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Automatic Knives for FOID Holders Becomes Law!


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#271 bmyers

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:28 AM

I tried to order a knife from Blade HQ and it wouldn't ship it to me because of Federal laws:

 

You cannot submit your order unless you select an exception below
*1. This item is restricted
Auto law & Legal Status Terms IN COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL STATUTES:
U.S. Federal law prohibits shipment of automatic knives across state lines, with the following exceptions:
(1) to civilian or Armed Forces supply or procurement officers and employees of the Federal Government ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in connection with the activities of the Federal Government;
(2) to supply or procurement officers of the National Guard, the Air National guard, or militia of a state, territory or the District of Columbia ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in the connection with the activities of such organization;
(3) to supply or procurement officers or employees of the municipal government of the District of Columbia or the government of any State or Territory, or any county, city or other political subdivision of a State or Territory;
(4) to manufacturers of such knives or bona fide dealers therein in connection with any shipment made pursuant of an order from any person designated in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3).
I do not meet any of the criteria above.

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#272 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:53 AM

Looks like Blade HQ is out of Utah. I believe interstate shipments between states are still governed by an antiquated Federal Switchblade Law. Here's good explanation:

https://kniferights....witchblade-act/

I'd suggest buying an automatic knife from providers who reside in Illinois (if you reside in Illinois.) Several mentioned throughout this thread...

Even if you purchase from Illinois dealer, the Federal Switchblade Law could still bite you if your knife needs warranty work.

For example, if you bought an automatic Benchmade knife from an Illinois dealer. Benchmade resides in Oregon. You'd have to deal with that same Federal Switchblade Act if you needed to send that knife to Benchmade for warranty work (or free sharpening) and for them to send it back. You should ensure your Illinois dealer will be a middleman for Benchmade warranty work (i.e. you send to him, he sends to Benchmade, Benchmade returns to him, and he returns to you.)

Edited by OldMarineVet, 14 August 2017 - 12:21 PM.


#273 cola490

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:02 PM

 

I tried to order a knife from Blade HQ and it wouldn't ship it to me because of Federal laws:

 

You cannot submit your order unless you select an exception below
*1. This item is restricted
Auto law & Legal Status Terms IN COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL STATUTES:
U.S. Federal law prohibits shipment of automatic knives across state lines, with the following exceptions:
(1) to civilian or Armed Forces supply or procurement officers and employees of the Federal Government ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in connection with the activities of the Federal Government;
(2) to supply or procurement officers of the National Guard, the Air National guard, or militia of a state, territory or the District of Columbia ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in the connection with the activities of such organization;
(3) to supply or procurement officers or employees of the municipal government of the District of Columbia or the government of any State or Territory, or any county, city or other political subdivision of a State or Territory;
(4) to manufacturers of such knives or bona fide dealers therein in connection with any shipment made pursuant of an order from any person designated in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3).
I do not meet any of the criteria above.

 

 

I tried to order a Kershaw Launch 4 from them and ran into the above.



#274 kemikos

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:15 PM

I tried to order a knife from Blade HQ and it wouldn't ship it to me because of Federal laws:
 
You cannot submit your order unless you select an exception below
*1. This item is restricted
Auto law & Legal Status Terms IN COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL STATUTES:
U.S. Federal law prohibits shipment of automatic knives across state lines, with the following exceptions:
(1) to civilian or Armed Forces supply or procurement officers and employees of the Federal Government ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in connection with the activities of the Federal Government;
(2) to supply or procurement officers of the National Guard, the Air National guard, or militia of a state, territory or the District of Columbia ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in the connection with the activities of such organization;
(3) to supply or procurement officers or employees of the municipal government of the District of Columbia or the government of any State or Territory, or any county, city or other political subdivision of a State or Territory;
(4) to manufacturers of such knives or bona fide dealers therein in connection with any shipment made pursuant of an order from any person designated in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3).
I do not meet any of the criteria above.


Very few people do, that's why we recommend using an Illinois-based dealer so that those criteria don't apply to you.

