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The system is broken


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Where do I begin? Heck I don't know. There's a couple of things...

 

  1. I submitted a new CCL application and received my CCL card before people who are renewing. 
  2. I noticed on the ISP portal that my FOID and CCL were both renewed and marked active on different days. I questioned whether or not I would receive a new FOID and CCL separately. Others had pointed out that would be a combined FOID/CCL card.
  3. I did not receive just one card. 

 

I received my FOID WITH CONCEALED CARRY INDICATOR on 02/18. The letter attached to the card specifically says that's what the card is. The indicator field says CCL on it. Neat.

 

TODAY 02/22 I received another letter in the mail from the ISP with another card in it. It is a brand new FOID card. It does not have a CCL indicator on it. The indicator field just has a Y in that section. The letter specifically says that this card does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon. 

 

The cards are identical except for 3 things

 

  • Indicator being either Y or CCL
  • The AL number between my FOID number and the indicator
  • The red text at the bottom. One says "CAUTION: This card does not permit bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms. This does not authorize the carrying of a concealed weapon." the other says "CAUTION:  This card does not permit bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or user firearms".

 

They still use the picture from your driver's license I can tell because it's the same horrible picture I took last year when I got my motorcycle endorsement. 

 

So...

 

Was this an error?

Did they mean to send me one card or two? 

Did the people who received a card with the Y indicator while waiting for their new CCL simply get a new FOID and their CCL is still lost in transit somewhere?

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On 2/22/2022 at 4:09 PM, Stats said:

Maybe you received your corrected card before the original "bad" card? 

 

 

The card with the CCL indicator was postmarked the 15th of February. The card with the Y indicator was postmarked the 18th of February so unless they printed them and mailed them out of order, I don't think so. Additionally the letters attached are different. I folded back the top part of the letter because it has my name and address on it but the letterhead is actually different as well. One does say "State of ILLINOIS Firearm Owner's Identification Card" and the other says "State of ILLINOIS CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE". 

 

IMG_1095.jpg

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On 2/22/2022 at 4:43 PM, solareclipse2 said:

One does say "State of ILLINOIS Firearm Owner's Identification Card" and the other says "State of ILLINOIS CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE". 

 

Wow-It looks like there might be yet another issue with the system. One other item that you might to review. If both cards have an AL#, you might want to look at the AL#s. Reason being, the last 8 digits of the AL# is the date that the license was issued (Approved). Sorry, I do not know of any other logic imbedded in the AL#. Due to some system changes, the issued date will show up as the "Printed" date online in your account. The actual print date maybe stored elsewhere in the system and would not be available to a "regular" user of the system. After the cards are issued, they are then printed, attached to the letters, stuffed in envelopes for mailing.  It could be possible that the card that was issued later was actually mailed earlier. At this point, I would be tapped out of information. Good luck in your quest, and please keep us posted as the the ultimate outcome.

 

On a completely sarcastic note, it looks like this issue was probably caused from the changes in the FOID/ CCL laws. From a news article (Canton Daily Ledger, 1/6/2022):

 

“The Illinois State Police Firearms Services Bureau is working diligently to ensure the statutory changes to the FOID Act will benefit the people of Illinois,” said ISP Director Brendan F. Kelly

 

So maybe one day we may actually benefit from the changes. Good luck my friend.

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On 2/22/2022 at 5:57 PM, Stats said:

 

Wow-It looks like there might be yet another issue with the system. One other item that you might to review. If both cards have an AL#, you might want to look at the AL#s. Reason being, the last 8 digits of the AL# is the date that the license was issued (Approved). Sorry, I do not know of any other logic imbedded in the AL#. Due to some system changes, the issued date will show up as the "Printed" date online in your account. The actual print date maybe stored elsewhere in the system and would not be available to a "regular" user of the system. After the cards are issued, they are then printed, attached to the letters, stuffed in envelopes for mailing.  It could be possible that the card that was issued later was actually mailed earlier. At this point, I would be tapped out of information. Good luck in your quest, and please keep us posted as the the ultimate outcome.

