AuroraInstructor Posted February 15, 2014 at 07:41 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 07:41 PM What if an officer suspects I am under the influence, but since I am not driving, I refuse to take a sobriety test or breathalyzer?
Dr. Rat Posted February 15, 2014 at 07:48 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 07:48 PM What if an officer suspects I am under the influence, but since I am not driving, I refuse to take a sobriety test or breathalyzer?I would guess his testimony about an alcohol smell and your behavior would be enough to convince a judge or jury you were under the influence.
3ddiver Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:00 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:00 PM Interesting question. The obvious answer is don't drink and carry but I know you are just asking a question.
Dr. Rat Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:05 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:05 PM Wouldn't surprise me if we eventually end up with an implied consent provision like Michigan.
Elderberry Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:10 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:10 PM Based on how the law is written I do not think "I detected the odor of alcohol" would be good enough for a conviction. Perhaps field sobriety tests might -- although the last jury I was on refused to convict a guy for DUI even though he failed every field test (and refused to blow the meter) -- we ended up 11 to 1 -- guess who that 1 was... (d) A licensee shall not carry a concealed firearm while under the influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, intoxicating compound or combination of compounds, or any combination thereof, under the standards set forth in subsection (a) of Section 11-501 of the Illinois Vehicle Code. Sec. 11-501. Driving while under the influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, intoxicating compound or compounds or any combination thereof. (a) A person shall not drive or be in actual physical control of any vehicle within this State while: (1) the alcohol concentration in the person's blood or breath is 0.08 or more based on the definition of blood and breath units in Section 11-501.2; 11-502 (a) Upon the trial of any civil or criminal action or proceeding arising out of an arrest for an offense as defined in Section 11-501 or a similar local ordinance or proceedings pursuant to Section 2-118.1, evidence of the concentration of alcohol, other drug or drugs, or intoxicating compound or compounds, or any combination thereof in a person's blood or breath at the time alleged, as determined by analysis of the person's blood, urine, breath or other bodily substance, shall be admissible. Where such test is made the following provisions shall apply: 1. Chemical analyses of the person's blood, urine, breath or other bodily substance to be considered valid under the provisions of this Section shall have been performed according to standards promulgated by the Department of State Police by a licensed physician, registered nurse, trained phlebotomist, certified paramedic, or other individual possessing a valid permit issued by that Department for this purpose. The Director of State Police is authorized to approve satisfactory techniques or methods, to ascertain the qualifications and competence of individuals to conduct such analyses, to issue permits which shall be subject to termination or revocation at the discretion of that Department and to certify the accuracy of breath testing equipment. The Department of State Police shall prescribe regulations as necessary to implement this Section.
carry Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:15 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:15 PM What if an officer suspects I am under the influence, but since I am not driving, I refuse to take a sobriety test or breathalyzer? Nah, diabetic breath can smell like alcohol.
Dr. Rat Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:22 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:22 PM Might depend on the jury. You left off another subsection of 11-501a... (a) A person shall not drive or be in actual physical control of any vehicle within this State while: (1) the alcohol concentration in the person's blood or breath is 0.08 or more based on the definition of blood and breath units in Section 11-501.2; (2) under the influence of alcohol; I think that odor and demeanor might get people convicted of simply being under the influence sometimes.
Erno Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:23 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:23 PM Since we are to be the shining beacon of all that is right with CCW and the 2nd Amendment and since we will be constantly under a microscope for ANY infractions, if you think you might drink, leave your firearm at home.
dorvinion Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:30 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 08:30 PM You can refuse to help provide probable cause for your arrest. Also, the implied consent requirement for driving only applies to the breathalyzer at the station. Thats the 'real' one that you can't refuse (well you can, but the law says you can't) You can refuse to take the portable one that cops carry in their cars, as well as refuse to participate in any sort of sobriety tests that they might want you to do.
bob Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:05 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:05 PM I don't see how they can coerce you into taking a breathalyzer if you are not driving. However, 625 ILCS 5/11-501 (a) has 6 different criteria you could be in violation of (as far as being under the influence) and only the first criteria is objective. The other five are completely subjective and it really gets down to how creative of a report the cop writes.
Stargeezer Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:08 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:08 PM Dibetic breath can be a problem as Nystagmus (side to side twitching of eyes) can be for people with MS.
Mr. Fife Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:16 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:16 PM Just tell the cop you weren't driving, you were in the back seat, singing. That's not illegal, or is it?
billzfx4 Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:20 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:20 PM Just tell the cop you weren't driving, you were in the back seat, singing. That's not illegal, or is it?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTtEcWUv2X8
Tango7 Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 10:33 PM Nah, diabetic breath can smell like alcohol. Diabetics in ketoacidosis may exhibit an exhalate with a sweetish odor due to the body's production of acetone. A buddy of mine who was a cop who became an attorney said that the "smell of alcohol" is a defense attorneys dream, as pure alcohol had no discernible odor. Any odor one smells from alcoholic beverages is actually the impurities or additives, not the alcohol itself. His favorite phrasing for a stumble down drunk was "the overwhelming stench of intoxicants", although the "odor of distilled (or fermented) beverages were also used as descriptors.
