Purchase limits in 2022? If so, clock starts when?

[anita_g]

Been a while since I've purchase a firearm and there have been so many changes over the last handful of years/so much conflicting info out there.

It looks like the 30 days between handgun purchases is only in Cook County, is that correct?

Purchasing more than one in a month can get you on a "list" though, right? If so - are we talking more than 2? Anyone know a quantity? (I just want two, and to get them bought and done with.)

 

And *if* it is 30 days, when does that clock start? It seems not everyone follows the same thing in regard to the actual 72 hour waiting period, so I wonder about that as well (if it exists).

 

Purchased online from RKGuns since I didn't hear back from my preferred FFL. Even though it was purchased last week and should arrive at their store this week, they count the 72 hours from the time you come in and fill out the 4473, which isn't done until they receive and get it checked in which does make sense in case there is an issue. (My preferred FFL says the 72 hour clock starts when my online order has been placed and I have order confirmation. I've red the written rules myself and it seems like it can be intepreted either way.)

 

 

Anyway, will you good folks fill me in on what the current rules and caveats are?

 

Thanks!

[anita_g]

It won't let me edit - wanted to clarify that I do know the 72 hours exists, just that some interpret differently, so I wonder on the 30 day thing (if it IS a thing) if that would be up for debate as well.

[soundguy]

Re the waiting period… it begins the moment you make a deal or whenever your receiving FFL says it does. Some buyers must wait longer due to delayed background checks. 
 

I don’t know anything about a Cook County thing. 
 

 

[Euler]

FFLs have to file a special form if anyone buys two or more handguns within a 5-day period. There's no limit on how many a person can purchase. It's just more paperwork for the FFL.

 

The 72-hour waiting period begins when the buyer and seller agree to the purchase. When transferred through an FFL, that waiting period doesn't change, but some FFLs choose to start the 72-hour period with something they can document rather than rely on the seller's documented time. Some FFLs start it when they receive the firearm into inventory. Some start it when they run the FTIP check on you. (I've never looked to see if there's a JCAR rule on it. I think some FFLs are just paranoid.)

 

There are some states (CA, MD, NJ) that limit handgun purchases to one per month, but Illinois isn't one of them. NYC and DC also have a one-per-month law. Chicago/Cook doesn't.

[soundguy]

 

... I do recall a couple years ago when picking up a pistol I purchased from a Cook County shop, they would not allow me to "add on" another gun. A Lake County shop had introduced me to this novel concept a year earlier... and I took advantage of it, buying a new new pistol on sale when I picked up a used pistol after the waiting period. The Cook County shops may play by more conservative rules because of Cook County.

[Euler]

On 3/14/2022 at 4:44 PM, Euler said:

... (I've never looked to see if there's a JCAR rule on it. I think some FFLs are just paranoid.)

...

 

In its entirety on the matter:

 

JCAR said:

Section 1235.110 Transfer of Firearms

The transfer of the firearm(s) associated with a particular inquiry shall only occur after the withholding of delivery provisions of Section 24-3 of the Criminal Code of 1961 [720 ILCS 5/24-3] and within 30 days after the approval to transfer has been provided by the Department.

 

So basically "FFLs must follow the law." It's good to know there's a rule that doesn't allow them to break the law.

 

Wait, is there a law that doesn't allow them not to follow the rule?

[2A4Cook]

My FFL has told me that they are required to report multiple handgun purchases within a 7 day period to Dart's office.

[quackersmacker]

On 3/14/2022 at 5:52 PM, 2A4Cook said:

My FFL has told me that they are required to report multiple handgun purchases within a 7 day period to Dart's office.

This sounds like a real overreach.  How does the authority and recordkeeping  of a federal FFL get hijacked by the Crook County sheriff's office?

[2A4Cook]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:13 PM, quackersmacker said:

This sounds like a real overreach.  How does the authority and recordkeeping  of a federal FFL get hijacked by the Crook County sheriff's office?

I have no clue if it's valid or not.  All that matters (IMO) is that the FFL is led to believe he must do so.  Mine is.  Personally, I doubt they have legal authority for this, but remember that the County has no authority to enforce a state preempted pistol mag limit, but online retailers insist on following it.

[soundguy]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:05 PM, 2A4Cook said:

remember that the County has no authority to enforce a state preempted pistol mag limit, but online retailers insist on following it.

 

I'm not sure.... but I think I've seen standard sized magazines for sale in at least one Cook County shop.

[2A4Cook]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:43 PM, soundguy said:

 

I'm not sure.... but I think I've seen standard sized magazines for sale in at least one Cook County shop.

Every Cook County shop I've ever been in sells them.  The county ban is only effective in unincorporated areas and non home rule municipalities without their own firearms ordinances.  Also, it only applies to possession in such areas, not ownership; a resident of an affected area can own one but keep it either outside Crook County or in a home rule or other non-affected municipality.  Basically, it's a load of crap.  It's also not "criminal," but an ordiance violation.  They can seize the items and fine you, but cannot imprison you or charge you with a crime.  Just, basically, a load of crap; control freaks controlling whatever they can get away with controlling.