 

On a completely sarcastic note, it looks like this issue was probably caused from the changes in the FOID/ CCL laws. From a news article (Canton Daily Ledger, 1/6/2022):

 

“The Illinois State Police Firearms Services Bureau is working diligently to ensure the statutory changes to the FOID Act will benefit the people of Illinois,” said ISP Director Brendan F. Kelly

 

So maybe one day we may actually benefit from the changes. Good luck my friend.

 

Just for the sake of completeness here are the redacted cards and the screen shots from the ISP portal. You can see that the FOID and CCL went active on different days and you can see that the backs are entirely different where the fronts are mostly the same. The important part is that they are actually different. 

FOID CCL Compairson - ISP Porta.png

FOID CCL Comparison - Front.png

FOID CCL Comparison - Back.jpg

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Wow

Many of us, and by many I mean thousands, would be happy to receive a card from the ISP. 

And to get two cards, I mean wow, two cards. Here’s my short take. Every creature @ the ISP has come down with the Covid AND a mild case of the dumb $][|+§. If all of this wasn’t so sad and pitiful it would be considered a Hollywood Drama potential.

And all this incompetence while raking in tens of millions of residents hard earned cash. It’s like legalized stealing from the state.

 

/rant off 

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On 2/23/2022 at 9:27 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Solar, weren't you one that said previously your card showed printed on 1/18/22?  That's when it shows mine was printed.  But I've not gotten anything from them yet.  On hold at the moment waiting for an agent, first time I've had the option to even get this far. 

 

This is what I said

 

Quote

Submitted without prints: 10/15/2021

Under Review: 01/27/2022- 10:16 AM

Card Sent for printing: 01/27/2022- 11:07 AM

Card Printed: 01/31/2022

 

 

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Ok, I knew there were a couple of us in the 1/18/22 batch that never got them.  Wonder if something happened to that batch.  Been on hold for over an hour.  Just got it on speaker in the background until I reach someone.  Yours had a quick turn around.  I submitted my application on 9/21/21, maybe it was the 22nd.  Either way, showed approved and printed on 1/18/22, still waiting.  Today is the first day I’ve had real hope of getting to talk to an agent.

Edited by illinois_buckeye
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On 2/23/2022 at 9:15 AM, Bubbacs said:

Wow

Many of us, and by many I mean thousands, would be happy to receive a card from the ISP. 

And to get two cards, I mean wow, two cards. Here’s my short take. Every creature @ the ISP has come down with the Covid AND a mild case of the dumb $][|+§. If all of this wasn’t so sad and pitiful it would be considered a Hollywood Drama potential.

And all this incompetence while raking in tens of millions of residents hard earned cash. It’s like legalized stealing from the state.

 

/rant off 

 

Yeah...when I took the class the instructor had told us that the state was processing new requests pretty fast (i.e in 90/120 days) and he thought we'd all have our cards within the statutory timeframes. He wasn't far off. I feel for people who have submitted renewals and are still waiting though aren't those cards still active since the renewal was submitted before the card expired? I know that's a terrible excuse. 

 

As far as legalized stealing, isn't that what IL is known for? Our government never met a dollar they hadn't already spent yet or a tax that they didn't like. Or for that matter, a bad idea they didn't think was good?

 

On 2/23/2022 at 10:16 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Ok, I knew there were a couple of us in the 1/18/22 batch that never got them.  Wonder if something happened to that batch.  Been on hold for over an hour.  Just got it on speaker in the background until I reach someone.  Yours had a quick turn around.  I submitted my application on 9/21/21, maybe it was the 22nd.  Either way, showed approved and printed on 1/18/22, still waiting.  Toast is the first day I’ve had real hope of getting to talk to an agent.

 

Curious if you get to talk to a person today after all that time on hold and what they have to say. Given what I've read from other comments, probably not much since it's only been 36 days and they seem to want to make you wait a full 45 days which seems arbitrary to me. 

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Just in case anyone else is in the batch from 1/18/22 where your card shows printed, after about 1 1/2 hours on hold, I got to speak to an agent.  He told me that I was the 3rd person he'd helped with the same issue, and that the CCL printers were aware of it.  He stated for some reason in that batch they appear to have appeared as issued, but were never actually printed.  So it sounds like they were going to have to go back and print that batch.  He said I should receive my card within 10-15 days.  I'll post this in the wait time thread as well.  

