zozmanCCW Posted August 7, 2023 at 01:58 PM Share Posted August 7, 2023 at 01:58 PM Update: 08/07/23 The bottom line: All ISP certified instructors are required to possess a valid CCL to teach. Additionally- and this is new since 2014 when JCAR changed that- when those instructors are renewing their license CCL, if they are not carrying under LEOSA or IROCC, they are required to send a completed 3-hour certification with it. I am an instuctor in good standing and had submitted my renewal with the exemption checked. My exemption was based upon Public Safety (430 ILCS 66/ Firearms Concealed Carry Act (Source: P. A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13, section 75(h) Applicant Firearms Training, instructors are exempt from re-certification. My renewal was rejected. I appealed to the ISP Review Board and the clarification came today. Good morning, Mr. XXXX Upon your request for re-determination it has been discovered that there has been no error. The exemption you are claiming expired in April of 2014, as stated in the JCAR Rules regarding CCL. Since April of 2014 all ISP instructors have been required to have an ILCCL unless they are legally allowed to have a CCL to carry a firearm (i.e. having an active LEOSA or IROCC, or being an active LEO with full carry privileges). TITLE 20: CORRECTIONS, CRIMINAL JUSTICE, AND LAW ENFORCEMENT CHAPTER II: ILLINOIS STATE POLICE PART 1231 FIREARM CONCEALED CARRY ACT PROCEDURES SECTION 1231.20 INSTRUCTOR APPROVAL Section 1231.20 Instructor Approval a) Applicants for Concealed Carry Firearm Instructor (Instructor) approval shall meet the requirements of Section 80 of the Act and shall maintain: 1) A valid Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) Card or, if an out-of-state resident, the applicant must meet all of the eligibility requirements to obtain a FOID Card other than Illinois residency (see 20 Ill. Adm. Code 1230); and 2) After April 16, 2014, a valid FCCL, unless the applicant is not required to possess an FCCL to conceal and carry handguns in Illinois, or, if the applicant is an out-of-state resident not from a substantially similar state, that person shall provide proof to the Department upon request that he or she is not required to possess an FCCL to conceal and carry handguns in Illinois, or that he or she is eligible to carry under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence. In order to remain an ILCCL instructor, you must provide a completed and signed 3-hour training certificate from a valid ILCCL instructor. Please provide this certificate within 60 days or your instructor license will be revoked until all requirements are satisfied. You may respond directly to this account. Thank you, ISP CCL My view: The benefit to being a CCL instructor formerly was that I was exempt from shooting qualifications. But that exemption is apparently gone. As an instuctor, I would not recertify myself. They gave me that option but I would not recommend that. They'll probably throw that one out too. I took the re-certification class Saturday. I found the class refreshing and got a chance to shoot. I'll probably take it every year. zoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 7, 2023 at 02:52 PM Share Posted August 7, 2023 at 02:52 PM On 8/7/2023 at 8:58 AM, zozmanCCW said: The exemption you are claiming expired in April of 2014, as stated in the JCAR Rules regarding CCL. Since April of 2014 all ISP instructors have been required to have an ILCCL unless they are legally allowed to have a CCL to carry a firearm (i.e. having an active LEOSA or IROCC, or being an active LEO with full carry privileges). 2) After April 16, 2014, a valid FCCL, unless the applicant is not required to possess an FCCL to conceal and carry handguns in Illinois, or, if the applicant is an out-of-state resident not from a substantially similar state, that person shall provide proof to the Department upon request that he or she is not required to possess an FCCL to conceal and carry handguns in Illinois, or that he or she is eligible to carry under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence. In order to remain an ILCCL instructor, you must provide a completed and signed 3-hour training certificate from a valid ILCCL instructor. Please provide this certificate within 60 days or your instructor license will be revoked until all requirements are satisfied. Are you an LEO and not required to have an IL CCL? My reading is that the 3-hour training cert is required for instructors who are not required to have an Illinois CCL... LEOs who do not have an IL CCL and out of state instructors who are not eligible for the IL CCL because they reside in a not substantially similar state. - I have a current and valid FOID and IL CCL - I renewed my IL CCL 5 years ago without the 3-hour training certificate - I am in the process of renewing my IL CCL again - I keep my NRA Training Credentials up to date As far as I can tell, nothing has changed. An IL CCL Instructor who resides in Illinois, with current credentials and a current FOID and IL CCL, should still be exempt from the 3-hour training certificate. I suppose I will know if I am mistaken if I am rejected for lack of a training certificate. