iceman Posted February 7, 2015 at 02:55 AM Posted February 7, 2015 at 02:55 AM So i've been carrying for a while now and have just been keeping a spare mag in my pocket. I've recently been looking into IWB & OWB magazine pouches and I would like to know if someone were to see my magazine holster / partially exposed magazine (usually just the extender on my sr9c / shield mags) could I possibly get in trouble?
Trevis Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:08 AM Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:08 AM No, it's not a firearm. Even then, the FCCL law was written as "mostly concealed," which is apparently to cover the cases of accidental exposure of your firearm. The magazines or pouches might give it away to someone in the know, but most people just won't even bat an eye. They honestly aren't paying that much attention.
TFC Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:34 AM Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:34 AM Most of the rest of the country won't even bat an eye if they see a sidearm. Only the denizen of the liberal enclaves tend to wet themselves when they see one.
gangrel Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:41 AM Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:41 AM Illegal? No. But it does kind of defeat the purpose of having a concealed firearm...
spanishjames Posted February 7, 2015 at 06:02 AM Posted February 7, 2015 at 06:02 AM Would most people even know it's a magazine? Unless you're standing on a ladder for six minutes comparing cereal box nutrition labels, no one really notices your belt line.
jester121 Posted February 7, 2015 at 01:13 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 01:13 PM Disorderly conduct -- thus illegal. (just playing devil's advocate)
j2dawson Posted February 7, 2015 at 01:33 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 01:33 PM Most people wouldn't notice that it was a magazine, they'd just think it was a "clip".
pitdog69 Posted February 7, 2015 at 02:36 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 02:36 PM Saw a guy carrying a snub nose revolver in the rear pocket of his jeans yesterday. Apparently he has been doing this for quite some time as the out line of the gun had faded like a wallet does. There was no mistake that he was carrying revolver, I could almost make out the make and model. No one else at the auto repair shop noticed. He never took a seat and the auto repair shop was posted with a non compliant sign. People are like horses with blinders on, to busy with their smart phones to notice the obvious.
ddan Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:03 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:03 PM Hide it in plain sight. I have a Leatherman case that holds a 12 round mag nicely, and no one would suspect what's inside. When I'm feeling froggy, I have a safariland horizontal mag holder which completely covers the mag. Someone who knows guns probably knows what it is, but the general public has no idea.
lockman Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:45 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 03:45 PM Illegal? No. But it does kind of defeat the purpose of having a concealed firearm... As a generalization, I only conceal to conform with the law or my employers preference. So if I am defeating anything, it is the states desire to suppress my 1st and 2nd amendment rights making my carry secretive, yet be in lawful compliance with the act.
gangrel Posted February 7, 2015 at 05:08 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 05:08 PM Illegal? No. But it does kind of defeat the purpose of having a concealed firearm...As a generalization, I only conceal to conform with the law or my employers preference. So if I am defeating anything, it is the states desire to suppress my 1st and 2nd amendment rights making my carry secretive, yet be in lawful compliance with the act. Your preference. I appreciate the value of the element of surprise.
soundguy Posted February 7, 2015 at 06:16 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 06:16 PM In daily CC life, I can't imagine a need to keep an extra mag or two super handy on a belt. Seems like a jacket/suit pocket might suffice. I'd think there would be time to grab it and reload from cover while dialing 911? Guess I just don't see myself in a situation that would call for fast reloading on the fly in my daily life... I guess it could happen. Good to be prepared...
MagSlap Posted February 7, 2015 at 07:14 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 07:14 PM Good to be prepared... Be prepared... Thats one reason I love a Glock..33 round mags.
OldMarineVet Posted February 7, 2015 at 07:55 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 07:55 PM I actually carry a magazine holster outside the waistband on the left. It's designed to be close to the body and can't be seen under a tee shirt. Quick reload.
iceman Posted February 7, 2015 at 08:39 PM Author Posted February 7, 2015 at 08:39 PM The reason I ask is if you've seen the blackhawk spring retention mag holster it leaves the bottom portion of the magazine exposed. Most of my clothing options would cover my mag holster but in the case it didn't I just don't want any unneeded police attention. Thanks for the responses though. Anyone happen to know of a good carbon fiber mag holster?
