So how do you report training scammers?

[RacerDave6]

I was having a conversation with a fellow FCCL trainer the other day.

He relayed that he had information about a training company not following the state or NRA guidelines.

He said he called ISP. They passed the buck and said call queen Lisa's office. They told him to notify IDFPR.

 

He gave up.

 

Whats a guy to do?

 

Dave

[Bud]

Consumer Fraud Division at the Attorney General's Office is the proper place and the link is:

 

http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/filecomplaint.html

[C0untZer0]

Lisa is actually really big on consumer fraud protection...

[RockerXX]

Sadly it's a no win situation for the up and up, I'm not saying nothing should be done (they should most certainly be reported) but even doing the right thing in this case is likely to come back to haunt us at the end of the day...

[RacerDave6]

Funny, an aquaintance just posted on fb that he just took training from this outfit. He was heralding the price and great training.

 

Here is the conversation:

Me

So this class for $125 fulfills all the requirements and they are approved instructors with the right coursework?

 

Him

yup,i just did the class!check out the link!

 

Me

Their page says it's a 2 part class. Part 1 (classroom) is $125 and part 2 (range) is $150. You need both parts to fulfill all the state requirements.

 

Him

The first 8hours online,and the second part at (xxxbigbox) shop and range time at article 2

 

Me

They give nra cert for that too?

 

Him

Yup, the the online course give you the NRA basic pistol training certificate !

 

So this outfit is using online training for 8 hrs and giving nra basic pistol for it. Hmmm

[soundguy]

Him

The first 8hours online,and the second part at (xxxbigbox) shop and range time at article 2

 

Me

They give nra cert for that too?

 

Him

Yup, the the online course give you the NRA basic pistol training certificate !

 

So this outfit is using online training for 8 hrs and giving nra basic pistol for it. Hmmm

Edited by RacerDave6, Today, 06:50 PM.

 

 

If online NRA Basic Pistol isn't allowed, maybe the NRA would want to know this was going on and take some action to stop it???

 

Where is the link?

[RacerDave6]

Him

The first 8hours online,and the second part at (xxxbigbox) shop and range time at article 2

 

Me

They give nra cert for that too?

 

Him

Yup, the the online course give you the NRA basic pistol training certificate !

 

So this outfit is using online training for 8 hrs and giving nra basic pistol for it. Hmmm

Edited by RacerDave6, Today, 06:50 PM.

 

 

If online NRA Basic Pistol isn't allowed, maybe the NRA would want to know this was going on and take some action to stop it???

 

Where is the link?

To my knowledge there is no online NRA basic pistol.

 

I'm not comfortable just yet publically giving up the outfit till I can further confirm their training practices, however I now have from 2 separate sources this same story.

[TyGuy]

Beat around the bush as to their name, company name, and location if you want to post about it here? Ahhh, purple won't work!

[TyGuy]

Not directed at the OP, but there have been several stories about trainers not following the law. I for one want the name so I can steer people away.

[TimGiblin]

Not directed at the OP, but there have been several stories about trainers not following the law. I for one want the name so I can steer people away.

NRA yank their creds then ISP creds invalid.

 

Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable

 

 

[RacerDave6]

Not directed at the OP, but there have been several stories about trainers not following the law. I for one want the name so I can steer people away.

NRA yank their creds then ISP creds invalid.

 

Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable

That is what I am working on trying to do.

Is any online training valid for the FCCL?

Can a training outfit say 'as part of your training you must read all the state and federal laws from our online links' and allow that as part of the 16 hours?

I would think not, as the law/isp says parts 4 & 5 must be 'taught' by a certified instructor.

 

A college for security guards. Whoda thunk it.

Stay away from a group that teaches out of a big box on the promenade

[handyflyer]

Please notify the NRA about this one. If they pull his NRA cert.....he's screwed. Online training is not allowed. Please notify tonight or tomorrow. We don't need these bad instructors around.

[TyGuy]

Is it security Guard College?

[soundguy]

Not directed at the OP, but there have been several stories about trainers not following the law. I for one want the name so I can steer people away.

NRA yank their creds then ISP creds invalid.

 

Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable

That is what I am working on trying to do.

Is any online training valid for the FCCL?

Can a training outfit say 'as part of your training you must read all the state and federal laws from our online links' and allow that as part of the 16 hours?

I would think not, as the law/isp says parts 4 & 5 must be 'taught' by a certified instructor.

 

A college for security guards. Whoda thunk it.

Stay away from a group that teaches out of a big box on the promenade

 

I'm pretty sure no part of the training can be completed online or on your own.

[InterestedBystander]

Some states do allow some online training for Concealed Carry but Illinois is not one of them. How can any trainer possibly believe this is OK in IL? And assuming they know it isn't, why do they think they won't be discovered?

[Rockdiver]

Some states do allow some online training for Concealed Carry but Illinois is not one of them. How can any trainer possibly believe this is OK in IL? And assuming they know it isn't, why do they think they won't be discovered?

 

 

 

OP,

 

PM me the details, I will see that it gets taken care of. But I'm sure as heck not playing guessing games.

 

No action will be taken unless that is all accurate....but if it is, I WILL see their credentialing yanked and post a public warning that any ISP training accumulated there is invalid. I will also do my best to see that those who were issued NRA certs will be notified by T&E that they are also invalid, so that the students do not break any laws by using that paper to acquire non res ccw.

 

Lovely times we live in.

 

Rocco

[Awan]

Check out this place:

http://www.securityguardcollege.com/

 

They offer "Illinois Concealed Carry Permit Class" at Bass Pro in Bolingbrook. They also offer "Basic Pistol Training" via online training and a final True/False exam at their office.

Basic Pistol Training will cover the academic portion of the State of Illinois Firearm Training Program. The program will be presented in a Video Format.

