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covid emergency/FOID active status


lilguy
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5 hours ago, lilguy said:

So there could be 100s of thousands of invalid FOIDs by the time this is over?

 

If the state of emergency ends only after five years, everyone who has a CCL files for renewal, and the ISP doesn't process any of them, all of them will expire "for real" 18 months later. Ditto if it lasts 10 years with FOIDs, although it could get interesting with simultaneous, automatic renewals from HB 562.

 

At this point, Illinois should be able to figure out how to go back to work normally. I'm not sure the continuing emergency declaration has much real effect except to keep JB as emperor. It's just as unconstitutional now as it was 31 days into the emergency, but if our elected legislature doesn't care, we mice have no hope.

 

Meanwhile, as long as the ISP keeps accepting renewal applications, we might as well file them. Even without the emergency, a renewal on file keeps FOIDs and CCLs valid, unless the renewal is denied.

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Extending the deadlines simply means the FOID itself is worthless. Eventually, no one will comply with it except when obviously necessary. Every time government, or organizations, make things increasingly difficult, the more people stop complying. It looks as if the FOID card as well as the rest of state government might all grind to a halt some day. 

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The last executive order extending the state of emergency was issued July 23, expiring August 22 (tomorrow, Sunday). I suspect there will be another order issued Monday. It's not like anything has changed since July 23.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 9:23 PM, lilguy said:

Son finally got his renewal today, 1 week into his 18th month.

 

What is the issuance and expiration dates? Did the ISP back-date everything to when he applied for renewal? We mice are curious about what could be up for us soon.

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On 8/21/2021 at 11:00 PM, Euler said:

The last executive order extending the state of emergency was issued July 23, expiring August 22 (tomorrow, Sunday). I suspect there will be another order issued Monday. It's not like anything has changed since July 23.

...

 

JB re-issued the executive order Friday. It just wasn't available to the masses until today.

 

IL executive order 2021-19

 

This one expires Sunday, September 19.

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On 8/23/2021 at 11:50 PM, mab22 said:

1. I don’t see anything about the FOID in the new exec order.

...

 

There isn't anything about FOIDs in any of the executive orders. The relevant executive orders only declare a state of emergency in Illinois, which includes giving the executive branch the power to adopt regulatory rules without the need for their oversight or approval by the legislature.

 

One such rule was originally that FOIDs and CCLs don't expire for the duration of the emergency plus 12 months. Press release dated 10 April 2020 The rule was actually effective 6 April.

 

That rule was later amended, effective 3 September 2020, to extend the period of non-expiration to the length of the emergency plus 18 months. (I don't have link to a press release or an Illinois Register document for that one, but it's on the ISP website as I write this.)

 

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On 8/24/2021 at 2:41 AM, Euler said:

... I don't have link to a press release or an Illinois Register document...

 

Page 205 of Volume 44, Issue 16, 2020, begins the original FOID rule. The CCL rule follows.

 

Page 1003 of Volume 44, Issue 38, 2020, begins the amended FOID rule. The CCL rule follows.

 

Edited by Euler
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On 8/24/2021 at 10:39 AM, Tip said:

At least for ammo this is a moot point. My experience is that FOID isn’t required for purchase outside of Illinois…. Never ever been asked for it.

 

Every ammo purchase I've made online ever has asked me for an image of my FOID to verify I have one. Whether they actually look at it to check the expiration date (or anything else), I don't know.

 

Edited by Euler
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On 8/24/2021 at 10:33 AM, Euler said:

 

 

Every ammo purchase I've made online ever has asked me for an image of my FOID to verify I have one. Whether they actually look at it to check the expiration date (or anything else), I don't know.

 

Technicality but online purchases are purchases inside of Illinois - they are purchases technically made from your place of residence…. But you are correct - online purchases all require FOID. 
Physically cross State lines and buy ammo and they don’t care about your FOID.

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On 8/24/2021 at 10:45 AM, Tip said:

Technicality but online purchases are purchases inside of Illinois - they are purchases technically made from your place of residence…. But you are correct - online purchases all require FOID. 
Physically cross State lines and buy ammo and they don’t care about your FOID.

