ISP Updated PICA Q&A

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 7:50 AM, soundguy said:

 

Nope.

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you live in a free county? Your house won't be searched? You don't read the news out of the collar counties? You just feel like arguing with people? 

 

Help me out here. 

[Odinson]

I'm assuming all this hardware was confiscated. I hope these guys had a chance to complete all of their endorsements prior to their arrest.

 

Naperville police charge 3 men after loaded machine guns, variety of drugs found inside car parked at Bowlero (msn.com)

[Jeffrey]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:24 AM, Odinson said:

I'm assuming all this hardware was confiscated. I hope these guys had a chance to complete all of their endorsements prior to their arrest.

 

Naperville police charge 3 men after loaded machine guns, variety of drugs found inside car parked at Bowlero (msn.com)

As a product of Naperville I really want to stick up for it here, not directing anything at you Odinson.  The PD has done a great job lately finding these criminals.  Top Golf has had multiple arrests multiple weekends in a row related to felons in possession of guns and drugs.  I was a league bowler at Gala for years.  I remember at one point on the weekends they finally started hiring security.  Down town Naper not much different over the last couple years.  The city is changing severely from when I graduated in '97 and not for the better.  I'm glad we still have a judge with some balls willing to actually hold them accountable.

[soundguy]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:20 AM, davel501 said:

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you live in a free county? Your house won't be searched? You don't read the news out of the collar counties? You just feel like arguing with people? 

 

Help me out here. 

 

I'm saying there will not be SWAT teams at our front doors for failing to comply. There will not be teams going door to door looking for suspected "should have been registered" weapons and parts.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[Odinson]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:39 AM, Jeffrey said:

As a product of Naperville I really want to stick up for it here, not directing anything at you Odinson.  The PD has done a great job lately finding these criminals.  Top Golf has had multiple arrests multiple weekends in a row related to felons in possession of guns and drugs.  I was a league bowler at Gala for years.  I remember at one point on the weekends they finally started hiring security.  Down town Naper not much different over the last couple years.  The city is changing severely from when I graduated in '97 and not for the better.  I'm glad we still have a judge with some balls willing to actually hold them accountable.

Right on Jeffrey. This is a great example of pro-active policing. Either something terrible was about to go down or the perpetrators just roll around super heavy waiting for something to happen - both scenarios have no place in society.

[mauserme]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:20 AM, davel501 said:

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you live in a free county? Your house won't be searched? You don't read the news out of the collar counties? You just feel like arguing with people? 

 

Help me out here. 

 

I think he's saying we're not anticipating any swat teams.  I'd have to agree with that.

 

I did remove a post that sort of expressed the same sentiment a little too emphatically.

 

 

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 10:56 AM, mauserme said:

 

I think he's saying we're not anticipating any swat teams.  I'd have to agree with that.

 

I did remove a post that sort of expressed the same sentiment a little too emphatically.

 

 

 

The sentiment behind that over enthusiastic post is exactly why they will have swat teams serving those search warrants. For most of the state this is a non-issue but if you live in Cook, Lake and a couple of other counties this is reality. The only question is how low will the bar be to get those search warrants.

[mauserme]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:07 AM, davel501 said:

 

The sentiment behind that over enthusiastic post is exactly why they will have swat teams serving those search warrants. For most of the state this is a non-issue but if you live in Cook, Lake and a couple of other counties this is reality. The only question is how low will the bar be to get those search warrants.

 

Again, those things are not part of our expectations.

 

 

[yurimodin]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:07 AM, davel501 said:

 

The sentiment behind that over enthusiastic post is exactly why they will have swat teams serving those search warrants. For most of the state this is a non-issue but if you live in Cook, Lake and a couple of other counties this is reality. The only question is how low will the bar be to get those search warrants.

 

boy we sure have fallen a long way from

Quote

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

 

[G214me]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:07 AM, davel501 said:

 

The sentiment behind that over enthusiastic post is exactly why they will have swat teams serving those search warrants. For most of the state this is a non-issue but if you live in Cook, Lake and a couple of other counties this is reality. The only question is how low will the bar be to get those search warrants.

You're talking about tens of thousands of search warrants. they'll need to show probable cause that the person still has the items and they are still on the property. It's highly unlikely that they will execute kick the door down and shoot the dog warrants on people with no criminal record. 

[soundguy]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:07 AM, davel501 said:

 

The sentiment behind that over enthusiastic post is exactly why they will have swat teams serving those search warrants. For most of the state this is a non-issue but if you live in Cook, Lake and a couple of other counties this is reality. The only question is how low will the bar be to get those search warrants.

