Meyer v Raoul - Carry ban under-21

[mousegun6]

On 1/8/2023 at 5:52 PM, Molly B. said:

SAF files  PLAINTIFFS’ BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF THEIR MOTION FOR SUMMARY

 

https://www.saf.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Doc.-99-MOL-ISO-Superceding-MSJ.pdf

Well argued and on point. Let's hope the judge is brave enough to do what's right.

[Upholder]

Defendant's response to motion for summary judgement: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ilsd.87755/gov.uscourts.ilsd.87755.117.0.pdf

[Upholder]

[Upholder]

The state is apparently arguing that those under 21 are minors.  They have every right afforded to adults EXCEPT the ability to drink alcohol and violations of their second amendment rights:

 

[Upholder]

Plaintiff's response to defense's motion for summary judgement: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ilsd.87755/gov.uscourts.ilsd.87755.119.0.pdf

[Upholder]

The plaintiffs call out the state's "expert":

Quote

Finally, the State’s expert, Saul Cornell, is not a
reliable source on the history of firearm regulation in this country. He has derided Bruen as
“bonkers” for applying “fiction, fantasy, and mythology” as an interpretive model. Saul Cornell,
Cherry-picked history and ideology-driven outcomes: Bruen’s originalist distortions,
SCOTUSB LOG (Jun. 27, 2022), available at https://bit.ly/3Jp4EDa.

 

[Upholder]

 

[Euler]

Today the plaintiffs filed the summary judgment in Worth v Harrington as a supplemental authority.

  

On 3/31/2023 at 3:42 PM, Euler said:

On 3/31/2023 at 12:46 PM, steveTA84 said:

“Bidet” appointed judge strikes down MN under 21 carry ban 

BREAKING: Worth v. Harrington (D. MN): Judge strikes down Minnesota's under-21 carry ban, saying the state failed to show that it "is consistent with the nation’s history and tradition of firearm regulations as required by Bruen." https://t.co/fqzRt38Z2q pic.twitter.com/6dyY6v3j3W

— Rob Romano (@2Aupdates) March 31, 2023

 

The case is Worth v Harrington. Minnesota is in the 8^th US Circuit.

 

Summary Judgment said:

...

Judgment is granted to Plaintiffs on the issue of whether Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. 2(b)(2), violates the right of the individual Plaintiffs and the otherwise-qualified 18-20-year-old members of MGOC, SAF, and FPC to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Second and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution;

 

a. The Court declares that Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. 2(b)(2)'s requirement that a person must be at least 21 years of age to receive a permit to publicly carry a handgun in Minnesota violates the rights of individuals 18-20 years old to keep and bear arms protected by the Second and Fourteenth Amendments; and

 

b. Defendants are enjoined from enforcing the 21-year minimum-age requirement in Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. 2(b)(2), against the individual Plaintiffs and otherwise-qualified 18-20-year-olds;

...

Edited April 10, 2023 at 10:47 PM by Euler

[JTHunter]

There is a rare legal precedent that should be considered by those "under 21" citizens.  While this isn't as frequent as it used to be, there are still some people that get married shortly after high school graduation.  It strikes me that, in order to protect their families, these people are denied the ability to adequately protect their families.  There are also a few special citizens known as "emancipated minors".  These are young people that have "divorced" their families for various reasons and are allowed to live on their own and take care of themselves.  Granted, they are a rarity but they do exist, yet they too are denied the right to adequate self defense.

Edited April 12, 2023 at 03:02 AM by JTHunter

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

On 4/11/2023 at 10:02 PM, JTHunter said:

There is a rare legal precedent that should be considered by those "under 21" citizens.  While this isn't as frequent as it used to be, there are still some people that get married shortly after high school graduation.  It strikes me that, in order to protect their families, these people are denied the ability to adequately protect their families.  There are also a few special citizens known as "emancipated minors".  These are young people that have "divorced" their families for various reasons and are allowed to live on their own and take care of themselves.  Granted, they are a rarity but they do exist, yet they too are denied the right to adequate self defense.