There are some dealers that will let you "certify" that you're one of the exceptions by checking a box on the order page, and don't require documentation; for those you can simply check the box and continue with your order. Federal law doesn't specify any penalties for a buyer who doesn't follow the law, only for the seller, so there's little risk to doing it; still, it's just better to use an in-state dealer and avoid committing fraud.

I've had a good experience with Adams International Knifeworks (link earlier in the thread) if you're looking for one...

#275 lawman

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:22 PM

Or if you ever get to Wisconsin, they have been legal there for the past year and a half.  Lots of places to just walk in and buy one.



#276 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:26 PM

"Crook County to introduce a Switchblade tax."

$0.25 each time you push the button.

LOL. I was wondering what that counter was embedded in the knife <pink>

#277 Hazborgufen

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:53 PM

The liability is on the seller, not the buyer. That said, a lot of manufacturers won't honor their warranty if the recipient doesn't qualify for one of the federal exemptions. For example, if you ship a knife to Benchmade for warranty service or as part of their LifeSharp program, they simply won't ship the knife back to you unless you include a signed form. Lots of internet advise on forums advocate for a less than honest approach to the issue. The better alternative is to find a dealer in your state who is willing to be a middleman.



#278 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:31 PM

The liability is on the seller, not the buyer. That said, a lot of manufacturers won't honor their warranty if the recipient doesn't qualify for one of the federal exemptions. For example, if you ship a knife to Benchmade for warranty service or as part of their LifeSharp program, they simply won't ship the knife back to you unless you include a signed form. Lots of internet advise on forums advocate for a less than honest approach to the issue. The better alternative is to find a dealer in your state who is willing to be a middleman.

You said "they simply won't ship the knife back to you unless you include a signed form."

That "simple"/"signed form" ensures you are compliant with the Federal Switchblade Act. Nothing simple about it.

#279 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:37 PM

deleted

Edited by OldMarineVet, 14 August 2017 - 01:45 PM.


#280 CplHunter

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:42 PM

I don't suppose there is a compiled list of municipal statutes which might prohibit possession of a switchblade knife, is there? As I understand it, this law provides no preemption. Quite a patchwork of local laws to sift through...



#281 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:45 PM

deleted

#282 Hazborgufen

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:47 PM

 

The liability is on the seller, not the buyer. That said, a lot of manufacturers won't honor their warranty if the recipient doesn't qualify for one of the federal exemptions. For example, if you ship a knife to Benchmade for warranty service or as part of their LifeSharp program, they simply won't ship the knife back to you unless you include a signed form. Lots of internet advise on forums advocate for a less than honest approach to the issue. The better alternative is to find a dealer in your state who is willing to be a middleman.

You said "they simply won't ship the knife back to you unless you include a signed form."

That "simple"/"signed form" ensures you are compliant with the Federal Switchblade Act. Nothing simple about it.

 

 

Agreed. I wouldn't advocate fraud which is why I mentioned finding a dealer within the state.

 

I will point out that it isn't to ensure that the customer is compliant with the Federal Switchblade Act though. It's to ensure that the shipper is. That's what I meant by "liability is on the seller not the buyer." 

 

And when I said that Benchmade would simply not ship you back your knife, I mean that pretty literally. It's spelled out in their warranty terms. If you ship them an automatic knife without a form, they'll keep the knife as if you surrendered it to them. Simple as that.



#283 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:55 PM

I don't suppose there is a compiled list of municipal statutes which might prohibit possession of a switchblade knife, is there? As I understand it, this law provides no preemption. Quite a patchwork of local laws to sift through...

Agreed. This law provides no preemption. Doubt if any list of Illinois municipal statutes exists. Once this law settles in, I will ask the chairman of Knife Rights if he will now be pursuing knife law preemption for Illinois. Some states he has got preemption with the switchblade bill. Others he's done it in 2 steps.

#284 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:58 PM

The liability is on the seller, not the buyer. That said, a lot of manufacturers won't honor their warranty if the recipient doesn't qualify for one of the federal exemptions. For example, if you ship a knife to Benchmade for warranty service or as part of their LifeSharp program, they simply won't ship the knife back to you unless you include a signed form. Lots of internet advise on forums advocate for a less than honest approach to the issue. The better alternative is to find a dealer in your state who is willing to be a middleman.