Historically in the most difficult times when Chicago banned new handguns, scary rifles, and was regarded as nearly the most restrictive jurisdiction in the country, the authorities never made searching for arms a priority. In a number of instances, accidental and otherwise justified shootings with handguns were handled far better than they would have been in most places. 
 

I suppose times have changed, for the better in many respects for gun owners. Especially in Chicago. The authorities do not have the resources or desire to “go after” gun owners… unless additional stupid criminal stuff is also involved. Non compliance alone is not likely to qualify as such. 
 

Cheers,

Tim

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:29 AM, G214me said:

You're talking about tens of thousands of search warrants. they'll need to show probable cause that the person still has the items and they are still on the property. It's highly unlikely that they will execute kick the door down and shoot the dog warrants on people with no criminal record. 

 

Not talking about generalized searches, I'm talking about the wrong person or a self-righteous friend/neighbor/family member finds out and reports you. The fact that everyone else is getting away with it will be little comfort to the few that have their lives turned upside down by this. I'm fairly certain that a few people will suffer disproportionately from this law and when it is all over the Dems, the cops, the rights organizations will all just walk away and let them pick up the pieces on their own.

[mauserme]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:42 AM, davel501 said:

 

Not talking about generalized searches, I'm talking about the wrong person or a self-righteous friend/neighbor/family member finds out and reports you. The fact that everyone else is getting away with it will be little comfort to the few that have their lives turned upside down by this. I'm fairly certain that a few people will suffer disproportionately from this law and when it is all over the Dems, the cops, the rights organizations will all just walk away and let them pick up the pieces on their own.

 

If there's a SWAT team at their door, they will have done something far beyond what this thread is about.

 

 

[G214me]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:42 AM, davel501 said:

 

Not talking about generalized searches, I'm talking about the wrong person or a self-righteous friend/neighbor/family member finds out and reports you. The fact that everyone else is getting away with it will be little comfort to the few that have their lives turned upside down by this. I'm fairly certain that a few people will suffer disproportionately from this law and when it is all over the Dems, the cops, the rights organizations will all just walk away and let them pick up the pieces on their own.

This is why you sanitize everything. get every item and every item you're not sure about out of state. rent a storage unit or sell to an FFL out of state. Better yet get yourself out of state ( I'm trying right now ) and join the many who say how wonderful it is. Let everyone in your life that may be a rat know how squeaky clean you are and that you are in no way violating any law. Then sit back and get ready for the raid that will never come. Hopefully the courts slap this all down soon. Keep in mind moving stuff out of state is 100% legal. 

Edited December 6, 2023 at 06:03 PM by G214me
addition

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:56 AM, mauserme said:

 

If there's a SWAT team at their door, they will have done something far beyond what this thread is about.

 

 

 

It's a weapons warrant so high risk by default. Heck, it's a felony warrant if are alleged to have an AR and a lock washer. One would hope they would be a good enough group to do a surround and call out. It's not like you can flush an AR so there's no evidence to rescue. 

[mauserme]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:15 PM, davel501 said:

 

It's a weapons warrant so high risk by default. Heck, it's a felony warrant if are alleged to have an AR and a lock washer. One would hope they would be a good enough group to do a surround and call out. It's not like you can flush an AR so there's no evidence to rescue. 

 

Can you point to any evidence of this happening in Chicago, Cook County, Highland Park under their current bans?

 

 

 

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:25 PM, mauserme said:

 

Can you point to any evidence of this happening in Chicago, Cook County, Highland Park under their current bans?

 

 

 

 

How do you produce historical evidence for a state law that didn't exist? Is there a provision that let's lesser units of government draft ordinances that carry time in state prison? 

 

There have been ridiculous cases over the years, like the firefighter from the north side turned in by his daughter for having an assault weapon, but those were all local ordinance violations. This is big boy crime now. 

[mauserme]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:46 PM, davel501 said:

 

How do you produce historical evidence for a state law that didn't exist? Is there a provision that let's lesser units of government draft ordinances that carry time in state prison? 

 

There have been ridiculous cases over the years, like the firefighter from the north side turned in by his daughter for having an assault weapon, but those were all local ordinance violations. This is big boy crime now. 

 

Since ISP has already stated publicly that they have no enforcement mechanism I naturally assumed you thought others, possibly counties or municipalities that have never chosen enforcement in the past, might now take some kind of action.  You did draw the distinction between what you referred to as "free counties" versus other areas of the state  a few posts up.

