Mossberg 930 semi-auto shotgun

[Gsom89]

Wondering if I can purchase a Mossberg 930 semi-auto shotgun with no pistol grip and 4 +1 round capacity or if this is banned under the safe communities act? I do live in Chicago as well if that impacts it even more.

[solareclipse2]

As far as I can tell, as long as there's no pistol grip the only limiting factor on a semi-auto shotgun is the magazine tube capacity. IIRC it's limited to a 5 round tub so if the tube doesn't hold more than 5 (which you said 4), then yes you should be able to buy it. 

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 3/18/2024 at 7:15 AM, Gsom89 said:

Wondering if I can purchase a Mossberg 930 semi-auto shotgun with no pistol grip and 4 +1 round capacity or if this is banned under the safe communities act? I do live in Chicago as well if that impacts it even more.

I always the FFL I'm shipping to if there's a question, it's up to them

 

[solareclipse2]

On 3/18/2024 at 7:29 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

I always the FFL I'm shipping to if there's a question, it's up to them

 

 

There are a lot of dumb FFLs out there.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 3/18/2024 at 7:51 AM, solareclipse2 said:

 

There are a lot of dumb FFLs out there.

I'm not sure I agree but THEY are the one that determines if they will receive and give it to you. 

 

I have 3-4 FFL's I've used over the years, I didn't think any of them were stupid.   

One did call the ATF but I TOLD they guy do NOT send to a FFL, it was antiques and the ATF as default when unknown keeps them.  Made in ~1865 but no way to prove it. 

 

[Gsom89]

Thank you all! I’ll double check with my FFL but I figured I’d check on here as well in case someone had any experience with this. 
Thank you all again for the replies/info!

[countyline]

On 3/18/2024 at 9:34 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

I'm not sure I agree but THEY are the one that determines if they will receive and give it to you. 

 

I have 3-4 FFL's I've used over the years, I didn't think any of them were stupid.   

One did call the ATF but I TOLD they guy do NOT send to a FFL, it was antiques and the ATF as default when unknown keeps them.  Made in ~1865 but no way to prove it. 

 

 

There are dumb people in every profession, including doctors and lawyers, however, maybe a better description would be excessively cautious. Things are bad enough without people being silly and making things worse than they need to be (see threads on Cabelas and Bass Pro). 

[ealcala31]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:12 AM, countyline said:

 

There are dumb people in every profession, including doctors and lawyers, however, maybe a better description would be excessively cautious. Things are bad enough without people being silly and making things worse than they need to be (see threads on Cabelas and Bass Pro). 

I agree, there are dumb people in every profession. The thing is, some of these FFLs actually do this for a living. Believe it or not! So, they are trying to be extra cautious and not have the State of IL revoke their FDLC. Glock 19, easy sale. Ruger Mini-14 Ranch, well, it has been debated in this form ad-nauseum. Some FFLs will display it and sell it, while others will refuse the business.

[JTHunter]

On 3/18/2024 at 7:17 AM, solareclipse2 said:

As far as I can tell, as long as there's no pistol grip the only limiting factor on a semi-auto shotgun is the magazine tube capacity. IIRC it's limited to a 5 round tub so if the tube doesn't hold more than 5 (which you said 4), then yes you should be able to buy it. 

 

Don't forget "mini-shells" as you can load more than 5 of them and make that 930 illegal.

[Draal]

From the PICA FAQ's - Question 21 regarding How Capacity Size is Determined:

 

“Capacity” means the total number of rounds that can be used of the maximum identified chambered sized round.

If the shotgun’s fixed magazine tube will accept more than 5-rounds of the maximum identified chambered size round, it is regulated by PICA and subject to the endorsement affidavit provisions.

Extension tubes are neither fixed nor detachable magazines, however, they are considered an "assault weapon" attachment subject to the endorsement affidavit requirement if used for something other than hunting.

If the shotgun’s fixed magazine tube will not accept more than 5 rounds of the maximum identified chambered size round, it is not regulated by PICA unless it has one of the features otherwise regulated – for example a pistol grip or thumbhole stock.

Section 1.10 of PICA does not regulate shotguns but rather regulates large capacity ammunition feeding devices. With respect to magazines, belts, drums, feed strips and other similar devices for shotguns, if it accepts more than 10 rounds of any type of ammunition it is regulated by PICA; however, the endorsement affidavit provisions do not apply to large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

There is a specific exemption for tubular devices designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

[JTHunter]

That still means that a Ruger 10/22 with either a Ruger BX magazine (25 rounds) OR other after-market magazines (such as Ram Line) that hold either 30 or 50 roundswill be "outlawed".