Since we are getting technical, once your purchase crosses state lines, it's part of interstate commerce. That gives it federal jurisdiction not state. The ATF requires that any licensed seller has to make sure you are not violating any local, county, or state laws. That falls into a heavily GREY area, some sellers will go buy firearms and ammo only which is federally regulated while other sellers will go by state laws, or county laws, or municipal laws. It all depends on the seller's company policy but by the bare minimum, they must follow firearm and ammo laws. For example, AR15s are banned in Chicago and Cook County, that's why many sellers won't ship. Me on the other hand, I am fully aware of home-rule authority and CCL covering AR pistols so I will ship into Chicago and Cook County. Also, interstate commerce supersedes home-rule tax laws that's why I don't have to charge Joe Smith in Idaho the $25 Cook County Tax even though he bought it on my website that is licensed in Cook County. It's all f'ed up...

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On 8/24/2021 at 2:22 AM, Euler said:

 

Page 205 of Volume 44, Issue 16, 2020, begins the original FOID rule. The CCL rule follows.

 

Page 1003 of Volume 44, Issue 38, 2020, begins the amended FOID rule. The CCL rule follows.

 

 

Thanks for posting those links!


Has anyone read these?
I guess ISRA is neutral on these as well?

 

The disaster procs are only good for 30 days, thats the reason he keeps reissueing them,and they state they are valid for 150 days after the effective date?

So why are these new FOID rules 12 months and 18 months (March of 2022) out and not 30 or 150 day extensions?

 

In April of 2020 they isssued it for 12 months, till April 2021. They say nothing about new issuances,
or even a suspension of the FOID program.

 

Then in September of 2020 they issue another extension for 18 months, extending it all the way to March 2022. Again,
no mention of new issue or suspension of the program.

 

It appears they changed the language in the second one.
April -
For the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster Proclamation related to COVID-19 and for a period of 12 months following its termination by the Governor,

September -
For the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster Proclamations related to COVID-19 and for a period of 18 months following

 

Why the change in the wording, so we will be stuck with this till after March 2022, even if the pandemic is over?

 

According to state law.
430 ILCS 65/5) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-5)
(b) Renewal applications shall be approved or denied within 60 business days,
provided the applicant submitted his or her renewal application prior to the expiration
of his or her Firearm Owner's Identification Card.

 

So the executive Branch via fiat, is ignoring the law with regards to the amount of time they have to issue a renewal, and a new issue FOID.

 

Has the executive branch bypassed congress and given them selves an extension of 1 1/2 years via a disaster proclamation, that they have to re-issue every 30 days, for every FOID card that
expires from now till March 2022?

 

No vote in congress, or even a law passed changing the law as it is written.

 

I have no doubt that an expired FOID from an Illinois resident prevents you from online and out of state firearm purchases,
as well as those Illinois businesses that don't want to deal with expired FOID's.

 

Here is the text of the orders.

==================================================================================

April 2020
ILLINOIS REGISTER 6169
20
ILLINOIS STATE POLICE

NOTICE OF EMERGENCY AMENDMENT
A FOID Card shall expire 10 years from the date of issuance. The first day of the month in
which the related FOID Card Application was received is designated as the date of issuance for
purposes of this Part. For the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster Proclamation related to
COVID-19 and for a period of 12 months following its termination by the Governor, any FOID
Card that has expired or will expire shall remain valid provided that the submitted renewal
application is completed accurately and in its entirety pursuant to the provisions of Section 4 of
the Act and the applicant's FOID card is not subject to revocation pursuant to the provisions of
Section 8 of the Act. Any FOID card renewed during the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster
Proclamation shall expire 10 years from the date of issuance. (Source: Amended by emergency rulemaking at 44 Ill. Reg. 6166, effective April 6,
2020, for a maximum of 150 days)


=================================================================================================
September 2021

NOTICE OF EMERGENCY AMENDMENT

EMERGENCY
A FOID Card shall expire 10 years from the date of issuance. The first day of the month in
which the related FOID Card Application was received is designated as the date of issuance for
purposes of this Part. For the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster Proclamations related to
COVID-19 and for a period of 18 months following, any FOID Card that has expired or will
expire shall remain valid provided that the submitted renewal application is completed accurately
and in its entirety pursuant to the provisions of Section 4 of the Act and the applicant's FOID
card is not subject to revocation pursuant to the provisions of Section 8 of the Act. Any FOID
card renewed during the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster Proclamations shall expire 10
years from the date of issuance. (Source: Amended by emergency rulemaking at 44 Ill. Reg. 15819, effective September
3, 2020, for a maximum of 150 days)

 

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On 8/24/2021 at 2:44 PM, mab22 said:

...

