposedly supports the 2nd Amendment) to understand that the way the media and Gov. Quinn uses the phrase "assault weapon" is inaccurate. It was like talking to a mentally deficient dog. She just kept coming back to "but why does anyone but the police or military need one of those?" All they see is the hysteria and emotion that the media and govt officials have spread for years, and they parrot it back. Lies work with deceiving and indoctrinating the uneducated and ignorant, so they keep spreading them.

[Davey]

Okay let me get this straight. Smeone gave an experience shooter a full magazine and a full auto? Also why would the F'ing crew be IN FRONT of her.

 

Really?

[357]

Yeah right a trained professional gave a woman full auto first time shooting with people in the line of fire? creative journalism liar total bs.

[LYU370]

I think a quote from the old SNL skit with Dan Acroyd & Jane Curtin is appropriate here.

 

Carol, you ignorant slu...

[mrpapageorgio]

She's trying to associate an alarmist view on a weapon that is not legal with a legal weapon type for an epidemic that hasn't been happening. It's utter foolishness. I don't see how anyone but the die hard anti could be fooled by it.

And yet they are fooled. I spent a day or two off and on trying to get a person on Facebook (who supposedly supports the 2nd Amendment) to understand that the way the media and Gov. Quinn uses the phrase "assault weapon" is inaccurate. It was like talking to a mentally deficient dog. She just kept coming back to "but why does anyone but the police or military need one of those?" All they see is the hysteria and emotion that the media and govt officials have spread for years, and they parrot it back. Lies work with deceiving and indoctrinating the uneducated and ignorant, so they keep spreading them.

 

What's the best response (based on everyone's experience) for "Why does anyone need one" besides "it's my right to own one"? I seem to keep running into that wall when talking to people about it.

[oneshot]

She's trying to associate an alarmist view on a weapon that is not legal with a legal weapon type for an epidemic that hasn't been happening. It's utter foolishness. I don't see how anyone but the die hard anti could be fooled by it.

And yet they are fooled. I spent a day or two off and on trying to get a person on Facebook (who supposedly supports the 2nd Amendment) to understand that the way the media and Gov. Quinn uses the phrase "assault weapon" is inaccurate. It was like talking to a mentally deficient dog. She just kept coming back to "but why does anyone but the police or military need one of those?" All they see is the hysteria and emotion that the media and govt officials have spread for years, and they parrot it back. Lies work with deceiving and indoctrinating the uneducated and ignorant, so they keep spreading them.

 

What's the best response (based on everyone's experience) for "Why does anyone need one" besides "it's my right to own one"? I seem to keep running into that wall when talking to people about it.

 

The nice thing about living in a free country is that you don't have to qualify your "need" for one item or another. But since they'll insist, I would point them to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the fact that we're in an economy that's in a spiral, that climate change is bringing about conditions that are making life very difficult, that's putting even more pressure on our flagging economy, not one of us can say with certainty that our civilization will march on in the same condition that it is today. Scientists warn that we're due for another massive electromagnetic discharge from the sun like one that last visited us in the nineteenth century, knocking out telegraph systems across the world, think of what it will do in our highly technologically dependent civilization? It boils down to you as a person determining for yourself what you "need" for any circumstance that you can foresee. If they don't like it, it's none of their damn business.

[Steve O]

My very sensible Mom who hasn't a clue asked me why I should have mine.....

 

I just said that none of this is new, the basic design dates back over 100 years.... The M16 (1960's) that was full auto was a crappy gun compared to the M14 and they finally got it right but it's still inadequate fighting OLD Mosins and other 7.62X54R Combloc semi auto's...

 

The AR 15 is just a civilian version of this underpowered battle riffle, the .308 version is another story....

 

Anyone with a brain (Moms real smart and I love her) can figure out it's not the object AND Government has NEVER been the solution...

[mrpapageorgio]

The nice thing about living in a free country is that you don't have to qualify your "need" for one item or another. But since they'll insist, I would point them to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the fact that we're in an economy that's in a spiral, that climate change is bringing about conditions that are making life very difficult, that's putting even more pressure on our flagging economy, not one of us can say with certainty that our civilization will march on in the same condition that it is today. Scientists warn that we're due for another massive electromagnetic discharge from the sun like one that last visited us in the nineteenth century, knocking out telegraph systems across the world, think of what it will do in our highly technologically dependent civilization? It boils down to you as a person determining for yourself what you "need" for any circumstance that you can foresee. If they don't like it, it's none of their damn business.

 

Thanks, it's just sometimes you run into people who won't let go of that argument. I'm usually able to counter "why do we need fancy cars, houses, clothes etc?" Which gets them to the "none of those are made to kill." Then I argue how they're made for self-defense, hunting, and mine have never killed anyone. Which leads them to say that they still allow people to kill many in a short amount of time which leads to my ace in the hole about Timothy McVeigh killed 200 and injure 600 by only needing to buy items you could get at a gas station and hardware store (conspiracy theories aside) and we don't regulate those items. "The bad guys will find a way to do harm even if guns are banned" which most have conceded after that argument, but some still like to spin or won't let go of one argument.

[vezpa]

/ingore, /forget, /idontcare, /lies

[SFC Stu]

She's trying to associate an alarmist view on a weapon that is not legal with a legal weapon type for an epidemic that hasn't been happening. It's utter foolishness. I don't see how anyone but the die hard anti could be fooled by it.

And yet they are fooled. I spent a day or two off and on trying to get a person on Facebook (who supposedly supports the 2nd Amendment) to understand that the way the media and Gov. Quinn uses the phrase "assault weapon" is inaccurate. It was like talking to a mentally deficient dog. She just kept coming back to "but why does anyone but the police or military need one of those?" All they see is the hysteria and emotion that the media and govt officials have spread for years, and they parrot it back. Lies work with deceiving and indoctrinating the uneducated and ignorant, so they keep spreading them.

 

What's the best response (based on everyone's experience) for "Why does anyone need one" besides "it's my right to own one"? I seem to keep running into that wall when talking to people about it.

 

Need? Need? Since when does need have anything to do with this?

[mrpapageorgio]

 

 

Need? Need? Since when does need have anything to do with this?

 

I'm in full agreement that need should have nothing to do with my choice to buy a firearm, you're preaching to the choir, however when debating or arguing with someone who won't let go of why we need some of the firearms they like, it's nice to see what other people here have said besides, "It's might right to own one" which a lot of times does no good. Oneshot gave a good example of never knowing when you may need it, being over prepared than under. I was just seeing what other counterarguments people here have used.

[LYU370]

While I don't have one, yet, thanks Crook County. My response is usually: I don't know what I need it for until the time comes when I'll have to use it. But when that time comes, I'm sure I'll be glad that I have it.

[Uncle Harley]

Whenever the Need question comes up I point to the fact that my 5 yr old daughter can not safely shoulder a regular rifle and needs one with an adjustable stock in order to fit her properly, and you cant put a price on your kids safety. Lol this usually gets them really fired up lol