GlockShooter Posted February 7, 2015 at 09:35 PM Posted February 7, 2015 at 09:35 PM One more comment on the topic... Legality aside, just like an empty holster or anything else, there is nothing stopping a bystander from calling the police. At that point, it depends on the responding officers as to whether or not they decide you are disturbing the peace, etc. It may get thrown out in court, but would still cause headaches.
Indigo Posted February 8, 2015 at 12:29 AM Posted February 8, 2015 at 12:29 AM One more comment on the topic... Legality aside, just like an empty holster or anything else, there is nothing stopping a bystander from calling the police. At that point, it depends on the responding officers as to whether or not they decide you are disturbing the peace, etc. It may get thrown out in court, but would still cause headaches.and my response to the officer would be "and this is a problem because?" IANAL From this website: http://www.centralillinoislawyers.com/practice-areas/criminal-law/disorderly-conduct/ To prove a charge of Class “C” Disorderly Conduct, the State must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you:1. Knowingly; 2. Did an act in such an unreasonable manner that; 3. It alarmed and disturbed another, and; 4. Provoked a breach of the peace. I wear a magazine holder OWB on my support side. IF I were to do so openly, then I would meet the first requisite for the charge which is knowingly. Yep, I put the magazine and holder on my belt, and then did not conceal it. The second requisite for the charge is acting in such an unreasonable manner that: I could see this being met by crossed bandoliers of shotgun shells, maybe, NOT by one or two magazines in holders The third requisite of the charge is that It alarmed and disturbed another, and; well, you wouldn't be talking to a cop if somebody hadn't been disturbed and made the call. This brings us to the 4th and final requisite for the charge: Provoked a breach of the peace. So what is a breach of the peace? http://thelawdictionary.org/breach-of-the-peace/ What is BREACH OF THE PEACE?A violation of the public tranquillity and order. The offense of breaking or disturbing the public peace by any riotous, forcible, or unlawful proceeding. 4 Bl. Comm. 142. ct scq.; People v. Bartz, 53 Mich. 493, 19 X. W. 161; State v. White, 18 R. I. 473, 28 Atl. 968; People v. Wallace. 85 App. Div. 170, 83 N. Y. Supp. 130; Scougale v. Sweet, 124 Mich. 311, 82 N. W. 1061. A constructive breach of the peace is an unlawful act which, though wanting the elements of actual violence or injury to any person, is yet inconsistent with tiie peaceable and orderly conduct of society. Various kinds of misdemeanors are included in this general designation, such as sending challenges to fight, going armed in public without lawful reason and in a threatening manner, etc. An apprehended breach of the peace is caused by the conduct of a man who threatens another with violence or physical injury, or who goes about in public with dangerous and unusual weapons in a threatening or alarming manner, or who publishes an aggravated libel upon another, etc. Unless you are acting bat-crap crazy, a magazine in a holder on your belt (in the open) while you are in line at Dunkin' Donuts for instance, does not meet the criteria. Standing in line at DD? Not riotous, forcible, or unlawful proceeding. Reload for your EDC? Lawful reason, no more threatening than the magazines on an officer's duty belt. Dangerous and unusual weapons? Doesn't meet the definition of weapon, dangerous, or unusual. Threatening or alarming manner? What are you going to do? Take off your belt and threaten to beat someone with it? I think that comes under bat-crap crazy, don't you? There's no legal offense in the non-bat-crap crazy behavior, no sustainable charge. Like a number of posters above have said, it may not be wise behavior to allow your magazine and holder to show, but I don't think there's a legal offense in there. You would (IMO) beat the rap, but you may not beat the ride. Especially in towns like Highland Park, where the Moms Demand Action get offended at everything.
hack_62863 Posted February 8, 2015 at 03:04 AM Posted February 8, 2015 at 03:04 AM does that mean when i see a guy with his pants hanging down to his knees i can call the cops because he is guilty of disorderly conduct
lockman Posted February 8, 2015 at 03:14 AM Posted February 8, 2015 at 03:14 AM I would dispute that you actually met the criteria laid out in the first element. Yes you knowingly put it on your belt but it is certainly a stretch to conclude it is unreasonable. As for the second element, as long as the carrier does not cause a public scene or throw a violent tantrum any breach of the peace would be provoked by the police or the complainant.