The disaster procs are only good for 30 days, thats the reason he keeps reissueing them,and they state they are valid for 150 days after the effective date?

So why are these new FOID rules 12 months and 18 months (March of 2022) out and not 30 or 150 day extensions?

 

In April of 2020 they isssued it for 12 months, till April 2021. They say nothing about new issuances,
or even a suspension of the FOID program.

 

Then in September of 2020 they issue another extension for 18 months, extending it all the way to March 2022. Again,
no mention of new issue or suspension of the program.

 

It appears they changed the language in the second one.
April -
For the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster Proclamation related to COVID-19 and for a period of 12 months following its termination by the Governor,

September -
For the duration of the Gubernatorial Disaster Proclamations related to COVID-19 and for a period of 18 months following

 

Why the change in the wording, so we will be stuck with this till after March 2022, even if the pandemic is over?

 

According to state law.
...

So the executive Branch via fiat, is ignoring the law with regards to the amount of time they have to issue a renewal, and a new issue FOID.

...

 

An emergency declaration gives the executive branch emergency power for 30 days. Part of that power is the ability to make rules without legislative oversight and approval. That's what allows the executive branch to ignore the law. JB keeps re-declaring an emergency every 28 days, so the executive branch's emergency power never ends. As I've posted before, it's unconstitutional to keep doing that, but the legislature appears not to care, so here we are.

 

The initial 12-month and later 18-month periods incorporated into the emergency rules do not begin until the emergency ends. The language changed in September 2020 because the ISP decided to increase the 12-month extension to an 18-month extension. Since the 12-month extension had not started yet, there's no conflict. No extension ends in March 2022, because no extension has yet started.

 

The extension is not, and never has been, an addition of 12 or 18 months to the expiration of individual FOIDs and CCLs. The extension is an addition to the period that the ISP's emergency rules are in effect, at least for FOIDs and CCLs. Most state agencies are operating under emergency rules that end when the emergency ends. The ISP has decided it will continue to operate under emergency rules for 18 months after the emergency ends.

 

The ISP's emergency rules for FOIDs and CCLs state that FOIDs and CCLs remain valid if their individual, as-printed expiration occurs during the state of emergency.

 

So let's say, for example, you have a FOID that expired, as printed, on 7 April 2020. Let's also say, for example, that the state of emergency ends 1 June 2022. Your FOID now expires on 1 December 2023 (i.e., 18 months after the emergency ended), even though 7 April 2020 is printed on the card. In fact, all FOIDs and CCLs that have printed expiration dates between 6 April 2020 and 1 December 2023 now simultaneously expire on 1 December 2023.

 

There's a gotcha in the rule, which is that the cards with printed expiration dates in the period of the emergency (and extension) are only still valid if the card-holder applied for renewal. However, example-you (i.e., not actual-you) could theoretically apply for renewal on 31 November 2023 to un-expire your FOID retroactively. I don't recommend that, but if you kept your head down between April 2020 and November 2023, you could probably get away with it (unless the ISP changes the rules again).

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On 8/24/2021 at 3:09 PM, Euler said:

The initial 12-month and later 18-month periods incorporated into the emergency rules do not begin until the emergency ends. The language changed in September 2020 because the ISP decided to increase the 12-month extension to an 18-month extension. Since the 12-month extension had not started yet, there's no conflict. No extension ends in March 2022, because no extension has yet started.

 

I thought I had misinterpreted it , but that is how I initially read it.

So after the disaster is over, they get to keep doing the same thing for 18 months.

 

Hello ISRA?! ISRA, you there?

 

 

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