 

So to make sure I understand your point, you believe agencies that have ignored their own law, in many cases for decades, will now enforce a state law when ISP itself is taking a pass?

 

 

[G214me]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:46 PM, davel501 said:

 

How do you produce historical evidence for a state law that didn't exist? Is there a provision that let's lesser units of government draft ordinances that carry time in state prison? 

 

There have been ridiculous cases over the years, like the firefighter from the north side turned in by his daughter for having an assault weapon, but those were all local ordinance violations. This is big boy crime now. 

If you're really that worried about violent raids that ruin lives and somehow can't make sure you have nothing to get caught with, or maybe have someone who will rat you out to the cops  maybe it's time to move out of Illinois. The stress isn't worth staying.

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

Do we need to link the video of the warrant search on the house in California?  That wasn't swat, but they got a warrant because the person registered and complied with the law. 

 

This state has passed california on stupid.  I fully expect search warrants in the Karen counties of Lake and Cook for people who registered and people who didn't. The people who register admit they have a banned weapon and that will be enough for a warrant to search for other contraband. Lets remember that IL is refusing to abide by the TROs and claiming all the banned firearms and accessories purchased during those windows are illegal on jan 1st. 

 

 

[cnwfan3]

On 12/6/2023 at 1:07 PM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

Do we need to link the video of the warrant search on the house in California?  That wasn't swat, but they got a warrant because the person registered and complied with the law. 

 

This state has passed california on stupid.  I fully expect search warrants in the Karen counties of Lake and Cook for people who registered and people who didn't. The people who register admit they have a banned weapon and that will be enough for a warrant to search for other contraband. Lets remember that IL is refusing to abide by the TROs and claiming all the banned firearms and accessories purchased during those windows are illegal on jan 1st. 

 

 

 

So called "Assault Weapons" have been illegal in Cook county for a while (I believe the Blair Holt AWB took effect in 2006 in Cook county).  I have not heard of one instance of anyone in Cook County being raided and/or swatted because of suspicion of having an AW.  I don't think much is going to change in Cook county from what was happening before. 

 

The fact that you are worried about it is exactly what they want.  They want to scare people into compliance.  If you are that concerned, sell it, register it, or get it out of the state until this all blows over.

Edited December 6, 2023 at 08:01 PM by cnwfan3

[soundguy]

I lived through the Handgun and AWB of Chicago while promoting and working for concealed carry. I sometimes utilized "fanny pack" carry within Chicago, Cook County and other parts of our fair state. It should be obvious to you all that I kept handguns that could not be registered  in the City during these bans.

 

Each person should take stock of what they have, what they might be required to register, the potential penalties for failing to comply and plan accordingly. Read up on the law. Take note of what Mauserme says and what the authorities have said and continue to say. Pay less attention to the doom and gloom from those who may not know what they are talking about - It is pure paranoia which should not be spread to others.

 

I don't see much value in promoting "they're gonna come after us".

 

 

Cheers,

Tim

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:56 PM, mauserme said:

 

Since ISP has already stated publicly that they have no enforcement mechanism I naturally assumed you thought others, possibly counties or municipalities that have never chosen enforcement in the past, might now take some kind of action.  You did draw the distinction between what you referred to as "free counties" versus other areas of the state  a few posts up.

 

So to make sure I understand your point, you believe agencies that have ignored their own law, in many cases for decades, will now enforce a state law when ISP itself is taking a pass?

 

 

 

You are conflating laws with local ordinances. Felony arrests help their stats, making them look good and get more budget. Local ordinance violations - what are basically tickets don't really move the needle in budget conversations. Cook county is the only county I am aware of that had a county-wide ban in place. There I am torn because on the one hand they don't do much law enforcement but on the other hand there are a ton of people that have been "Darted" when it comes to FOID/CCL reviews so who knows. The real wildcards are going to be the blue counties surrounding Chicago with democrat sheriffs. Outside of the collar counties I would agree that you'd have to do something and PICA would be add-on charges. 

[mauserme]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:27 PM, davel501 said:

 

You are conflating laws with local ordinances. Felony arrests help their stats, making them look good and get more budget. Local ordinance violations - what are basically tickets don't really move the needle in budget conversations. Cook county is the only county I am aware of that had a county-wide ban in place. There I am torn because on the one hand they don't do much law enforcement but on the other hand there are a ton of people that have been "Darted" when it comes to FOID/CCL reviews so who knows. The real wildcards are going to be the blue counties surrounding Chicago with democrat sheriffs. Outside of the collar counties I would agree that you'd have to do something and PICA would be add-on charges. 