You said "they simply won't ship the knife back to you unless you include a signed form."

That "simple"/"signed form" ensures you are compliant with the Federal Switchblade Act. Nothing simple about it.

 
Agreed. I wouldn't advocate fraud which is why I mentioned finding a dealer within the state.
 
I will point out that it isn't to ensure that the customer is compliant with the Federal Switchblade Act though. It's to ensure that the shipper is. That's what I meant by "liability is on the seller not the buyer." 
 
And when I said that Benchmade would simply not ship you back your knife, I mean that pretty literally. It's spelled out in their warranty terms. If you ship them an automatic knife without a form, they'll keep the knife as if you surrendered it to them. Simple as that.

Understood. Thank you for taking the time to clarify for me.

Edited by OldMarineVet, 14 August 2017 - 01:58 PM.


#285 Hazborgufen

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:23 PM

 

I don't suppose there is a compiled list of municipal statutes which might prohibit possession of a switchblade knife, is there? As I understand it, this law provides no preemption. Quite a patchwork of local laws to sift through...

Agreed. This law provides no preemption. Doubt if any list of Illinois municipal statutes exists. Once this law settles in, I will ask the chairman of Knife Rights if he will now be pursuing knife law preemption for Illinois. Some states he has got preemption with the switchblade bill. Others he's done it in 2 steps.

 

 

The big one that I'm aware of is Chicago's 2.5" blade law, which aside from the super short length is also written with more strict language than the state's 3" blade law.

 

Basically, with the state law, anything over 3" becomes unlawful if you have intent to use it unlawfully against someone. Meaning that you can carry a longer blade if you have no intention of using it unlawfully.

 

Chicago's 2.5" blade law omits the "intent to use" language. I honestly have no idea if it's ever really enforced though. Heck, a standard Leatherman multi tool will have a longer blade and I'm sure I've seen them for sale in the city.


Edited by Hazborgufen, 14 August 2017 - 02:25 PM.


#286 BigKahuna

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:24 PM

In the AIK ordering process the following is one of the Terms and Conditions:

 

"By purchasing below retail cost, purchaser is considered a bonafide dealer as described in United States Federal Regulations 18 USC 1716 (g) (2) (1-4) and as such represents and states that sales will not be made to the general public, but only be made to those individuals and entities described in 18 USC 1716 (g) (2) (1-4) and 15 US 1244 (2-4) and any other local, state or federal laws regarding the ownership of such item purchased."  

 

Can anyone help me understand this? This involves the US Mail. Is it saying that if I order from them I am declaring myself a dealer? Or does it mean I won't resell unless I am a dealer?

 

Can anybody help?         



#287 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:14 PM

In the AIK ordering process the following is one of the Terms and Conditions:

 

"By purchasing below retail cost, purchaser is considered a bonafide dealer as described in United States Federal Regulations 18 USC 1716 (g) (2) (1-4) and as such represents and states that sales will not be made to the general public, but only be made to those individuals and entities described in 18 USC 1716 (g) (2) (1-4) and 15 US 1244 (2-4) and any other local, state or federal laws regarding the ownership of such item purchased."  

 

Can anyone help me understand this? This involves the US Mail. Is it saying that if I order from them I am declaring myself a dealer? Or does it mean I won't resell unless I am a dealer?

 

Can anybody help?     

 

    

I think this paragraph would not apply to people buying at AIK's retail price published on their website. You could call them to be sure.


Edited by OldMarineVet, 14 August 2017 - 03:15 PM.


#288 cola490

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:16 PM

OK, how do we get past the federal exception certification❓


Buy from a dealer in Illinois. The Fed regulations only apply to interstate commerce and US Territories (Guam, DC, etc).
Or buy from one of the many online dealers who don't require paperwork (I don't endorse this option, but it exists).

Just placed a order with Adams International in Edwardsville, talked to a nice lady named Crystal.