 

View the video as many times as necessary until you completely understand the content. The Final Exam will be taken in the classroom of Security Guard College. Make certain that the section on Aiming, Sight Alignment, and Trigger Control are understood.

 

Note: Below you will notice on the payment tab there are two price selection:

 

Sale Price of $155.00 is based upon taking the Unarmed Program with the Armed Program. This is for students that have not taken the Unarmed Class. You will receive the Unarmed Program for free.

 

Non-Sale Price of $210.00 is just taking the Armed Program since you already have the Unarmed Class completed at another training school.

 

Is there a Security Guard Basic Pistol course they are referring to in the above?

[sctman800]

I read on a different forum about an instructor telling his class Florida would only accept an NRA BP class for their permit if the trainer was an NRA LE trainer. I cannot verify this as the poster didnot answer my PM. I did e-mail Todd with the information and will take it to the GUNSSAVELIFE meeting this Tuesday. Jim.

[sctman800]

Couldn't figure out how to edit my post above so will add this. I certainly do not consider what I found as anywhere near as serious as what othere in this thread have reported but whoever this instructor is they are still putting out incorrect information. This could be nothing more than a mis-understanding on the instructors part and they just need to be informed, but it should be done. Jim.

[3ddiver]

I just don't understand what the problem is with doing it RIGHT. I know people are trying to make a quick buck but come on. I use the outlines as a minimum not a maximum. More is better.

[lockman]

I am not aware of any approved 8 hour training that does not include live fire. How do you do that online? If you can and it is a recognized course then it would be acceptable or ISP should not allow it for 8 hours. As for the second 8 hrs with the specific Illinois requirements I see no way any of it can be online or not supervised by ISP approved instructors.

 

If the class is a full 16 hour course, online time for any of it would be in violation.

[RacerDave6]

Just looked at their flyer that they have at BassPro. They say they are LE instructors and bang hard on the NRA 'civilian' instructors.

 

Rocco, I will send you what I have in an e-mail, too much for a pm

 

Dave

[pdpsc]

Can you post a picture?

[TyGuy]

Just post the info please.

[RacerDave6]

Tried uploading the flyers (pdf) but the uploader still does not work.

 

Yes, it's security guard college.

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

I got a certificate this weekend from someone who took an NRA Basic training class elsewhere and the certificate used was something they did on their own, not the official NRA BP certificate that the NRA issues. So I have pay ~$15 with shipping for my NRA student packets with certs and this guy doesn't have to do the same. Hmmmmm If this guy doesn't want to pay the $15 to the NRA he should just come up with his own "first 8 hour" course curriculum and be done with it rather than cheating his students.

 

 

 

On the other side, I had two other students with the official certs from another instructor but weren't happy with that instructor so took my 2nd 8 hours. But that's a topic for another discussion and me just bragging.

[Elderberry]

Their website lists the various criteria that they will accept for giving you 4 to 8 hours credit. I find it interesting that they do not mention military training in any form....

[scough]

Just post the info please.

 

Guys, while I wholeheartedly agree that ALL instructors should be held to the same quality standard, and they should be subjected to periodic audit/review, I think that we should develop a private channel for reporting deficiencies - perhaps to someone affiliated with the NRA, to review the situation, and for a 3rd party to address the problem with the trainer, instead of this witch hunt I see brewing here.

 

What you guys are proposing here is very problematic.

 

1. We certainly don't need any competitive trainers driving these kinds of inquiries for obvious reasons. There should never be the possibility for bias, or even the perception of such, under any circumstances which would then just muddy the water, and create fodder for the anti's. Rocco's comments, while I trust are good intentioned, are extremely inappropriate and he should not be involved on any level to ensure the integrity of any such action.

 

2. We cannot, and should not be publicly blasting firms without due process, meaning confirmation of the deficiency, and and at least an opportunity to review the situation with the trainer in person. Nobody has the right here to go blasting people before reviewing the situation, and let's not forget about the possibilities of law suits for libel, if there were some misintepretations. Keep in mind, this is new to everyone, and there is NOT one consistent and approved curriculum. Nobody knows for sure what was individually submitted by each trainer and approved by the ISP, so there is a ton of inconsistency built into this crappy process that the state rolled out. This will get better in time, but we all know the system is currently full of problems.

 

3. If the Trainer is proven to be deficient, they should be given an opportunity to fix the issues if the infraction was minor and unintentional without a public exorcism. I trust most, trainers are good intentioned and would gladly take corrective action, if their submitted course or outline probably should not have been originally approved.

 

4. Most importantly, those who already have taken the course should not be subjected to the potiental of having their training invalidated. If that occurs, especially over something minor, that would be a tragedy, and those would be left with no recourse and out some serious dough. Rocco, are you going to come to their rescue and offer free re-training for everyone that gets invalidated?

 

The ideal situation would be that the trainer be corrected, and be asked to give an updated or corrected course proportionately to those who already attended at N/C. The objective here should be to identify and confirm a problem, have a 3rd party expert talk to the trainer involved, and help produce a positive outcome for all involved - and provide free corrective training for those students involved.

 

My .02 fwiw.

[handyflyer]

I disagree. This stuff should come out publicly in this forum so others can confirm or deny what their experiences are. This is not the first time we have heard of a bad instructor. It needs to be stopped VERY quickly. From what I understand, bad instructors are stopped very quickly when brought out in the open for who they are. You never hear bad things about LHI, Rocco, CGS, AuroraInstructor, TimGiblin, Chip, bobapunk just to name a few. I KNOW I missed a lot of the good guys but those are the first ones that popped in my head.

[NRApistol]

I agree. We are only asking for trouble. Ox Bow comes to mind