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Concealed Carry Instructor Questions for Todd


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#1 mjw45

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 12:05 PM

Here is another thread to post/list questions that we have already hashed out in other threads.
Todd needs a list of questions for Tuesday and I would like us to be able to provide him a concise list ordered by priority / grouped by category.
Anything we can do to help make his life a little easier and more efficient while he battles for us is a plus in my book.
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#2 mjw45

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 12:08 PM

All the questions that I have seen in this thread have been added to the list.
I will try to get it in a better order in the morning, and review other thread for more questions.
If you have any others please add them to this thread or IM me.

1) Define the public storage

2) Will instructors have to physically keep the B27 qualifying target, or will it go with the student. If the instructor has to retain it, can we just keep a digital copy (i.e. take a hi res picture of the target)

3) If a company or org submits a curriculum will it cover all their instructors or will each certified instructor need to submit the affidavit?

4) Clarify instructor involvement, if any, in certifying the students grandfathered 8 hrs of training.
Or do instructors just teach the 2nd 8 hours class (law/qualifying shoot) and give certificate for that, leaving it up to the student to provide the ISP paperwork for the first 8 hours)

-Naming convention for curriculum, do we just call it whatever we want, like AGT IL CCW part 4/5 8 hr course?

-Also, a list of what prior training will allow an applicant to skip the first 8 hours is also needed.

-Dry fire- Draw from concealment- Not required by law, why is it in the curriculum?

-Clarify business name vs individual operator on application paperwork

-will 4 hours classes like utah ccw count for anything

-how will we be notified that we are approved as instructors and curriculum? phone, email, snail mail, smoke signals?

-when will ISP post official list of classes that meet first 8 hours of training, such as NRA Basic Pistol?

-When instructors and curriculum are approved and we begin teaching, will NRA basic pistol taught as the first 8 hours have to be taught by a certified IL ccw instructor?

-Does a full copy of DD214 need to be supplied to ISP, or can some info be redacted?
will a xerox copy suffice or does it need to be a registered copy from a county clerk?
Some people have privacy concerns about all the information on their DD214

------------------------- Questions added after 10:00 Tuesday Sept 3 --------
-Fingerprints for out of state residents/instructors- Does an out of stater need to visit an IL Livescan vendor or is there a mechanism for them to supply prints without traveling

Edited by mjw45, 03 September 2013 - 09:49 AM.

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#3 TimGiblin

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 12:18 PM

16 hours. Each hour so defined does it not allow for lunch and breaks? My class can do that.. but now were on 9.5 hour days tiredness leads to dangerous conditions.

If basic pistol approved and hunter safety. They do not meet the hourly minimums set forth by ISP. What application process/methodology of acceptance are they using? I want to use that for my day 1 application.

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#4 Craigcelia

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:56 PM

Will Utah count for 4 hours of the mandated 16 hours of training? If so, specifically what four hours can be left out?

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#5 FSA

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:57 PM

First draft of questions- Will edit/group them later, need to go mine lead right now.

1) Define the public storage

2) Will instructors have to physically keep the B27 qual target, or will it go with the student. If the instructor has to retain it, can we just keep a digital copy (i.e. take a hi res picture of the target)

3) If a company or org submits a curriculum will it cover all their instructors or will each certified instructor need to submit the affidavit?

4) Clarify instructor involvement, if any, in certifying the students grandfathered 8 hrs of training.

Also, a list of what prior training will allow an applicant to skip the first 8 hours is also needed.

Dry fire- Draw from concealment- Not required by law, why is it in the curriculum?

-Clarify business name vs individual operator on application paperwork

How about NRA 1st Step Pistol for 1-3

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#6 RacerDave6

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 02:57 PM

First draft of questions- Will edit/group them later, need to go mine lead right now.

1) Define the public storage

2) Will instructors have to physically keep the B27 qual target, or will it go with the student. If the instructor has to retain it, can we just keep a digital copy (i.e. take a hi res picture of the target)

3) If a company or org submits a curriculum will it cover all their instructors or will each certified instructor need to submit the affidavit?

4) Clarify instructor involvement, if any, in certifying the students grandfathered 8 hrs of training.

Also, a list of what prior training will allow an applicant to skip the first 8 hours is also needed.

Dry fire- Draw from concealment- Not required by law, why is it in the curriculum?