RANDY Posted February 15, 2014 at 11:02 PM Posted February 15, 2014 at 11:02 PM My brother who is highly uncontrolled diabetic, was stopped in Coles county back in December I think. supposedly had only had two beers while working his shift at a bar, blew a .09, Lost his CDL due to the fact they couldn't get his blood glucose below 400 without insulin. My sister made the mistake of not taking him to the hospital after bailing him out to get a blood draw done.
Brad O. Posted February 16, 2014 at 12:10 AM Posted February 16, 2014 at 12:10 AM Ketosis (not sure if I spelled that right) is different from diabetic ketoacidosis, but produces the same acetone smell. Very low card diets to this.
spec5 Posted February 16, 2014 at 01:18 AM Posted February 16, 2014 at 01:18 AM What if an officer suspects I am under the influence, but since I am not driving, I refuse to take a sobriety test or breathalyzer?Another hypothetical? My questions to your hypothetical is if he suspects and you don't take the test mentioned then why wouldn't you take the test if you hadn't been drinking why are you carrying? If you have an arrest and then a conviction because of the said stop and you had a CCL wouldn't that affect all of us? Of course these are only a hypothetical questions to your hypothetical question. It was hypothetical wasn't it or are your planning to be a test case hypothetically?
john_horstman Posted February 16, 2014 at 02:02 AM Posted February 16, 2014 at 02:02 AM The legal limit for Carrying Under the Influence (CUI) is 0.05 BAC "with other competent evidence." Sec. 11-501.2. Chemical and other tests.(b )Upon the trial of any civil or criminal action or proceeding arising out of acts alleged to have been committed by any person while driving or in actual physical control of a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol, the concentration of alcohol in the person's blood or breath at the time alleged as shown by analysis of the person's blood, urine, breath, or other bodily substance shall give rise to the following presumptions: 1. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration of 0.05 or less, it shall be presumed that the person was not under the influence of alcohol. 2. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration in excess of 0.05 but less than 0.08, such facts shall not give rise to any presumption that the person was or was not under the influence of alcohol, but such fact may be considered with other competent evidence in determining whether the person was under the influence of alcohol. http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org
spec5 Posted February 16, 2014 at 02:14 AM Posted February 16, 2014 at 02:14 AM The legal limit for Carrying Under the Influence (CUI) is 0.05 BAC "with other competent evidence." Sec. 11-501.2. Chemical and other tests.(b )Upon the trial of any civil or criminal action or proceeding arising out of acts alleged to have been committed by any person while driving or in actual physical control of a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol, the concentration of alcohol in the person's blood or breath at the time alleged as shown by analysis of the person's blood, urine, breath, or other bodily substance shall give rise to the following presumptions: 1. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration of 0.05 or less, it shall be presumed that the person was not under the influence of alcohol. 2. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration in excess of 0.05 but less than 0.08, such facts shall not give rise to any presumption that the person was or was not under the influence of alcohol, but such fact may be considered with other competent evidence in determining whether the person was under the influence of alcohol. http://bloodalcoholcalculator.orgWhy would you carry and drink? I just don't understand it. Thanks just me.
AuroraInstructor Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:14 AM Author Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:14 AM · Hidden by GlockShooter, February 16, 2014 at 03:27 AM - Pending review Hidden by GlockShooter, February 16, 2014 at 03:27 AM - Pending review What if an officer suspects I am under the influence, but since I am not driving, I refuse to take a sobriety test or breathalyzer?Another hypothetical? My questions to your hypothetical is if he suspects and you don't take the test mentioned then why wouldn't you take the test if you hadn't been drinking why are you carrying? If you have an arrest and then a conviction because of the said stop and you had a CCL wouldn't that affect all of us? Of course these are only a hypothetical questions to your hypothetical question. It was hypothetical wasn't it or are your planning to be a test case hypothetically?This was a question posed by a student today and I find it intriguing. When I drink, it is one (maybe two) Mike's hard lemonades and that is it. I don't drink much... And I don't smoke marijuana, either... Except for that ONE time that I had the momentary lapse of judgment and took a drag on a joint....but it wasn't my fault.... I was high on heroin at the time... / purple/
TyGuy Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:46 AM Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:46 AM I wouldn't carry outside of the house and drink, BUT if I have a beer with dinner or a Scotch after the kids go to bed I am not going to write off protecting my family and myself for the rest of the night. Tapa-what? Tapatalk.