 

Is that how budgets work?  The more people they arrest the more money they get?

 

If that were the case this entire state would be in a lot worse shape than it is, and not just for gun owners.

 

 

[John Q Public]

87000?

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:55 PM, mauserme said:

 

Is that how budgets work?  The more people they arrest the more money they get?

 

If that were the case this entire state would be in a lot worse shape than it is, and not just for gun owners.

 

 

 

That which gets measured gets rewarded. That which gets rewarded matters. It's the only reason they bring up crime stats - they want more money. It's the same reason the entire government spends like crazy at the end of their budget year - you get less budget next year if you didn't use it all last year. It's also why you can't drive across the border into Wisconsin and not see police lined up on the highway. The primary drivers in government are how many people you have under you and how big of a budget you manage. The way you get bigger budgets and more people is better stats.

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:12 PM, soundguy said:

I lived through the Handgun and AWB of Chicago while promoting and working for concealed carry. I sometimes utilized "fanny pack" carry within Chicago, Cook County and other parts of our fair state. It should be obvious to you all that I kept handguns that could not be registered  in the City during these bans.

 

Each person should take stock of what they have, what they might be required to register, the potential penalties for failing to comply and plan accordingly. Read up on the law. Take note of what Mauserme says and what the authorities have said and continue to say. Pay less attention to the doom and gloom from those who may not know what they are talking about - It is pure paranoia which should not be spread to others.

 

I don't see much value in promoting "they're gonna come after us".

 

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

On 12/6/2023 at 11:42 AM, davel501 said:

 

Not talking about generalized searches, I'm talking about the wrong person or a self-righteous friend/neighbor/family member finds out and reports you. The fact that everyone else is getting away with it will be little comfort to the few that have their lives turned upside down by this. I'm fairly certain that a few people will suffer disproportionately from this law and when it is all over the Dems, the cops, the rights organizations will all just walk away and let them pick up the pieces on their own.

 

[G214me]

To get back on topic and NOT get arrested even if we do get hit with a felony raid we first need to realize the ISP Q&A PICA stuff is vague garbage that is mostly useless or raises more questions than it answers. Therefore lets all make sure our goodies ( I have none ) are out of state and also any goodies that are a maybe are out of state. at least until the courts fix this. Then we can all raise both middle fingers in the air and tell JB Pigster and his Gestapo they're cordially invited to suck our ****. 

[mauserme]

On 12/6/2023 at 3:32 PM, davel501 said:

 

That which gets measured gets rewarded. That which gets rewarded matters. It's the only reason they bring up crime stats - they want more money. It's the same reason the entire government spends like crazy at the end of their budget year - you get less budget next year if you didn't use it all last year. It's also why you can't drive across the border into Wisconsin and not see police lined up on the highway. The primary drivers in government are how many people you have under you and how big of a budget you manage. The way you get bigger budgets and more people is better stats.

 

Those police lined up at the Wisconsin border are there to issue those same tickets that, 3 posts prior, you said "don't really move the needle in budget conversations".  And I agree, they don't even though they do generate some income.

 

There is a lot of disappointment in the anti-gun world about the way this is going.  They're in a position where spreading fear and doubt is their strongest weapon.  You can be a part of that if you like, but we'll continue to provide the best information we can, absent the hyperbole, so folks can figure things out for themselves.

 

 

[davel501]

On 12/6/2023 at 4:00 PM, mauserme said:

 

Those police lined up at the Wisconsin border are there to issue those same tickets that, 3 posts prior, you said "don't really move the needle in budget conversations".  And I agree, they don't even though they do generate some income.

 

There is a lot of disappointment in the anti-gun world about the way this is going.  They're in a position where spreading fear and doubt is their strongest weapon.  You can be a part of that if you like, but we'll continue to provide the best information we can, absent the hyperbole, so folks can figure things out for themselves.

 

 

 

All I'm saying is a small number of people are going to get absolutely crushed by this. It probably won't be anyone here but you have to accept the reality it might be you in making your plans. 

 

There is a lot of chest thumping about what people would do if the cops showed up at their house, etc. That's actually what led to my comment about it being a swat team and not some Fife. I'm saying if you're the unlucky one that that gets picked on it's going to be an overwhelming show of force, press conferences and the whole 9. If you're that person nobody is coming to help you.

 

It would be something if the rights organizations set up a hotline for people to call for legal help if arrested but I haven't seen any hint of that. I'd actually donate money to support that in addition to the organizations I already support. 

 

It's a big boy game we're about to play. Everyone needs to think for themselves about what is best for them.