 

Edit:  You actually posted as I was typing.  

Edited by illinois_buckeye
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The system was by most honest accounts, broken prior to Obama's sales position for two terms and then later the riots and the pandemic.

The fact that there is really no end of the tunnel in sight or that someone can even say it will be as functional as 15 years ago should be enough said.

But, while it is taxpayer dollars, they aren't funding welfare, section 8, illegals or pregnant moms, so it is allowed to continue as is.

Otherwise, the rioting, burning, looting and pillaging would only have subsided due to the lack of new targets of opportunity.

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On 2/23/2022 at 10:44 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Just in case anyone else is in the batch from 1/18/22 where your card shows printed, after about 1 1/2 hours on hold, I got to speak to an agent.  He told me that I was the 3rd person he'd helped with the same issue, and that the CCL printers were aware of it.  He stated for some reason in that batch they appear to have appeared as issued, but were never actually printed.  So it sounds like they were going to have to go back and print that batch.  He said I should receive my card within 10-15 days.  I'll post this in the wait time thread as well.  

 

Edit:  You actually posted as I was typing.  

 

Dang. It sounds like they were wholly unaware that an entire batch of cards did not actually get printed. That's horrible and unless they're going to go back and re-issue cards for that given time period, how do they plan to identify people in that group? Wait for them to call and complain? Not everybody has 90 minutes to sit on hold. That's a travesty BUT I'm glad to know that you got to the bottom of your particular situation.

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I'm not sure, but when I called in, even though I gave them the actual CCL number, they had the application number and just had to verify my information.  When he saw the application number, he could see it was in that batch of cards.  So I don't know if they are just going to reprint that entire batch or what.  Thankfully I have an office job, so I was able to have it on hold on speaker phone at low volume in the background as I worked, when I heard it ring I picked up.  It's not the fault of the agents.  I know a guy at Church who works for ISP, not that department though, but he said they are pretty understaffed. 

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I sent in my renewal on 07/24/2020 and the state gladly took my application fee. Now 19 months later (02/24/2022) it still shows under review. I can't get any phone calls answered, they are ignoring emails, and Molly B has talked with them. Would I be better off to sue the state?

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I guess it depends on your definition of broken. They gave a FOID to a guy who had been in prison that ended up committing a mass shooting in Aurora then used that as a reason to further restrict the people's right to self-defense. Seems like it is working pretty well from an anti perspective. Just stop being a reasonable, thoughtful person and it will all make sense.

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On 2/24/2022 at 12:42 PM, Wideglide11 said:

I sent in my renewal on 07/24/2020 and the state gladly took my application fee. Now 19 months later (02/24/2022) it still shows under review. I can't get any phone calls answered, they are ignoring emails, and Molly B has talked with them. Would I be better off to sue the state?

 

I'd like to see you try. Not sure how far you'll get or how it's gonna shake out but if you got the money...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

This gets even better. I got yet a third card in the mail today, another CCL. So for those keeping score that's two CCL cards and a FOID card in less time than it's taken some folks to get a FOID or renew a CCL.

 

I may just carry them all for kicks and giggles and if a cop asks, I'll pull them all out and tell him to pick a card because I have no clue which one is which. 

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Received my Illinois Concealed Carry License in the mail today with the CCL Indicator. However at the bottom of the card it states; CAUTION; This card does not permit the bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms. What does that even mean. Will I receive another card with the wording corrected. Stating that I can legally conceal carry? Any ideas or answers?

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On 3/10/2022 at 1:35 PM, Blove said:

Received my Illinois Concealed Carry License in the mail today with the CCL Indicator. However at the bottom of the card it states; CAUTION; This card does not permit the bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms. What does that even mean. Will I receive another card with the wording corrected. Stating that I can legally conceal carry? Any ideas or answers?

 

As long as it stops there you are golden. If it has another sentence that says you cannot carry concealed weapons then there was another printing error.

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