IL Law and Home Property Carry

lockman · June 17, 2015 at 12:00 PM

Wouldn't it depend on where you live? Doesn't some cities have laws against open carry?

They wouldn't apply to handguns anyway

One thing to make sure of, if you live in a suburban area (like I do) you may not own the sidewalk and the strip of grass between the sidewalk and street (actually called a parkway, but I'm not allowed to park there, go figure)
Where I live that's not part of my property so OC there is a big no-no

Municipalities are funny like that. If I let that strip of grass get to tall it's an ordinance violation. If I want to do anything else there, it's also an ordinance violation. (Per the law. They rarely fine anyone for anything.)

I recommend every gun owner OC on their property all the time. And at their friends' properties, with their consent of course.

This would be an interesting challenge. How can a city, under threat, force you to maintain property you do not own or control?

Why did they abandon the concept of an easement? which you owned but was subject to various restrictions based on the purpose.

TRJ · June 17, 2015 at 01:01 PM

I just had a new driveway laid. It was interesting that my driveway only needed 2 1/2" of asphalt when the parkway required 6" minimum.

wtr100 · June 17, 2015 at 01:06 PM

So one last question say I wanted to check a law out, can I carry in a non posted police station??????????? Or all police stations considered government property... Just asking

a private police?

Holden · June 17, 2015 at 01:22 PM

A few years back, had a water main break, about 2-3' away from the curb in the street. City said that I am responsable for the repair/costs unless its in the middle of the road, then it would be on the City.

chibooey · June 17, 2015 at 01:32 PM

A few years back, had a water main break, about 2-3' away from the curb in the street. City said that I am responsable for the repair/costs unless its in the middle of the road, then it would be on the City.

When installing new water/sewer service in Chicago it is the homeowners responsibility to install the pipe up to the city's water/sewer mains (usually in the middle of the street). Then the homeowner (or their contractor) will obtain a permit and pay to have the city employees come out and connect the homeowners pipe to the city mains. The homeowner is then responsible for filling the hole in the street. If a break occurs at any point that in not on the city mains or with the connection to the mains, then it is the homeowners responsibility to repair.

lilguy · June 17, 2015 at 01:58 PM

IF you look at the survey of my place in the NW subs my property goes to the middle of the road. I do not have to mow my grass ever but I do because We are one of the few that has their frt cleared of trees. I carry often while out and about because Coyots try to eat my dogs occasionally.

Holden · June 17, 2015 at 02:14 PM

A few years back, had a water main break, about 2-3' away from the curb in the street. City said that I am responsable for the repair/costs unless its in the middle of the road, then it would be on the City.

When installing new water/sewer service in Chicago it is the homeowners responsibility to install the pipe up to the city's water/sewer mains (usually in the middle of the street). Then the homeowner (or their contractor) will obtain a permit and pay to have the city employees come out and connect the homeowners pipe to the city mains. The homeowner is then responsible for filling the hole in the street. If a break occurs at any point that in not on the city mains or with the connection to the mains, then it is the homeowners responsibility to repair.

Thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense. Now, I can stop giving that patch in the road a dirty look everytime I mow.

Blackbeard · June 17, 2015 at 02:28 PM

It is legal, and encouraged.

However, keep in mind that you could be playing checkers in your front yard and someone could call the cops because they are offended by it. They are obligated to respond. Depending on where you live, they might shake your hand and walk away, or they might give you a ride.

Just sayin'.

Give you a ride for what? Checkers and open carry on your property are both legal.

Disturbing the peace.

defaultdotxbe · June 17, 2015 at 04:37 PM

Give you a ride for what? Checkers and open carry on your property are both legal.

Disturbing the peace.

^^ This

Here is the ordinance for my village

Sec. 11-1. - Disorderly conduct.

A person commits the offense of disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace;

Basically if it bothers your neighbor enough for them to call the cops it can reasonably considered disorderly conduct

GTX63 · June 17, 2015 at 05:13 PM

Wouldn't it depend on where you live? Doesn't some cities have laws against open carry?

They wouldn't apply to handguns anyway

One thing to make sure of, if you live in a suburban area (like I do) you may not own the sidewalk and the strip of grass between the sidewalk and street (actually called a parkway, but I'm not allowed to park there, go figure)
Where I live that's not part of my property so OC there is a big no-no

Municipalities are funny like that. If I let that strip of grass get to tall it's an ordinance violation. If I want to do anything else there, it's also an ordinance violation. (Per the law. They rarely fine anyone for anything.)

I recommend every gun owner OC on their property all the time. And at their friends' properties, with their consent of course.
This would be an interesting challenge. How can a city, under threat, force you to maintain property you do not own or control?

Why did they abandon the concept of an easement? which you owned but was subject to various restrictions based on the purpose.