 

EDIT:  The above applies to "assault weapons" and rifle magazines.  As far as pistol mags go, the local shops all know that the county pistol mag limit is both illegal and unenforceable, so they just give the county the bird (and rightly so).

 

FOLLOW UP:  What really frosts my behind about this is that Springfield Armory, whom I only recently "forgave" for their selfish treachery and bought my first new SA pistols, is of course located in Illinois and knows full well that the Crook ban on 10+ pistol mags is preempted by the state, illegal and unenforceable.  They nevertheless refuse to ship 10+ mags to Cook County.  I tried purchasing a couple of additional 14 rounders for a 9mm XDM Elite Compact I had just registered, taking advantage of their one-time discount due to the purchase.  They screwed me out of them by refusing to ship them to Crook County, knowing full well that it is perfectly legal for them to do so.  In effect, they are giving validity to Crook County's illegal infringement on our rights where they know perfectly well the ordinance is invalid and unenforceable.  These will be the first -- and last -- two SA's I ever buy new.

[anita_g]

Thank you all!

I've gotten now that there's no limit, but probably wise to wait 5-7+ days to avoid throwing up any red flags. And that FFLs interpret the 72 hour wait differently and that's ok and their prerogative.

(I'm really just a single woman finally deciding to start down my list of firearms after recently taking my CCW renewal class, and also just given the state of the world - get things while I still can.)

[Jeffrey]

Buy now.  You're already on their "list."  

[soundguy]

On 3/14/2022 at 3:25 PM, anita_g said:

It won't let me edit -

 

I believe you get unlimited editing once you become a supporting member... it's only $25 a year. Totally worth it if you get enough information from the group, if the group becomes part of your community. IC did so much to help Illinoisans get Concealed Carry, I can't imagine we would have it without the group.

 

Anyway... Congrats on you CCL and welcome to the community!

 

Tim

[ealcala31]

1. I will give you my take on this, I am a FFL 01 Dealer in Oak Lawn. Not familiar w/Cook County laws on this question but Chicago does have a gun rationing ordinance in the books. One handgun purchase per month unless you are one of the exempted few.   2. The 72hr waiting period begins upon agreement and it can be a simple phone call but it needs to be documented or memorialized. It is known as the Hurtado decision and the IL State Police answers that question in its FAQ. Dealers who do not honor the Hurtado decision are exercising their company policy, not federal or state law.

3. A 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 14th firearm can be added to an ATF 4473 Background Check Form as long as its in the 'open phase.' Which simply means the sale was not completed on the 4473 form. How is a sale completed on the 4473 form? When the dealer signs and dated it. I have transferred more than 10 firearms on a single transaction twice, I think 🤔.

4. The only reporting that I am aware of that involve a Multiple Sales Form must be sent to ATF & ISP on the same day that it occurs. Local ordinances may require it, for example, Hodgkins, IL. When I worked at Shoot Point Blank in Hodgkins (now Range USA) b4 I got my own FFL, they had to report MSF to the village. Since Oak Lawn is a home-rule authority, I don't have to follow any Cook County reporting requirements and laws except for that damn firearm & ammo tax. Mother @#$%&*...

[thepointbeing]

Cook County Ordinance Sec. 54-183, Ord. No. 99-O-27, Pt. 1(4-3), 11-23-1999 - "One Gun per Month Limitation"

 

https://library.municode.com/il/cook_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTIGEOR_CH54LIPEMIBURE_ARTIIIDEWEDE_DIV3FITRVIPRFISA_S54-183ONGUPEMOLI

 

 

 

Cook Cty. Sec. 54-183.pdf

[ealcala31]

On 3/20/2022 at 5:32 PM, thepointbeing said:

Cook County Ordinance Sec. 54-183, Ord. No. 99-O-27, Pt. 1(4-3), 11-23-1999 - "One Gun per Month Limitation"

 

https://library.municode.com/il/cook_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTIGEOR_CH54LIPEMIBURE_ARTIIIDEWEDE_DIV3FITRVIPRFISA_S54-183ONGUPEMOLI

 

 

 

Cook Cty. Sec. 54-183.pdf 425.97 kB · 1 download

Almost mirrors the Chicago ordinance...

[Bitter Clinger]

How is that NOT unconstitutional?

[Xwing]

On 3/21/2022 at 7:56 AM, Bitter Clinger said:

How is that NOT unconstitutional?

 

Most gun laws are.  But there is only some appetite for overturning the most egregious ones.  The courts continue to be timid on enforcing the 2nd amendment, giving it a "back seat" in how closely it is followed compared to the rest of the Bill of Rights.

[thepointbeing]

On 3/20/2022 at 6:05 PM, ealcala31 said:

Almost mirrors the Chicago ordinance...

Actually, the Cook County ordinance preceded Chicago's.

[mab22]

What is to prevent someone from going to multiple gun stores and or FFL’s and purchasing 1 firearm from each that week or day?
 

[spanishjames]

On 3/23/2022 at 4:09 PM, mab22 said:

What is to prevent someone from going to multiple gun stores and or FFL’s and purchasing 1 firearm from each that week or day?
 

Nothing is preventing you from doing that, although you're still having an FBI background check done each time. I bet you get on the Fed's radar quicker doing it that way.