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 10, 2023 at 03:25 PM Share Posted August 10, 2023 at 03:25 PM I received an email notice of a status change for my CCL renewal this morning and logged on to see what changed... WooHoo! With 33 days left out of 90: Quote We have completed our initial review of your submission and have determined that all necessary items are preset. Your application has been moved to the background review queue. Sure seems like it takes a long time to check to see if you submitted all required items... Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ming Posted August 12, 2023 at 09:17 PM Share Posted August 12, 2023 at 09:17 PM (edited) On 8/7/2023 at 9:52 AM, soundguy said: Are you an LEO and not required to have an IL CCL? My reading is that the 3-hour training cert is required for instructors who are not required to have an Illinois CCL... LEOs who do not have an IL CCL and out of state instructors who are not eligible for the IL CCL because they reside in a not substantially similar state. - I have a current and valid FOID and IL CCL - I renewed my IL CCL 5 years ago without the 3-hour training certificate - I am in the process of renewing my IL CCL again - I keep my NRA Training Credentials up to date As far as I can tell, nothing has changed. An IL CCL Instructor who resides in Illinois, with current credentials and a current FOID and IL CCL, should still be exempt from the 3-hour training certificate. I suppose I will know if I am mistaken if I am rejected for lack of a training certificate. Cheers, Tim I just renewed my CCL and I am an IL CCL instructor. I am not a LEO. At some point in the process I got a message saying that my application needed the 3 hour training certificate. It also stated that as an instructor I could fill out the certificate for myself. I did as directed even though it seemed rather strange. I emailed it in and received my new CCL about a week later after being moved to the background review queue. Edited August 12, 2023 at 09:22 PM by ming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 13, 2023 at 02:37 AM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 02:37 AM On 8/12/2023 at 4:17 PM, ming said: I just renewed my CCL and I am an IL CCL instructor. I am not a LEO. At some point in the process I got a message saying that my application needed the 3 hour training certificate. It also stated that as an instructor I could fill out the certificate for myself. I did as directed even though it seemed rather strange. I emailed it in and received my new CCL about a week later after being moved to the background review queue. Interesting. Do you reside in Illinois? Mine moved to the background check queue without a request for the 3 hour training certificate. I hope this indicates I will be receiving my new CCL in a week or so. If you live in Illinois, I would sure like to know why you and I were treated differently. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ming Posted August 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM On 8/12/2023 at 9:37 PM, soundguy said: Interesting. Do you reside in Illinois? Mine moved to the background check queue without a request for the 3 hour training certificate. I hope this indicates I will be receiving my new CCL in a week or so. If you live in Illinois, I would sure like to know why you and I were treated differently. Cheers, Tim I do live in Illinois. It does seem strange that an instructor may (or may not) need a 3-hour certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilguy Posted August 13, 2023 at 11:44 AM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 11:44 AM One may or may not get a free FOID renewal with their CCL. Seems there are no experts on this system we can depend on now. Roll the dice, take your chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zozmanCCW Posted August 13, 2023 at 12:48 PM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 12:48 PM I'm an currently valid CCL instructor (former LEO) but not a current LEO nor carrying under LEOSA or IROCC. As previously posted, they made me add a 3-hour cert to my CCL application. So...I went to a class held by another instructor (I don't believe in self-certifying), bcame a student had some fun shooting and found the class refreshing! I'll do it every year because police officers certify every year at least, some twice a year and practice shooting makes a better defensive technique. Also, I'm happy they also charged me $11 for the FOID. Additionally, since they did this to me as an instructor, I am no longer updating any teaching credentials if the ISP does not ask for them. zoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 13, 2023 at 01:09 PM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 01:09 PM On 8/13/2023 at 6:26 AM, ming said: I do live in Illinois. It does seem strange that an instructor may (or may not) need a 3-hour certificate. You're the canary in the coal mine! It appears there has been a change to the documentation requirements for instructors. I just checked the portal and I've been rejected pending upload of my three hour certification and I'm looking for the form now. Where the heck did I put that... Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted August 13, 2023 at 01:13 PM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 01:13 PM I have sent an inquiry to ISP about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 13, 2023 at 01:59 PM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 01:59 PM On 8/13/2023 at 8:13 AM, Molly B. said: I have sent an inquiry to ISP about this. Thank you Molly! Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zozmanCCW Posted August 13, 2023 at 02:21 PM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 02:21 PM I do not recommend self-certifying the 3-hour class. It's a conflict of interest, a possible ISP auditing issue down the road and possible future CCL application rejection. Take the class and keep the cert because, as of now, they do not expire. That's next to go. Oh, and when you qualify shooting, take a photo of the B-27 with your 30 holes because sooner or later... zoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 13, 2023 at 03:02 PM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 03:02 PM On 8/13/2023 at 8:59 AM, soundguy said: Thank you Molly! *… for your inquiry and being our point person with ISP. On 8/13/2023 at 8:59 AM, soundguy said: Just thinking, again… It would be nice to get clarification on instructors being able to self certify, if that is possible. I would also love to know why renewal applications seem to spend 2/3s of the allowed time for approval in the “submitted” but have not verified any aspect of application queue. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted August 13, 2023 at 07:14 PM Share Posted August 13, 2023 at 07:14 PM On August 13, 2023 at 10:02 AM, soundguy said:→... I would also love to know why renewal applications seem to spend 2/3s of the allowed time for approval in the “submitted” but have not verified any aspect of application queue. ... Delay is part of the procedure. Respect authority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrlivin2 Posted August 14, 2023 at 04:01 PM Share Posted August 14, 2023 at 04:01 PM On 8/13/2023 at 8:13 AM, Molly B. said: I have sent an inquiry to ISP about this. Thank you for researching this Molly. I’m also an instructor and will be renewing my CCL later this year so I’m interested in knowing what ISP tells you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted August 14, 2023 at 07:22 PM Share Posted August 14, 2023 at 07:22 PM We should do an Instructor Meetup at a range and certify ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted August 20, 2023 at 01:15 AM Share Posted August 20, 2023 at 01:15 AM Think about this. I'm an instructor and teach the renewal class each week (not me right now). And I need to renew, why would I need to take a class that I'm teaching already? Redundant? When I renewed it popped me over to questions and the pay button and it never asked for nor did I submit and cert. Got my renewed CCL AND the extend FOID in 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 20, 2023 at 02:04 AM Share Posted August 20, 2023 at 02:04 AM On 8/19/2023 at 8:15 PM, Bubbacs said: Think about this. I'm an instructor and teach the renewal class each week (not me right now). And I need to renew, why would I need to take a class that I'm teaching already? Redundant? When I renewed it popped me over to questions and the pay button and it never asked for nor did I submit and cert. Got my renewed CCL AND the extend FOID in 3 months. I agree with you. It’s silly. Hoping for a change back to what it was 5 years ago. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted August 20, 2023 at 04:36 AM Share Posted August 20, 2023 at 04:36 AM On 8/19/2023 at 8:15 PM, Bubbacs said: Think about this. I'm an instructor and teach the renewal class each week (not me right now). And I need to renew, why would I need to take a class that I'm teaching already? Redundant? When I renewed it popped me over to questions and the pay button and it never asked for nor did I submit and cert. Got my renewed CCL AND the extend FOID in 3 months. Good point. Maybe it is ok to self certify then. I'm gonna try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted August 20, 2023 at 11:39 PM Share Posted August 20, 2023 at 11:39 PM On 8/19/2023 at 11:36 PM, spanishjames said: Good point. Maybe it is ok to self certify then. I'm gonna try it. Just FYI I’m not a lawyer. Wish MollyB had news from the ISP inquiry. But then they are slow right? MollyB are we hoping for an official response soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 20, 2023 at 11:45 PM Share Posted August 20, 2023 at 11:45 PM On 8/12/2023 at 4:17 PM, ming said: I just renewed my CCL and I am an IL CCL instructor. I am not a LEO. At some point in the process I got a message saying that my application needed the 3 hour training certificate. It also stated that as an instructor I could fill out the certificate for myself. I did as directed even though it seemed rather strange. I emailed it in and received my new CCL about a week later after being moved to the background review queue. On 8/19/2023 at 11:36 PM, spanishjames said: Good point. Maybe it is ok to self certify then. I'm gonna try it. Read earlier post from Ming above. An indication that self certification is allowed. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted August 21, 2023 at 06:00 AM Share Posted August 21, 2023 at 06:00 AM On 8/20/2023 at 6:45 PM, soundguy said: Read earlier post from Ming above. An indication that self certification is allowed. Cheers, Tim Thanks, I see that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captdan Posted August 22, 2023 at 10:03 PM Share Posted August 22, 2023 at 10:03 PM I just now renewed my CCL on line. I am CCL instructor. Simple process that took less than two minutes. Check the box that your ARE a ISP certified CCL Instructor and then asked for my CCT number and proceeded with out any requests for any other documents besides my pic. Payment completed. I Had Not expired. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted August 22, 2023 at 10:17 PM Share Posted August 22, 2023 at 10:17 PM On 8/22/2023 at 5:03 PM, captdan said: I just now renewed my CCL on line. I am CCL instructor. Simple process that took less than two minutes. Check the box that your ARE a ISP certified CCL Instructor and then asked for my CCT number and proceeded with out any requests for any other documents besides my pic. Payment completed. I Had Not expired. Hope this helps. Yep. Did the same thing. Same status. Same prompts. Got kicked back after 60 days. Be prepared to self certify. With any luck Molly will fix it for us?! Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted August 22, 2023 at 10:18 PM Share Posted August 22, 2023 at 10:18 PM On 8/20/2023 at 6:39 PM, Bubbacs said: Just FYI I’m not a lawyer. Wish MollyB had news from the ISP inquiry. But then they are slow right? MollyB are we hoping for an official response soon? I always expect it to be at least 30 days for a reply. Sometimes I'm surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captdan Posted August 23, 2023 at 09:15 PM Share Posted August 23, 2023 at 09:15 PM On 8/22/2023 at 5:17 PM, soundguy said: Yep. Did the same thing. Same status. Same prompts. Got kicked back after 60 days. Be prepared to self certify. With any luck Molly will fix it for us?! Cheers, Tim Glad I started early Tim. Thanks for the additional info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilguy Posted August 25, 2023 at 10:46 PM Share Posted August 25, 2023 at 10:46 PM Both FOID and CCL renewed on 6/28, paid for both. FOID approved quickly, CCL came through 8/22. Done for a few years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zozmanCCW Posted September 15, 2023 at 07:34 PM Share Posted September 15, 2023 at 07:34 PM This was the worst experience renewing my FOID and CCL I have ever gone through. As an instructor, the ISP made me go through a 3-hour certification process in which I chose to take the class. I recommend others paying for their FOID first, then the CCL the next day. I was under the impression that if you paid for your CCL, you didn't have to pay for the FOID. In was in error. I was on vacation when I got a notice I had to pay for the FOID which only delayed my application weeks. Then, I couldn't pay it since the payment button on my dashboard was grayed out. I called the ISP hotline during regular business hours and used automated CC payment to do that. Then, I couldn't add the 3-hour cert to my dashboard either as there was no button to add it. I added it by email directly to the ISP. Who knows what the procedure will be next time. Final results: 6/9/23 CCL payment 8/5/23 3-Hour cert class 8/7/23 FOID payment 8/10/23 FOID approved 8/13/23 3-hour cert added 8/15/23 In review 9/15/23 CCL approved with prints Total days in process: 96 give or take zoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Ring Posted September 17, 2023 at 06:06 PM Share Posted September 17, 2023 at 06:06 PM Question: Since the CCL/FOID doesn't have an expiration date on it, will the ISP send me a reminder "X" amount of days before it expires or is it on me to know to renew before my CCL expires? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted September 17, 2023 at 06:25 PM Share Posted September 17, 2023 at 06:25 PM On 9/17/2023 at 1:06 PM, X Ring said: Question: Since the CCL/FOID doesn't have an expiration date on it, will the ISP send me a reminder "X" amount of days before it expires or is it on me to know to renew before my CCL expires? TIA Yes, they send a reminder by email... maybe by snail mail, as well. I believe mine came 120 days before expiration. Due to the vague complexities of renewing, it is probably best to do it right away rather than waiting to the last minute. I keep my expiration dates in the CCW App. You can also find that info at the ISP Website. Cheers, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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