#289 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:25 PM

In the AIK ordering process the following is one of the Terms and Conditions:

 

"By purchasing below retail cost, purchaser is considered a bonafide dealer as described in United States Federal Regulations 18 USC 1716 (g) (2) (1-4) and as such represents and states that sales will not be made to the general public, but only be made to those individuals and entities described in 18 USC 1716 (g) (2) (1-4) and 15 US 1244 (2-4) and any other local, state or federal laws regarding the ownership of such item purchased."  

 

Can anyone help me understand this? This involves the US Mail. Is it saying that if I order from them I am declaring myself a dealer? Or does it mean I won't resell unless I am a dealer?

 

Can anybody help?         

 

Your not declaring anything, they can consider anything they want. 


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#290 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:34 PM

Someone just gave me one of these as a gift, literally a couple of hours ago:

 

A19-SCHOTF.gif



"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."  
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
 
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 

"One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest." —Me

 

"Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck."—Samurai proverb

 

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."—Robert Heinlein

 

"I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist."—Me

 

"It ain't braggin' if you done it."—Will Rogers

 

InX89li.jpg     


#291 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:39 PM

Knife Rights’ Illinois Switchblade Ban Repeal Signed! Effective Immediately

https://kniferights....ve-immediately/

 

 

From that article:

 

WARNING: Without state knife law preemption, Chicago’s switchblade ban continues. No doubt others ban switchblades as well and this patchwork of local bans is potentially waiting to trap unwary knife carriers.

 

Does this mean that in Chicago, even if someone has a FOID card, they cannot own a switchblade, despite this law's passage?



"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."  
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
 
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 

"One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest." —Me

 

"Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck."—Samurai proverb

 

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."—Robert Heinlein

 

"I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist."—Me

 

"It ain't braggin' if you done it."—Will Rogers

 

InX89li.jpg     


#292 kemikos

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:55 PM

Knife Rights’ Illinois Switchblade Ban Repeal Signed! Effective Immediately
https://kniferights....ve-immediately/

 
From that article:
 
WARNING: Without state knife law preemption, Chicago’s switchblade ban continues. No doubt others ban switchblades as well and this patchwork of local bans is potentially waiting to trap unwary knife carriers.
 
Does this mean that in Chicago, even if someone has a FOID card, they cannot own a switchblade, despite this law's passage?

I've glanced through the Chicago ordinance and didn't see anything about switchblades, just the length limit. I was under the impression that an automatic under 2.5" would be legal.

I'm not a lawyer, so I wouldn't advise anyone either way, but if someone could reference where in the ordinance the auto ban is, I'd appreciate it.

I know for sure Oak Forest bans any spring-loaded knife (even non-auto assisted folders, which have been legal in the rest of the state all along).

Ronin, that Schrade is actually considered an assisted-opening knife, and had been legal in most of the state all along. Cool design, I had one a few years ago.

#293 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:19 PM

 

 

Knife Rights’ Illinois Switchblade Ban Repeal Signed! Effective Immediately
https://kniferights....ve-immediately/

 
From that article:
 
WARNING: Without state knife law preemption, Chicago’s switchblade ban continues. No doubt others ban switchblades as well and this patchwork of local bans is potentially waiting to trap unwary knife carriers.
 
Does this mean that in Chicago, even if someone has a FOID card, they cannot own a switchblade, despite this law's passage?

I've glanced through the Chicago ordinance and didn't see anything about switchblades, just the length limit. I was under the impression that an automatic under 2.5" would be legal.

I'm not a lawyer, so I wouldn't advise anyone either way, but if someone could reference where in the ordinance the auto ban is, I'd appreciate it.

I know for sure Oak Forest bans any spring-loaded knife (even non-auto assisted folders, which have been legal in the rest of the state all along).

Ronin, that Schrade is actually considered an assisted-opening knife, and had been legal in most of the state all along. Cool design, I had one a few years ago.

 

 

Yes, I know. I was thinking that now that I have one of these, does it moot my need for an actual automatic knife?

 

Also, I believe it says here . . .

 

https://chicagocode....xt/8-24-020.txt

 

"c. No person shall carry or possess any knife, the blade of which is released by

a spring mechanism, including knives known as “switch-blades”, any
blackjack, slingshot, sandclub, sandbag, metal knuckles or bludgeon."

