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Some experts claim you should use 25 acp and 32 acp in FMJ for self defense


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#1 CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 08:48 AM

If you carry a pocket mouse gun some experts claim you should use 25 acp and 32 acp in FMJ rounds for self defense since the penetration of such weak rounds is minimal. They claim that hollow points won't even expand in these size bullets. What do you carry in your mouse guns?



#2 chicagoresident

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 09:22 AM

Have you thoroughly read through and watched the videos at
https://www.luckygun...allistic-tests/

I believe this will give you better data on a lot of your questions. 25 and 32acp are pretty irrelevant these days since all the guns still in production chambered in them are also available in 380acp.

They test expansion in 380 in the above link.

#3 Mick G

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 09:40 AM

Basically a .380 is as small as you should go. A .22 magnum would be the exception.

There are plenty of mouse .380s that are small enough to conceal.

The .25 and .32 are likely to anger the person you might shoot.

Stick with .380 or larger.



#4 Vodoun da Vinci

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 09:59 AM

I carry a .32 ACP on occasion and really like the Buffalo Bore 75 grain hard cast, flat nose lead.

 

https://www.midwayus...-nose-box-of-20

 

It *will* over penetrate. I run a custom Colt 1903 in .32 ACP and have had no problems with feeding or whatever with my guns - I have 3 of them. I used to own Beretta Cheetahs (81's and 82's) as well as Walther PP and PPK's in .32. I have also interviewed people who have been shot with .32 ACP as well as old cops who shot folks/defended themselves with  .32 ACP. While not ideal (handguns suck at stopping perpetrators be they .45 or .22) people who feel  that they are not adequate for SD have never owned or used them. 

 

The only guy I saw killed was killed DRT (dead right there) in a parking lot robbery turned shooting and the criminal was killed by a Raven .25 and 3X to the upper chest. D.R.T. with a .25 acp. Placement and penetration are the two critical relevant parameters and the .32 has plenty of penetration and it's low recoil permits very fast and accurate follow ups.

 

VooDoo


Edited by Vodoun da Vinci, 31 May 2019 - 10:00 AM.


#5 soundguy

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 09:59 AM

While bigger is better, it's an interesting question. I imagine there are some potential users who may not be able to handle even a .380 pistol (I just bought my first one and have yet to shoot it).

 

In the realm of "the best gun is the one you carry"... over the years, have there been similar advancements in .32 and .25 cartridge/bullet technology as there have been in larger calibers?


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#6 Bubbacs

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:01 AM

If you carry a pocket mouse gun some experts claim you should use 25 acp and 32 acp in FMJ rounds for self defense since the penetration of such weak rounds is minimal. They claim that hollow points won't even expand in these size bullets. What do you carry in your mouse guns?


Maybe if we had a FEW links to these “ experts “ you talk about in each thread.
Some would like to get a better handle on what it is thats being read and how its context joins our posts.

Thanks

#7 Glock23

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:03 AM

Unless you end up against a suspect who is looking for a gunfight, I'd say >99% of people will tuck tail and run as soon as you start shooting, whether .45 ACP hollow points or a 22 short.
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#8 Gator4838

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:26 AM

I listened to early advice that a mouse gun is better than no gun and I feel fairly confident with my 380 and hydra-shocks up close.it's easy to grab the 380 instead of the 9 or 45 when dressed lightly and running out of the house for a short time.

#9 RandyP

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:35 AM

Some experts also claim that we should take the time to educate ourselves, gain personal experience and form our own opinions before quoting them anonymously on internet forums.

 

It is also 'possible' that "Some experts claim....." is internet forum speak for - "I think I remember once reading someplace that....."

 

Just sayin' - lol


Edited by RandyP, 31 May 2019 - 10:47 AM.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln


#10 PPK

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:39 AM

If you carry a pocket mouse gun some experts claim you should use 25 acp and 32 acp in FMJ rounds for self defense since the penetration of such weak rounds is minimal. They claim that hollow points won't even expand in these size bullets. What do you carry in your mouse guns?

I have a couple of .25's and when carried they are loaded with FMJ's for the reason you mentioned. I guess I read the same expert advice but it's been so long ago that I have no idea of where to find the link (sorry Bubbacs, can't help you there). I don't own a .32 but if I did, I'd probably load it with hollow points.


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#11 GTX63

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:16 AM

The only handguns I own are all .45

I highly doubt there is a reported case of a bad guy who would normally have fled the seen until he discovered the caliber of the defendant's firearm.

I don't own either a 25 or a 32 but if I was unarmed and in fear for my safety I'd wish I did.



#12 Mick G

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:28 AM

I have to plead the 5th on why I poopoo the .25 and .32 but I did own a pawnshop at Madison and Keeler in the '90's.

People on crack binges usually will not run away if shot with either caliber.

They will run if they see a 870. That scares just about anyone.

Most of the detectives on the pawnshop detail carried revolvers.

Glocks weren't a thing yet. One of the detectives had a .44 snubbie.

I don't think he was concerned with follow up shots.



#13 MagSlap

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:43 AM

jd026.jpg

88 Magnum..It goes through Schools.



#14 KingWalleye

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:44 AM

The "experts" can carry whatever they want. My minimum is still a .380 with hollowpoints.

#15 Mick G

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:51 AM

Johnny Dangerouly

 

 

jd026.jpg

88 Magnum..It goes through Schools.

 

 

Johnny Dangerously. When you could make a far-gin movie and people wouldn't get their panties in a bunch.