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:37 PM, JTHunter said:

That still means that a Ruger 10/22 with either a Ruger BX magazine (25 rounds) OR other after-market magazines (such as Ram Line) that hold either 30 or 50 roundswill be "outlawed".

The 100 round drums are the best! 

[Draal]

I should have posted Question 21 from the ISP FAQ's in it's entirety in my answer above:

 

“Under Section 1.9 of the Act, semi-auto shotguns are limited to a 5 round capacity.  Under Section 1.10 of the Act, shotguns (i.e., long guns) are limited to 10 rounds. 12-gauge shotgun shells come in 3 1/2’’, 3’’, 2 3/4’ and even mini shells of 1 1/2”.  More than 5 mini shells will fit into a standard 12-gauge tube.  How is capacity size determined?”

[davel501]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:36 AM, Draal said:

I should have posted Question 21 from the ISP FAQ's in it's entirety in my answer above:

 

“Under Section 1.9 of the Act, semi-auto shotguns are limited to a 5 round capacity.  Under Section 1.10 of the Act, shotguns (i.e., long guns) are limited to 10 rounds. 12-gauge shotgun shells come in 3 1/2’’, 3’’, 2 3/4’ and even mini shells of 1 1/2”.  More than 5 mini shells will fit into a standard 12-gauge tube.  How is capacity size determined?”

 

That FAQ is basically a word doc that they can update whenever they see fit. Last I checked, it didn't even have a change log.

[Upholder]

 

On 3/20/2024 at 9:42 AM, davel501 said:

That FAQ is basically a word doc that they can update whenever they see fit. Last I checked, it didn't even have a change log.

 

and it certainly cannot contradict the law itself, nor restrict how prosecutors interpret it.

[captdan]

On 3/18/2024 at 9:11 PM, JTHunter said:

 

Don't forget "mini-shells" as you can load more than 5 of them and make that 930 illegal.

the capacity is based on  the largest shell the firearm is chambered for. Minis don't count.  As i understand it.

[davel501]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:08 PM, captdan said:

the capacity is based on  the largest shell the firearm is chambered for. Minis don't count.  As i understand it.

 

The law does not say that.

 

Quote

(F) A semiautomatic shotgun that has one or more of the following:
            (i) a pistol grip or thumbhole stock;
            (ii) any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
            (iii) a folding or thumbhole stock;
            (iv) a grenade launcher;
            (v) a fixed magazine with the capacity of more than 5 rounds; or
            (vi) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine.

 

[JTHunter]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:20 PM, davel501 said:

The law does not say that.

 

Exactly.  And that is the booby-trap in this law where "things" are open to "subjective interpretation".

[Euler]

The ISP is, in some ways, a regulatory body that can interpret the law however it wants, unless JCAR says otherwise. However, ISP doesn't enforce PICA. ASAs enforce PICA. Local PDs will do whatever their ASA tells them to do.

If you live somewhere other than Cook, Lake, or Sangamon, you're probably okay, but "probably" is no guarantee.

[countyline]

On 3/22/2024 at 4:42 PM, Euler said:

The ISP is, in some ways, a regulatory body that can interpret the law however it wants, unless JCAR says otherwise. However, ISP doesn't enforce PICA. ASAs enforce PICA. Local PDs will do whatever their ASA tells them to do.

If you live somewhere other than Cook, Lake, or Sangamon, you're probably okay, but "probably" is no guarantee.

 

meh, every suburban county and champaign county are far worse than sangamon. The sangamon county sheriff said he would not enforce PICA, Champaign said they would - if I remember correctly. Champaign has been infiltrated by U of I leftists.

[JTHunter]

On 3/25/2024 at 8:59 AM, countyline said:

meh, every suburban county and champaign county are far worse than sangamon. The sangamon county sheriff said he would not enforce PICA, Champaign said they would - if I remember correctly. Champaign has been infiltrated by U of I leftists.

 

Not "infiltrated" but "swamped".  I have a relative that lives less than 2 miles from the main campus, so I get an earful about some of the stupidity going on there.

[mikew]

On 3/22/2024 at 4:42 PM, Euler said:

The ISP is, in some ways, a regulatory body that can interpret the law however it wants, unless JCAR says otherwise.

The ISP is the law enforcement arm of the Illinois Executive Branch and does whatever the "big executive" wants, or seems to want.

The head of the ISP, no matter how he feels about guns and PICA personally, is appointed by the governor and serves at his whim.

 

 

 

[Glock43]

Isn’t their FAQ a contradiction to their “public hearings” where they refused to answer questions and said “we don’t provide legal advice - go read the law yourself”?