 

Which would, I think, make any switchblade illegal without preemption.


Edited by ChicagoRonin70, 14 August 2017 - 04:24 PM.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."  
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
 
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 

"One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest." —Me

 

"Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck."—Samurai proverb

 

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."—Robert Heinlein

 

"I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist."—Me

 

"It ain't braggin' if you done it."—Will Rogers

 

InX89li.jpg     


#294 Plinkermostly

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:19 PM

Per an on-line vendor (BladeHQ):

 

 

"Hello,

Thanks for your email. As long as it is legal for you to receive the knife we can ship it to you. For you area we do require verification of your active duty military or law enforcement status. You can do this by sending us a picture of your law enforcement ID or sending us an email from your .mil email address.

You can verify any of your local legalities by speaking with a legal advisor or a member of law enforcement. If you have any further questions please let me know.

Thanks again,

Eric L
Customer Service Agent
Warranty Specialist"
 
So I would guess they are following their existing shipping restrictions.


#295 OldMarineVet

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:42 PM

Per an on-line vendor (BladeHQ):
 
 
"Hello,

Thanks for your email. As long as it is legal for you to receive the knife we can ship it to you. For you area we do require verification of your active duty military or law enforcement status. You can do this by sending us a picture of your law enforcement ID or sending us an email from your .mil email address.
You can verify any of your local legalities by speaking with a legal advisor or a member of law enforcement. If you have any further questions please let me know.
Thanks again,

Eric L
Customer Service Agent
Warranty Specialist"
 
So I would guess they are following their existing shipping restrictions.

which are following the restrictions of the Federal Switchblade Act.

That's why they say "For you area we do require verification of your active duty military or law enforcement status. You can do this by sending us a picture of your law enforcement ID or sending us an email from your .mil email address." They need that proof for all legal states outside of their state.

See posts #272 through #274 above.

#296 lockman

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:10 AM

If traveling in Chicago carry the least expensive knife as the usual course of action is confiscation. This situation will provide interesting legal arguments into the future. Personally I feel advocating violating a municipal ordinance that does not violate any bodies rights and is furthering the spirit of liberty and self determination is the moral high ground. Just be prepared to to forfeit the knife and face the fractional possibility of a fine. I am sure a few around here will become dealers. If I buy 10 knives at wholesale, sell them at retail I am a dealer. No license I am aware of. Is there? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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#297 Plinkermostly

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:36 AM

Just Crook County tax!



#298 HeavyDuty

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:49 AM

No surprise, but Aurora has a ban on the books:

Sec. 29-43. - Unlawful use of weapons.

(a)
A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(1)
Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or carries any bludgeon, blackjack, slingshot, sand-club, sand-bag, metal knuckles, throwing star, butterfly knife, nunchaku (which shall be defined for purposes of this subsection as an instrument consisting of two (2) or more sticks, clubs, bars or rods to be used as handles, connected by a rope, cord, wire or chain, in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense) or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife; or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas; or

#299 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:55 AM

 

Per an on-line vendor (BladeHQ):

 

 

"Hello,

Thanks for your email. As long as it is legal for you to receive the knife we can ship it to you. For you area we do require verification of your active duty military or law enforcement status. You can do this by sending us a picture of your law enforcement ID or sending us an email from your .mil email address.

You can verify any of your local legalities by speaking with a legal advisor or a member of law enforcement. If you have any further questions please let me know.

Thanks again,

Eric L
Customer Service Agent
Warranty Specialist"
 
So I would guess they are following their existing shipping restrictions.

 

 

I've purchased switchblades from BladeHQ several times and have never been requested to provide verification, maybe this will be screwed up now from the attention given to it.   I keep a small pile of the S&W's since on occasion I loose one or give one to a friend.  No massive scary knife it's just a great little I need this open! 


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#300 MrTriple

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:30 AM

Is it true that Chicago's ban still applies?
"The point of [so-called "assault weapon" bans]...is not to ban firearms that are dangerous, it's to ban firearms that gun owners want to own because the people making the laws don't like gun owners. If we want to buy non-semiauto AR-style rifles, they'll ban those too, and for the same reason."

-Hapless