If I remember correctly, there have been a couple of cases of emancipated minors being denied a FOID and then the state simply milks the cases until the person turns 21 and then the case is dismissed.  

[davel501]

This is a good watch on the mootness topic:

 

[JTHunter]

Good grief !!

He is so long-winded !!  And, if that is a toupee, he should get a better one !

[Euler]

On May 10, the plaintiffs filed for judicial notice (supplemental authority) of Worth v Harrington (21-CV-1348, District of Minnesota, March 31, 2023), where the court declared unconstitutional a Minnesota law that barred 18-to-20-year-olds from lawfully carrying handguns in public for self-defense.

[Euler]

On May 17, the plaintiffs filed for judicial notice (supplemental authority) of Fraser v ATF (22-cv-410, Eastern District of Virginia, May 10, 2023), where the court declared unconstitutional the federal law prohibiting 18-20-year-olds from lawfully purchasing handguns.

[Euler]

I'm just reviewing this docket, since Yandle is now the judge for Judicial Second Amendment Case Discussion > NSSF v. Raoul as well.

On April 10, the May 1 trial was canceled per a joint motion (i.e., by both plaintiffs and defendants, so it's not on the judge) pending a decision of cross-motions for summary judgment. There has been no decision on the motions for summary judgment. The youngest plaintiff (Ava Davis) was 18 when the suit was originally filed in May 2021. She'll be 21 soon (although I don't know when exactly), thus making the case moot.

[Euler]

FPC appears to be seeking some more plaintiffs.

FPC said:

...
If you or someone you know meets the following criteria, please reach out to us at 2AHotline.com

• Are currently 18-20 years old, or will be turning 18 within the next year.
• Currently reside within Illinois.
• Have a desire to purchase and carry a firearm, but are currently prohibited due to law.
• Wiling to actively participate in a lawsuit to defend your rights.

[splitaxe]

Has there been any movement on this case?

[Euler]

The case has been awaiting a ruling on the motions for summary judgment since May 2023. The youngest plaintiff turns 21 in 2024.

[mab22]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:40 PM, Euler said:

The case has been awaiting a ruling on the motions for summary judgment since May 2023. The youngest plaintiff turns 21 in 2024.

I’m sure as soon as the youngest plaintiff has a birthday, the overloaded judge and his overloaded staff will do their absolute darndest to get to that ruling!

Some of these judges are absolutely despicable, it should be a crime.  

[Euler]

In my email inbox from ISRA about 3 hours ago:

ISRA said:

IMMEDIATE ATTENTION REQUESTED:

A lawsuit is currently pending in the federal Southern District of Illinois regarding the Second Amendment rights of 18-20 year olds, who are prohibited under Illinois law from carrying a firearm in public for self-defense. The name of the case is Meyer v. Raoul. The attorneys for the Plaintiffs are seeking additional plaintiffs who are ages 18-20 and who have FOID cards to join the lawsuit. The attorneys are looking to add plaintiffs as soon as possible.

If you are or know an 18-20 year old with a FOID card who would carry a firearm for self-defense, but only do not because Illinois has made it illegal to do so, please contact attorney David G. Sigale at dsigale@sigalelaw.com. Please provide the person's name, address, e-mail address, phone number, and date of birth.

Thank you for your assistance.

LAW FIRM OF DAVID G. SIGALE, P.C.
55 West 22nd Street, Suite 230
Lombard, IL 60148

[splitaxe]

Thanks  I have one that just turned 18 that would go for this.  I’ll get ahold of him. 

[skinnyb82]

I see ISRA is actively attempting to recruit more plaintiffs for this case since the case will be mooted when plaintiff turns 18. This disgusts me. "Run out the clock...woopsie case is moot, please dismiss!"