-Clarify business name vs individual operator on application paperwork

How about NRA 1st Step Pistol for 1-3

I don't think that is an 8 hr class.

Edited by RacerDave6, 01 September 2013 - 02:58 PM.

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#7 xd9subcompact

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:01 PM

How about: Once permits are being issued, will new instructors still be required to get fingerprints if they already have a carry permit?

#8 Stevepk

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:20 PM

Do we have to provide a copy of the DD214 to the ISP? To much Privacy Act info for me to comfortly provide a copy. Is there a way around that? What are they going to do with the documents? Shred or scan them into databse?

Edited by Stevepk, 01 September 2013 - 09:33 PM.

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#9 mjw45

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:19 PM

List of questions updated as of 23:00 09/02/13
Concealed Carry Instructor questions for Todd.

Matt

Edited by mjw45, 02 September 2013 - 10:19 PM.

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#10 sirflyguy

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:50 PM

I am curious about my fingerprint form. I got mine before the official form was posted. I got a handwritten receipt with my TCN on it. I am wondering if I should photocopy it and staple it to the official form. Also, I am waiting on Todd's report before I fill my application form out.

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#11 chevsuz12

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:00 PM

Is there any flexibility in time allowance per number of students? (For example, if I teach only 1 student it would in theory take less time to cover the material than if I instructed 20.) Or limitation of students per instructor ratio? (For example, a limit of 8 students per instructor.)

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#12 wtr100

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:48 PM

Is there any flexibility in time allowance per number of students? (For example, if I teach only 1 student it would in theory take less time to cover the material than if I instructed 20.) Or limitation of students per instructor ratio? (For example, a limit of 8 students per instructor.)


I see nothing that addresses this

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#13 Craigcelia

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:53 PM

[/i] Or limitation of students per instructor ratio? (For example, a limit of 8 students per instructor.)


Well I do believe if you teach the NRA Basic Pistol for your first eight hours you should maintain your 8:1 student to instructor ratio. If you do your own curriculum for the first 8, different story.

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#14 lockman

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:48 AM

Is there any flexibility in time allowance per number of students? (For example, if I teach only 1 student it would in theory take less time to cover the material than if I instructed 20.) Or limitation of students per instructor ratio? (For example, a limit of 8 students per instructor.)


When I took my BP instructor course, a blizzard the previous day turned the 10 person class into a one on one. We finished the curriculum in less than 1/2 the time. So after the BP stuff, we did a lot of range. She ( my TC ) also had me shoot the FBI combat course. And luckily I brought a .357 because all the .38 spl ammo was on the house!

If the time is fixed in stone then one on one sessions should earn a masters degree in the discipline or subject.

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#15 2atrainers

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:09 AM

Question for Todd - When can we expect word on acceptance or denial of our instructor applications? Some suggest that is months away but the ISP FAQ seems to, depending on how you read it, indicate that a list of certified instructors will be available on 9/7. Or not. That may only be referring to the date that the instructor applications would first be made available which, in this case, turned out to be completed ahead of time. So, when can we expect to hear about our applications?
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#16 lockman

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:53 PM

As for time, the curriculum should have already be designed around the allotted time based on an average class size. If all the material is covered and all elements and requirements are met then what? (instructor can leave and come back in two ot three hours just to make sure the student did not leave early).

This situation will occur with 4 or less students I can guarantee it.

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#17 Drylok

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:18 PM

On the online instructor course is it ok if we don't have the exact date in which we were certified? Mine says it EXPIRES May 31, 2015 so I'm going to put that I got certified May 31, 2011 but don't know if that's 100% correct.

Another vote for knowing how we're going to know if we got approved as instructors

Also, will the students bring some kind of a range certificate for us to sign on saying yes the student got more than 70% of the shots on the B-27?

Does hunter safety count or not? Because in hunter safety not only did we not get trained on the care and cleaning of a concealable firearm, there weren't any concealable firearms in the class to begin with.
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#18 Craigcelia

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:32 PM

On the online instructor course is it ok if we don't have the exact date in which we were certified? Mine says it EXPIRES May 31, 2015 so I'm going to put that I got certified May 31, 2011 but don't know if that's 100% correct.

I had the same issue. I guestimated.

Also, will the students bring some kind of a range certificate for us to sign on saying yes the student got more than 70% of the shots on the B-27?