Funny story. Guy lived in a little house in a small town of about 3000 people. Long time resident. Always kept his yard HGTV ready. One day he planted some trees in that little section between the sidewalk and the road. He goes to work one day and when he comes home, the trees are gone; cut down flush with the ground. He calls the township and they tell him he isn't allowed to have anything planted on the street side of the walk as it could obstruct view, power lines, etc. He asked them basically the same question; why is he responsible for mowing the grass on property he isn't in control of? They told him that is just the way it is. So, he picked that hill to fight on and decided to quit cutting the grass. He kept his front yard like a gold course, but the piece across the walk looked like a pasture. He got warnings, then letters and finally citations from the city. He still didn't budge. He went to the nearest city and told the newspaper his story. Reporters confronted the mayor, who basically said the city didn't have the manpower to cut the grass in front of everyone's house, so the homeowner had to do it.

I don't recall how long it went on, well past one year and into the next. I know photos showed the patch of grass to be 6' tall or higher. Anyway, I believe the city finally caved and mowed the grass. Don't know if they reimbursed him for the trees.

cherryriver · June 17, 2015 at 05:36 PM

One of my instructor colleagues, a county LEO supervisor, tells the story of a fellow in a rural-ish suburban area in his jurisdiction who mowed his large lawn every week wearing a Model 29- a big .44 revolver.

Neighbors were constantly calling the police and they were obliged to respond. They knew he was within the law so they begged him to stop the open carry so they didn't have to waste officer time responding. The lawn owner declined.
Finally, after about the fifth call to 911, they watched from a distance until the guy inadvertently stepped into the parkway, a non-visible line that he had previously scrupulously avoided while carrying, and they nabbed him.
It resulted in a cuffs and a long sit in the back of patrol car, then they let him go.

The deputies considered the guy a big pain in the neck and just wanted to be rid of the situation.

Nope, the parkway isn't yours, it's just your problem.

borgranta · June 17, 2015 at 06:01 PM

Going to the police station or asking an officer about a law won't get much results.
Their normal response is "we can't offer legal advice".
Which I find ironic, since they are supposed to interpret the law to enforce it.

respond by saying "ignorance of the law wen is no excuse."

1242 Lambda Chi · June 17, 2015 at 06:15 PM

One of my instructor colleagues, a county LEO supervisor, tells the story of a fellow in a rural-ish suburban area in his jurisdiction who mowed his large lawn every week wearing a Model 29- a big .44 revolver.
Neighbors were constantly calling the police and they were obliged to respond. They knew he was within the law so they begged him to stop the open carry so they didn't have to waste officer time responding. The lawn owner declined.
Finally, after about the fifth call to 911, they watched from a distance until the guy inadvertently stepped into the parkway, a non-visible line that he had previously scrupulously avoided while carrying, and they nabbed him.
It resulted in a cuffs and a long sit in the back of patrol car, then they let him go.
The deputies considered the guy a big pain in the neck and just wanted to be rid of the situation.
Nope, the parkway isn't yours, it's just your problem.

Pretty JBT of them.

Indigo · June 17, 2015 at 06:23 PM

A few years back, had a water main break, about 2-3' away from the curb in the street. City said that I am responsable for the repair/costs unless its in the middle of the road, then it would be on the City.

When installing new water/sewer service in Chicago it is the homeowners responsibility to install the pipe up to the city's water/sewer mains (usually in the middle of the street). Then the homeowner (or their contractor) will obtain a permit and pay to have the city employees come out and connect the homeowners pipe to the city mains. The homeowner is then responsible for filling the hole in the street. If a break occurs at any point that in not on the city mains or with the connection to the mains, then it is the homeowners responsibility to repair.

Thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense. Now, I can stop giving that patch in the road a dirty look everytime I mow.

I believe the City of Chicago recently changed the homeowner responsibility to begin at the water meter.

borgranta · June 17, 2015 at 06:27 PM

One of my instructor colleagues, a county LEO supervisor, tells the story of a fellow in a rural-ish suburban area in his jurisdiction who mowed his large lawn every week wearing a Model 29- a big .44 revolver.
Neighbors were constantly calling the police and they were obliged to respond. They knew he was within the law so they begged him to stop the open carry so they didn't have to waste officer time responding. The lawn owner declined.
Finally, after about the fifth call to 911, they watched from a distance until the guy inadvertently stepped into the parkway, a non-visible line that he had previously scrupulously avoided while carrying, and they nabbed him.
It resulted in a cuffs and a long sit in the back of patrol car, then they let him go.
The deputies considered the guy a big pain in the neck and just wanted to be rid of the situation.
Nope, the parkway isn't yours, it's just your problem.

Pretty JBT of them.