GlockShooter Posted February 8, 2015 at 02:58 PM Posted February 8, 2015 at 02:58 PM does that mean when i see a guy with his pants hanging down to his knees i can call the cops because he is guilty of disorderly conductThere's nothing preventing you from doing so. One thing listening to a scanner has taught me is that people call the cops for some pretty ridiculous reasons.
AuroraInstructor Posted February 9, 2015 at 12:17 AM Posted February 9, 2015 at 12:17 AM I really like the citation, Indigo. I appreciate something substantial like that, which means so much more than an opinion. I am curious however to know if case law has stretched the definition... Especially in Crook County.
Indigo Posted February 9, 2015 at 01:52 PM Posted February 9, 2015 at 01:52 PM I would dispute that you actually met the criteria laid out in the first element. Yes you knowingly put it on your belt but it is certainly a stretch to conclude it is unreasonable. As for the second element, as long as the carrier does not cause a public scene or throw a violent tantrum any breach of the peace would be provoked by the police or the complainant.Please re-read the criteria. Your statements don't match up with the criteria.
Indigo Posted February 9, 2015 at 01:59 PM Posted February 9, 2015 at 01:59 PM does that mean when i see a guy with his pants hanging down to his knees i can call the cops because he is guilty of disorderly conductI think he'd have to cause alarm or disturbance with a dangerous or unusual weapon. Most of these mopes will better qualify for a public nuisance charge instead.
bobapunk Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:33 PM Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:33 PM In daily CC life, I can't imagine a need to keep an extra mag or two super handy on a belt. Seems like a jacket/suit pocket might suffice. I'd think there would be time to grab it and reload from cover while dialing 911? Guess I just don't see myself in a situation that would call for fast reloading on the fly in my daily life... I guess it could happen. Good to be prepared... I think the spare mag is more useful in the event of a feed malfunction than as a source for more ammunition.
lee n. field Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:34 PM Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:34 PM So i've been carrying for a while now and have just been keeping a spare mag in my pocket. I've recently been looking into IWB & OWB magazine pouches and I would like to know if someone were to see my magazine holster / partially exposed magazine (usually just the extender on my sr9c / shield mags) could I possibly get in trouble? It's not a pistol or knife.
bobapunk Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:35 PM Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:35 PM The reason I ask is if you've seen the blackhawk spring retention mag holster it leaves the bottom portion of the magazine exposed. Most of my clothing options would cover my mag holster but in the case it didn't I just don't want any unneeded police attention. Thanks for the responses though. Anyone happen to know of a good carbon fiber mag holster? A- I can make you a Carbon Fiber Holstex mag pouchB- Someone noticing your mag on your belt is highly unlikely...
bobapunk Posted February 9, 2015 at 03:26 PM Posted February 9, 2015 at 03:26 PM A while back, someone contacted me because they were planning to carry a spare mag in a nylon tool pouch and they were worried about someone seeing the nose of a hollow point and calling the police. I fixed him up with this: http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt117/bobapunk/NICKydex%20Holsters/20140507_202107_zpsdf4d72ee.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt117/bobapunk/NICKydex%20Holsters/20140507_202130_zps2d6aa217.jpg It is just a simple piece of Kydex cut and formed to hold the mag and cover anything that would otherwise be exposed.
Indigo Posted February 10, 2015 at 01:41 AM Posted February 10, 2015 at 01:41 AM I really like the citation, Indigo. I appreciate something substantial like that, which means so much more than an opinion. I am curious however to know if case law has stretched the definition... Especially in Crook County.It's nice to appreciated. Thanks.
iceman Posted February 10, 2015 at 09:48 PM Author Posted February 10, 2015 at 09:48 PM In daily CC life, I can't imagine a need to keep an extra mag or two super handy on a belt. Seems like a jacket/suit pocket might suffice. I'd think there would be time to grab it and reload from cover while dialing 911? Guess I just don't see myself in a situation that would call for fast reloading on the fly in my daily life... I guess it could happen. Good to be prepared... I'm usually carrying an m&p shield 9mm so as much as I would like to believe 8+1 would be sufficient in regards to defending myself, I would HATE to be wrong in that assumption. lol. Thanks all for the feedback, I wouldn't leave my magazine pouch exposed in any situation and my concern was mostly because of the blackhawk mag pouch I was considering.
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