Raptor12 Posted February 16, 2014 at 12:43 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 12:43 PM The legal limit for Carrying Under the Influence (CUI) is 0.05 BAC "with other competent evidence." Sec. 11-501.2. Chemical and other tests.(b )Upon the trial of any civil or criminal action or proceeding arising out of acts alleged to have been committed by any person while driving or in actual physical control of a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol, the concentration of alcohol in the person's blood or breath at the time alleged as shown by analysis of the person's blood, urine, breath, or other bodily substance shall give rise to the following presumptions: 1. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration of 0.05 or less, it shall be presumed that the person was not under the influence of alcohol. 2. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration in excess of 0.05 but less than 0.08, such facts shall not give rise to any presumption that the person was or was not under the influence of alcohol, but such fact may be considered with other competent evidence in determining whether the person was under the influence of alcohol. http://bloodalcoholcalculator.orgCorrect, finally, and if you possess a CDL it is 0.04.
Drylok Posted February 16, 2014 at 01:37 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 01:37 PM I think were over thinking,
Dr. Rat Posted February 16, 2014 at 01:42 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 01:42 PM The legal limit for Carrying Under the Influence (CUI) is 0.05 BAC "with other competent evidence." Sec. 11-501.2. Chemical and other tests.(b )Upon the trial of any civil or criminal action or proceeding arising out of acts alleged to have been committed by any person while driving or in actual physical control of a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol, the concentration of alcohol in the person's blood or breath at the time alleged as shown by analysis of the person's blood, urine, breath, or other bodily substance shall give rise to the following presumptions: 1. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration of 0.05 or less, it shall be presumed that the person was not under the influence of alcohol. 2. If there was at that time an alcohol concentration in excess of 0.05 but less than 0.08, such facts shall not give rise to any presumption that the person was or was not under the influence of alcohol, but such fact may be considered with other competent evidence in determining whether the person was under the influence of alcohol. http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org Except that Provision 4 gives the state the ability to argue someone is under the influence with whatever evidence they have. It's up to a judge or jury to decide if that evidence is sufficient. 4. The foregoing provisions of this Section shall not be construed as limiting the introduction of any other relevant evidence bearing upon the question whether the person was under the influence of alcohol.
john_horstman Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:37 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:37 PM Why would you carry and drink? I just don't understand it. Thanks just me.For the same reason I drive and drink. A glass of wine, or 2 beers, with dinner, the law allows me to drive home, and, for the most part, to carry home.
moon Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:58 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 03:58 PM What if an officer suspects I am under the influence, but since I am not driving, I refuse to take a sobriety test or breathalyzer? If you consent you are waiving rights. Don't waive your rights. Ask to do it in the presence of a/your lawyer. IANAL.
moon Posted February 16, 2014 at 04:00 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 04:00 PM You can refuse to help provide probable cause for your arrest. Also, the implied consent requirement for driving only applies to the breathalyzer at the station. Thats the 'real' one that you can't refuse (well you can, but the law says you can't) You can refuse to take the portable one that cops carry in their cars, as well as refuse to participate in any sort of sobriety tests that they might want you to do. exactly
lockman Posted February 16, 2014 at 04:22 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 04:22 PM You can refuse to help provide probable cause for your arrest. Also, the implied consent requirement for driving only applies to the breathalyzer at the station. Thats the 'real' one that you can't refuse (well you can, but the law says you can't) You can refuse to take the portable one that cops carry in their cars, as well as refuse to participate in any sort of sobriety tests that they might want you to do. exactly Implied consent is a contract between you and the state that you agree to waive your right in exchange for the privilege of a drivers license. The only enforceable result of your breech of consent is the automatic loss of your drivers license. You FCCL is your only means to exercise a fundamental right in public, if they revoke it based on your exercise of another fundamental right there is a major cause of action. Driving is a privilege (currently accepted practice). Bearing arms is fundamental.
Dr. Rat Posted February 16, 2014 at 04:46 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 04:46 PM Why would you carry and drink? I just don't understand it. Thanks just me.For the same reason I drive and drink. A glass of wine, or 2 beers, with dinner, the law allows me to drive home, and, for the most part, to carry home. Got to agree with spec5 here. Regardless of what the law allows for, drinking while carrying seems like a terrifically bad idea.
Glock23 Posted February 16, 2014 at 05:00 PM Posted February 16, 2014 at 05:00 PM Why would you carry and drink? I just don't understand it. Thanks just me.For the same reason I drive and drink. A glass of wine, or 2 beers, with dinner, the law allows me to drive home, and, for the most part, to carry home. Got to agree with spec5 here. Regardless of what the law allows for, drinking while carrying seems like a terrifically bad idea.There is an exponentially greater risk of getting into a car accident than needing to draw, let alone fire, a concealed weapon, yet many people who have no issue with getting behind the wheel after a couple beers will agree that carrying a gun after a couple beers is a bad idea. Adding alcohol to the mix, the driving risk increases, as it is directly related to one's sobriety. Yet the need to draw/fire relies on an outside force causing the need for self defense, which a beer or two has no affect on.
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