One of my instructor colleagues, a county LEO supervisor, tells the story of a fellow in a rural-ish suburban area in his jurisdiction who mowed his large lawn every week wearing a Model 29- a big .44 revolver.
Neighbors were constantly calling the police and they were obliged to respond. They knew he was within the law so they begged him to stop the open carry so they didn't have to waste officer time responding. The lawn owner declined.
Finally, after about the fifth call to 911, they watched from a distance until the guy inadvertently stepped into the parkway, a non-visible line that he had previously scrupulously avoided while carrying, and they nabbed him.
It resulted in a cuffs and a long sit in the back of patrol car, then they let him go.
The deputies considered the guy a big pain in the neck and just wanted to be rid of the situation.
Nope, the parkway isn't yours, it's just your problem.
It was good that they did not run him in because a lawyer could claim that since a portion of his body was presumably on his law that he was technically still within the law and/or challenge the constitutionality of the open carry ban and risk open carry being declared the protected right the 7th circuit.

borgranta · June 17, 2015 at 06:29 PM

One of my instructor colleagues, a county LEO supervisor, tells the story of a fellow in a rural-ish suburban area in his jurisdiction who mowed his large lawn every week wearing a Model 29- a big .44 revolver.
Neighbors were constantly calling the police and they were obliged to respond. They knew he was within the law so they begged him to stop the open carry so they didn't have to waste officer time responding. The lawn owner declined.
Finally, after about the fifth call to 911, they watched from a distance until the guy inadvertently stepped into the parkway, a non-visible line that he had previously scrupulously avoided while carrying, and they nabbed him.
It resulted in a cuffs and a long sit in the back of patrol car, then they let him go.
The deputies considered the guy a big pain in the neck and just wanted to be rid of the situation.
Nope, the parkway isn't yours, it's just your problem.

Pretty JBT of them.

Jack booted thugs do not usually turn them loose.

Indigo · June 17, 2015 at 06:30 PM

One of my instructor colleagues, a county LEO supervisor, tells the story of a fellow in a rural-ish suburban area in his jurisdiction who mowed his large lawn every week wearing a Model 29- a big .44 revolver.
Neighbors were constantly calling the police and they were obliged to respond. They knew he was within the law so they begged him to stop the open carry so they didn't have to waste officer time responding. The lawn owner declined.
Finally, after about the fifth call to 911, they watched from a distance until the guy inadvertently stepped into the parkway, a non-visible line that he had previously scrupulously avoided while carrying, and they nabbed him.
It resulted in a cuffs and a long sit in the back of patrol car, then they let him go.
The deputies considered the guy a big pain in the neck and just wanted to be rid of the situation.
Nope, the parkway isn't yours, it's just your problem.

The logical thing to do to eliminate the "nuisance calls" would have been to have a deputy knock on the doors (or phone) and explain to the people complaining about a perfectly legal action that there is no basis for their complaints. The LEOs involved (or their supervisors) were just plain nasty, and/or lazy.

borgranta · June 17, 2015 at 06:38 PM

One of my instructor colleagues, a county LEO supervisor, tells the story of a fellow in a rural-ish suburban area in his jurisdiction who mowed his large lawn every week wearing a Model 29- a big .44 revolver.
Neighbors were constantly calling the police and they were obliged to respond. They knew he was within the law so they begged him to stop the open carry so they didn't have to waste officer time responding. The lawn owner declined.
Finally, after about the fifth call to 911, they watched from a distance until the guy inadvertently stepped into the parkway, a non-visible line that he had previously scrupulously avoided while carrying, and they nabbed him.
It resulted in a cuffs and a long sit in the back of patrol car, then they let him go.
The deputies considered the guy a big pain in the neck and just wanted to be rid of the situation.
Nope, the parkway isn't yours, it's just your problem.

The logical thing to do to eliminate the "nuisance calls" would have been to have a deputy knock on the doors (or phone) and explain to the people complaining about a perfectly legal action that there is no basis for their complaints. The LEOs involved (or their supervisors) were just plain nasty, and/or lazy.

For that matter the cops could have stated to the caller that they risk being charged with a felony for swatting their neighbor when he clearly is not breaking the law.

Holden · June 17, 2015 at 06:55 PM

@Indigo +1 The LEO should skool the callers on the LAW.

@borgranta +1 To bust the repeat callers for swatting.