[JTHunter]

Euler - didn't they change the age requirements recently to obtain a FOID to 21 ?

[John Q Public]

More for JTHunter

 

Under 21 still get a FOID. Yes, I know there was a bill floating, but to my knowledge it's still okay for under 21.

 

As to FOID card, there is more. To get a FOID under 21 you need permission from parent/guardian, or other loco parentis. Also, their permission notarized. The under 21 may not have convictions for pretty much anything other than speeding tickets. Adjudged delinquent etc

 

Also, the parent// must qualify for a FOID card or have a FOID card and if at any time the parent// becomes prohibited, so does the person who they sponsored.

 

Okay for under 21 take CC class, but follow FOID rules to do so. IE instructor, or someone with FOID transport etc.

 

If I am under 21 years of age, but I am married, can my spouse sign as my sponsor?

No. A parent or someone who has been appointed as your legal guardian by court order must be your sponsor.

 

There is a limited military exception to 21 for active duty.

If I am not 21 years of age, my parents are not living or are not eligible to be FOID sponsors, but am in the military, can I obtain a FOID Card?

Yes. The ISP can waive the sponsor requirement. Minors who are active duty military must also submit their Orders annually to the ISP for their FOID card to remain valid.

I also agree if you are old enough to go to war, then we don't take away the guns when you return, unless there are mental factors which create a danger to self or others.

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2024 at 07:26 PM by John Q Public

[JTHunter]

Thanks John.

I was wondering as I have nephew who is almost 18 and is going to be staying with his grandparents while he starts college.  The problem is his parent lost their FOID in a bitter divorce battle a few years ago.

[mab22]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:23 PM, JTHunter said:

Thanks John.

I was wondering as I have nephew who is almost 18 and is going to be staying with his grandparents while he starts college.  The problem is his parent lost their FOID in a bitter divorce battle a few years ago.

So at 18 he can get a loan in his name for college, go live in a dorm on his own (if he chooses), get an apartment if they want, vote, etc etc etc, but mommy and daddy need to give him and or the state permission to let him GET PERMISSION SLIP FROM THE STATE  to possess ONLY long guns. 

SMH!

[Upholder]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:41 PM, mab22 said:

PERMISSION SLIP FROM THE STATE  to possess ONLY long guns.

 

As far as I am aware, there is no limitation on adults aged 18 to 20 owning or possessing handguns, just a federal law prohibiting them from buying handguns from an FFL.  They are legally able to buy a handgun from a friend, be given one as a gift, etc.

[JTHunter]

Adding insult to injury, my nephew's grandfather told me recently that the nephew has apparently been around his "woke" schoolmates for too long and has lost interest in the firearms I had planned to leave him.  A big change from just 3-4 years ago. 🤢 🤮

[RECarry]

On 1/25/2024 at 4:14 PM, JTHunter said:

Adding insult to injury, my nephew's grandfather told me recently that the nephew has apparently been around his "woke" schoolmates for too long and has lost interest in the firearms I had planned to leave him.  A big change from just 3-4 years ago. 🤢 🤮

I can't imagine "woke" schoolmates are very good friends.  The nephew may realize he does need ways to defend himself in real life.

[mab22]

On 1/25/2024 at 4:14 PM, JTHunter said:

Adding insult to injury, my nephew's grandfather told me recently that the nephew has apparently been around his "woke" schoolmates for too long and has lost interest in the firearms I had planned to leave him.  A big change from just 3-4 years ago. 🤢 🤮

Take him for some fun shooting at range. Don’t make big deal out of it, just some fun.

I think my nephew looks forward to me coming cause it “guns times” 😇

Before he went off to a private high school we went out in the woods and let him see what happens to a watermelon with a 12 gauge hollow point slug. 🤡🤣 good times! It would be nice to have a holiday tradition of skeet shooting, lil cold but “gun times”!

As an uncle you get to do the “fun” stuff! 😁