You have to give them your own certificate indicating this.

Does hunter safety count or not? Because in hunter safety not only did we not get trained on the care and cleaning of a concealable firearm, there weren't any concealable firearms in the class to begin with.

Good question, I am still waiting on the Utah 4 hours of credit question.

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#19 Beezil

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:37 PM

On the online instructor course is it ok if we don't have the exact date in which we were certified? Mine says it EXPIRES May 31, 2015 so I'm going to put that I got certified May 31, 2011 but don't know if that's 100% correct.

Another vote for knowing how we're going to know if we got approved as instructors

Also, will the students bring some kind of a range certificate for us to sign on saying yes the student got more than 70% of the shots on the B-27?

Does hunter safety count or not? Because in hunter safety not only did we not get trained on the care and cleaning of a concealable firearm, there weren't any concealable firearms in the class to begin with.


the date you took the class is not when you recieved credentials.

you recieve credentials when NRA issues them.....so your initial credentials were for one year.....so take your expiration date and do the arithmetic.

that's your date.

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#20 soundguy

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

... If all the material is covered and all elements and requirements are met then what?


Ummm... Students get to practice cleaning different guns?
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#21 bobapunk

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:58 PM

... If all the material is covered and all elements and requirements are met then what?


Ummm... Students get to practice cleaning different guns?


Good idea! I can bring all of my guns and have students "learn" how to clean them!!!

#22 ChadN.

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:31 PM

my search function is wonky right now...will CFP time also count as well?
Please note that all my comments in this thread are only my own opinion, and do not in any way represent IC, or anyone else's opinions. I am NOT a lawyer.

#23 ChadN.

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:31 PM

Please disregard, something's wrong with my firefox and just noticed I double-posted plus I can't do any of the dropdowns

Edited by ChadN., 04 September 2013 - 03:32 PM.

Please note that all my comments in this thread are only my own opinion, and do not in any way represent IC, or anyone else's opinions. I am NOT a lawyer.

#24 Tvandermyde

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:07 AM

on it look for an update later
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#25 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:27 AM

on it look for an update later

Awesome.

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#26 stoph68

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:12 PM

I may have missed something in the wording of the new ccw law but I will ask this anyway..... The end of section 75 states the following.....
“A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement officer, a person certified as a firearms instructor by this act or by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, or a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this section.” Does our instructor's certification by the ISP equate to having a CCW permit? I know that logic would follow that instructors would by default have a permit but this is Illinois... Also if instructors are permitted by default then is there an expiration date and are we to be issued a card? (No requirement to send a photo in the instructors app.)

#27 Onytay

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:15 PM

I may have missed something in the wording of the new ccw law but I will ask this anyway..... The end of section 75 states the following.....
“A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement officer, a person certified as a firearms instructor by this act or by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, or a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this section.” Does our instructor's certification by the ISP equate to having a CCW permit? I know that logic would follow that instructors would by default have a permit but this is Illinois... Also if instructors are permitted by default then is there an expiration date and are we to be issued a card? (No requirement to send a photo in the instructors app.)


Instructors will still have to apply and according to the new rules just released by ISP via Todd, says we will have to keep a valid FCCL

#28 stoph68

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:37 PM

Thanks for the reply Onytay.... Next question... FCCL??? Are you talking about an FFL (Federal Firearms License)?? As far as I know there is no such thing as an FCCL. (Federal Concealed Carry License)???

#29 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:41 PM

I may have missed something in the wording of the new ccw law but I will ask this anyway..... The end of section 75 states the following.....
“A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement officer, a person certified as a firearms instructor by this act or by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board, or a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this section.” Does our instructor's certification by the ISP equate to having a CCW permit? I know that logic would follow that instructors would by default have a permit but this is Illinois... Also if instructors are permitted by default then is there an expiration date and are we to be issued a card? (No requirement to send a photo in the instructors app.)


Instructors will still have to apply and according to the new rules just released by ISP via Todd, says we will have to keep a valid FCCL

Which is REALLY interesting because on the application it asks if we were going to apply for the FCCL. However my understanding is you could have the FCCL OR FOID.

Firearm Carry Concealed License.

Edited by cgs, 05 September 2013 - 01:42 PM.

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#30 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:42 PM

I thin kthat emergency document was rushed and the information may not be 100% accurate.

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