Blackbeard · June 17, 2015 at 06:58 PM

Funny story. Guy lived in a little house in a small town of about 3000 people. Long time resident. Always kept his yard HGTV ready. One day he planted some trees in that little section between the sidewalk and the road. He goes to work one day and when he comes home, the trees are gone; cut down flush with the ground. He calls the township and they tell him he isn't allowed to have anything planted on the street side of the walk as it could obstruct view, power lines, etc. He asked them basically the same question; why is he responsible for mowing the grass on property he isn't in control of? They told him that is just the way it is. So, he picked that hill to fight on and decided to quit cutting the grass. He kept his front yard like a gold course, but the piece across the walk looked like a pasture. He got warnings, then letters and finally citations from the city. He still didn't budge. He went to the nearest city and told the newspaper his story. Reporters confronted the mayor, who basically said the city didn't have the manpower to cut the grass in front of everyone's house, so the homeowner had to do it.
I don't recall how long it went on, well past one year and into the next. I know photos showed the patch of grass to be 6' tall or higher. Anyway, I believe the city finally caved and mowed the grass. Don't know if they reimbursed him for the trees.

In many cases, your property survey will show that you do own the land out to the middle of the street. However, while you own it and are responsible for it, you are not in full control of it. The city/township will have a public right-of-way that includes the street and sidewalk. You cannot obstruct a public right-of-way, including planting trees on the parkway. Even though you own the land, others have rights to it.

I am not a lawyer and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or any night.

Jon15 · June 17, 2015 at 07:03 PM

People......seriously go to the ISP website and read everything you can under the firearms tab. Everything is pretty much spelled out there.

Holden · June 17, 2015 at 07:39 PM

People......seriously go to the ISP website and read everything you can under the firearms tab. Everything is pretty much spelled out there.

Jon15, Pease, be a good sport and spellout what is relevant to this post. We are not mind readers.

barryware · June 17, 2015 at 07:46 PM

A few years back, had a water main break, about 2-3' away from the curb in the street. City said that I am responsibility for the repair/costs unless its in the middle of the road, then it would be on the City.

I think you got snookered.. On your side of the shut off valve, it is your responsibility. The city's side, it is their problem. (typically).

Shut-off valve I refer to is the one they close to turn off your water lets say for non-payment, not the one in your basement.

defaultdotxbe · June 17, 2015 at 07:51 PM

In many cases, your property survey will show that you do own the land out to the middle of the street. However, while you own it and are responsible for it, you are not in full control of it. The city/township will have a public right-of-way that includes the street and sidewalk. You cannot obstruct a public right-of-way, including planting trees on the parkway. Even though you own the land, others have rights to it. I am not a lawyer and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or any night.

I wonder what the legal implications are or OC on an easement on your property. Is it OK because it's your property, or is it verboten because it's a public right of way? Doesn't effect me in any way, but I'm curiousSent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

kurt555gs · June 17, 2015 at 07:56 PM

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/17/e86683a0bf0faf6fd01a38ed4e3c3aa9.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Blackbeard · June 17, 2015 at 08:02 PM

In many cases, your property survey will show that you do own the land out to the middle of the street. However, while you own it and are responsible for it, you are not in full control of it. The city/township will have a public right-of-way that includes the street and sidewalk. You cannot obstruct a public right-of-way, including planting trees on the parkway. Even though you own the land, others have rights to it. I am not a lawyer and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or any night.
I wonder what the legal implications are or OC on an easement on your property. Is it OK because it's your property, or is it verboten because it's a public right of way? Doesn't effect me in any way, but I'm curious Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

The way I read it (and others have disagreed with my legal interpretations before) is that UUW has an exception for carrying on your own land. Regardless of easement or right-of-way, it is still your land, so the exception in UUW would apply. That being said, I wouldn't OC even in the unencumbered part of my land, and if I were going to try it, I would make darn sure that I really do own that land.

Holden · June 17, 2015 at 08:03 PM

Awsome comic!! So much truth in it.

Jon15 · June 17, 2015 at 08:12 PM

People......seriously go to the ISP website and read everything you can under the firearms tab. Everything is pretty much spelled out there.
Jon15, Pease, be a good sport and spellout what is relevant to this post. We are not mind readers.

I'll leave it up to you to go there and figure it out...

Holden · June 17, 2015 at 08:32 PM

A few years back, had a water main break, about 2-3' away from the curb in the street. City said that I am responsibility for the repair/costs unless its in the middle of the road, then it would be on the City.
I think you got snookered.. On your side of the shut off valve, it is your responsibility. The city's side, it is their problem. (typically).

Shut-off valve I refer to is the one they close to turn off your water lets say for non-payment, not the one in your basement.

My shut off valve is on the city side of the sidewalk. Thanks alot. j/k

lockman · June 18, 2015 at 12:49 AM

Give you a ride for what? Checkers and open carry on your property are both legal.

Disturbing the peace.

^^ This

Here is the ordinance for my village

Sec. 11-1. - Disorderly conduct.
A person commits the offense of disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace;

Basically if it bothers your neighbor enough for them to call the cops it can reasonably considered disorderly conduct

Two elements there, where is the breach of the peace?

It is not that the lawful conduct is the breach. It is virtually impossible for you to breach the peace on your own land without actually breaking a law or ordinance. At least at the appellate level.

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