I quoted the line above, the people I were talking to had no idea and were offended.

They weren't snowflakes either, they were Hoosiers with permits. They honestly thought I was serious.

After a lot of explaining it was like oh, so you weren't talking about shooting through schools.

This was around five years ago.



#16 CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:56 AM

Here is a link:

http://mousegunaddic...on-testing.html



#17 Mick G

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:05 PM

 

The landlord of the building carried a Beretta 950.

After an incident he went up in caliber.

It will make you bleed but it might not stop somebody who is hopped up.

Plus is a LCP2 much larger in overall size?



#18 2smartby1/2

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:10 PM

FMJ in my .25...but that is only because it is range ammo.   I don't carry my .25. 



#19 RandyP

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:17 PM

Someone totally 'hopped up' on drugs could require a couple rounds from an elephant gun to be brought down. I happily 'play the odds' and carry a .380 or larger handgun. The 'odds' suggest first that I will never need it, then never need to do anything beyond displaying it, then never need to fire it more than once, and then only after that need to fret over how many rounds I have left.

 

I DO always carry a spare mag or speed loader though.

 

May we all NEVER have to find out the ramifications of actually wounding or killing another human being.


"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln


#20 yurimodin

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:18 PM

I say carry what you are comfortable with after doing you own research since stuff like this makes the caliber wars fairly irrelevant.

 

 

 



#21 Mick G

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:24 PM

Someone totally 'hopped up' on drugs could require a couple rounds from an elephant gun to be brought down. I happily 'play the odds' and carry a .380 or larger handgun. The 'odds' suggest first that I will never need it, then never need to do anything beyond displaying it, then never need to fire it more than once, and then only after that need to fret over how many rounds I have left.

 

I DO always carry a spare mag or speed loader though.

 

May we all NEVER have to find out the ramifications of actually wounding or killing another human being.

 

You and I are in 100% agreement.

 

My experience comes from being at Madison and Keeler 6 days a week.

 

It wasn't a nice place back then and I doubt it's any better now.

 

I personally never had to shoot anyone but it was close a couple of times.



#22 Gator4838

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:35 PM

I have spent a good bit of time around Madison\keeler and the West side in general through work,and your right it's no better now.staring down the barrel of a 12g could change a criminals intentions quickly.

#23 ragsbo

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 04:16 PM

I doubt that those poopooing the small calibers would volunteer to be shot with ANY caliber.



#24 Mick G

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 04:54 PM

I doubt that those poopooing the small calibers would volunteer to be shot with ANY caliber.

 

First of all I don't smoke crack and hence have never been on a crack binge.

I don't even drink. I really was never into getting buzzed.

I poopooed the smaller calibers because I saw quite a few street shootings.

.25s and .32s were pretty common and people just scampered off bleeding.

I think .22s were more effective but only larger calibers would drop people.

Plus it wasn't like it is now, shooting people in the legs and then pumping bullets into their heads.

I wasn't the CPD so it wasn't like I would run out with the 870.

The meanest cop was the one who wrote parking tickets. A old timer.

He carried a .38 Special and hated everyone.



#25 Mick G

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 06:11 PM

Actually here is a chart about calibers and incapacitation. The amount of rounds does not matter. This chart backs up what I wrote in my previous post but I think it is flawed. The reason I think it is flawed is because if you take 6 shots from a .44 magnum, I think you will be incapacitated. OTOH you can clearly see that anything smaller then a .380 is a major issue. The .22 is more likely to incapacitate then the .32 ACP. The .25 ACP was a better round then the .32 ACP. This backs up what I saw on the Westside. For the slight difference in size, a .380 is far better then a .22 .25 or .32.

 

Ellifritz_Failure_to_Incap.png



#26 Eric D.

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 06:19 PM

Not quite what we're discussing, but Charter Arms just released the "Professional," a seven shot revolver, in .32.  But it's .32 H&R Magnum, which supposedly is as effective as a .38 Special.  Hopefully the Charter Arms rep will be at the ISRA range day.  I'd like to give one a try.



#27 Vodoun da Vinci

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:06 AM

Courtesy of Greg Ellifritz....

 

Screen-Shot-2015-01-12-at-9.04.10-PM.png

 

When it comes to caliber and power and all that there is not enough difference between handgun rounds to matter if one has placement and penetration. Where the round goes and how deeply it penetrates are the only relevant factors. Lots of experts disagree and the caliber wars will go on forever. Carry what you like and are proficient with and learn to hit critical targets on the human body and follow up until the attacker is incapacitated.

 

VooDoo



#28 Matthew_W

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:52 AM

Paul Harrell just did a video on .25 hollow points:

 

https://youtu.be/wJ4KlRVa0h8

 

 

For my first year, I carried a S&W Compact 22lr and didn't feel like I was under powered.  I just Recently upgraded to the S&W 380 EZ.

I think for a lot of these studies we see about stopping power and incapacitation, we are missing way to many details about the guns used.

Huge difference between my Compact 22 with a 3.6 inch barrel and the Bobcat with a 2.4 inch barrel.

Put rounds on target.



#29 Timber

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:40 AM

I know for me my primary carry is a .380 with Underwood. I have a .25 jetfire as a bug. However on Sundays with the 380 tucked in and the coat on it is much faster to for me to draw the .25 from the coat pocket. Both for me can be fired pretty rapidly imo. And with decent accuracy. For the .25 I only carry FMJs.

#30 Giant Teddybear

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 07:23 PM

 For $25 you can be an expert here.






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