What to do with handguns that have magazines that hold more than 15 rounds now?

[Mr. Fife]

When I first had to register a handgun, it was when Chicago had it's "Chicago Handgun Permit". I think there was a magazine limit back then, so I had to register my pistol with 10 round magazines. I think I also registered a six round revolver, and a 30-30 with a fixed magazine, all legal for Chicago. Since then I added a pump shotgun to my collection and have been confident in my security, but dammit when I move out of Illinois I will own every scary gun that is legal for where I end up moving too, lol. I can't remember if I had to pay to register my guns, I think not, but if I did I would like some recourse to get my money back. This was a long time ago, we've come a long way.

[Wild Bill]

I wouldn't change a damn thing and just wait for the law to be overturned, because it will be eventually.

[ealcala31]

On 12/25/2023 at 8:16 PM, Mr. Fife said:

When I first had to register a handgun, it was when Chicago had it's "Chicago Handgun Permit". I think there was a magazine limit back then, so I had to register my pistol with 10 round magazines. I think I also registered a six round revolver, and a 30-30 with a fixed magazine, all legal for Chicago. Since then I added a pump shotgun to my collection and have been confident in my security, but dammit when I move out of Illinois I will own every scary gun that is legal for where I end up moving too, lol. I can't remember if I had to pay to register my guns, I think not, but if I did I would like some recourse to get my money back. This was a long time ago, we've come a long way.

I registered my guns with Chicago as well. Chicago had a 12rd limit. I believe I registered 4 guns until I moved to Oak Lawn. Had 3.5yrs of freedom until PICA. Judge McGlynn is trying to move this along, but Illinois will do everything in its power to crawl this through the courts. Plan A is to convince my wife to cross state lines. Plan B is waiting this out like everyone else. Even if we win, we still have to let NFA cases work it's way through the courts. IL wins, I'm out. Plan A full steam ahead...

[John Q Public]

12 rounds doesn't stand under CC. 

[Sol-Invictus]

My wife spoke to the Sheriff yesterday and he stated they have no intention of violating peoples constitutional rights and none of police or district ISP have any plans to do so either. He said if any of the items "moved out of state" happen to show back up instate nothing will be done about it around here.

[Vodoun da Vinci]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:39 PM, John Q Public said:

12 rounds doesn't stand under CC. 

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

 

VooDoo

[soundguy]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:15 AM, Vodoun da Vinci said:

12 rounds doesn't stand under CC. 

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

 

VooDoo

 

With the then new CC law, handguns could be regulated only by the state. Chicago could no longer enforce a magazine limit, which they never did enforce. Currently it is on the books as 15 rounds. Cook County still claims to have a 10 round limit.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[Stratomaster18]

On 12/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, davel501 said:

 

What is your source for this? 

See the attached image. 
 

https://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=10200SB2226ham002&GA=102&SessionId=110&DocTypeId=SB&LegID=134879&DocNum=2226&GAID=16&SpecSess=&Session=

[Vodoun da Vinci]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:32 AM, soundguy said:

 

With the then new CC law, handguns could be regulated only by the state. Chicago could no longer enforce a magazine limit, which they never did enforce. Currently it is on the books as 15 rounds. Cook County still claims to have a 10 round limit.

 

Cheers,

Tim

Thank You.

 

VooDoo

[davel501]

On 12/27/2023 at 9:12 AM, Stratomaster18 said:

See the attached image. 
 

https://ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=10200SB2226ham002&GA=102&SessionId=110&DocTypeId=SB&LegID=134879&DocNum=2226&GAID=16&SpecSess=&Session=

 

That's a bill, not the law. Here is what passed: https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K24-1.9.htm

[Stratomaster18]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:15 AM, davel501 said:

 

That's a bill, not the law. Here is what passed: https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K24-1.9.htm

Gotcha. My mistake. Thank you for clarifying that. 

[ealcala31]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:39 PM, John Q Public said:

12 rounds doesn't stand under CC. 

The Chicago Handgun Permit came right after McDonald vs Chicago. I think Chicago started giving out the CHP's to everyone back in 2011. That was b4 the FCCL came into effect. I think I got mine at the end of 2010 because I was taking an armed security class and the school tossed in the 3hr training course for FREE. Chicago allowed armed security to turn in their application a few months earlier than everyone else. If I remember correctly.

[davel501]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:15 PM, Stratomaster18 said:

Gotcha. My mistake. Thank you for clarifying that. 

 

I only knew because I made the same mistake. Half of us have. It's like they meant it to be confusing. 

[ealcala31]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:32 AM, soundguy said:

 

With the then new CC law, handguns could be regulated only by the state. Chicago could no longer enforce a magazine limit, which they never did enforce. Currently it is on the books as 15 rounds. Cook County still claims to have a 10 round limit.

 

Cheers,

Tim

We definitely lived in a tale of 2 cities. It wasn't until I took a part time job at Shoot Point Blank (now Range USA) in Hodgkins back in Oct 2017, that I realized how much Chicago did enforce their 15rd magazine ordinance. I spoke to multiple customers who were cited for violating Chicago's magazine ordinance. Each gave the exact same story. CPD took them to the station, cited them, confiscated their magazine(s), and gave them back the firearm and the ammunition. After hearing a few stories, I looked up the relevant statute on Chicago's website for violations. CPD enforced this law pretty regularly. Fast forward, I am now an FFL and have a few customers who are CPD. This particular CPD works in Bridgeport on 31st & Halsted, I believe last time he said he has moved on to some specialized unit. He said he regularly sees his fellow officers arresting CCL Holders with AR/AK Pistols and trying to charge them w/SBR's (this is prior to PICA). Surprisingly, CCSA denied the charges saying they are pistols. At the end, he said they were cited for the magazine violation.

[soundguy]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:46 PM, ealcala31 said:

At the end, he said they were cited for the magazine violation.

 

Part of the story is missing... why were they interacting with CPD in the first place and how was CPD even aware they had a gun?

 

Cheers,

Tim

[ealcala31]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:12 AM, soundguy said:

 

Part of the story is missing... why were they interacting with CPD in the first place and how was CPD even aware they had a gun?

 

Cheers,

Tim

Very common reason, traffic violation. I think one guy Hollywood a Stop sign and the other guy was speeding. CPD chose to disarm them, that's where the fun began. Me, personally, I have not been disarmed in IL. I have been disarmed in Indiana by the Indiana State Police. Why? Speeding...

[JTHunter]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:15 AM, davel501 said:

That's a bill, not the law. Here is what passed: https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K24-1.9.htm

 

The difference between what you posted and what Stratomaster had was interesting.  What I noticed (to my regret) was the elimination of the part about "rimfires" in the actual law.  That is how they can now call a Ruger 10/22 an ""assault weapon"". 😡 

[davel501]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:43 PM, JTHunter said:

 

The difference between what you posted and what Stratomaster had was interesting.  What I noticed (to my regret) was the elimination of the part about "rimfires" in the actual law.  That is how they can now call a Ruger 10/22 an """assault weapon""". 😡 

 

In the isp faq they say it's not and the law requires you knowingly violate it so 10/22 is safe for now. That was that whole business of forend vs barrel shroud on one of the other threads. 

[JTHunter]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:53 PM, davel501 said:

In the isp faq they say it's not and the law requires you knowingly violate it so 10/22 is safe for now. That was that whole business of forend vs barrel shroud on one of the other threads. 

 

Will they still say that if the gun is sporting a 25 to 50 round aftermarket magazine?  What about a "pinned on" flash hider?  What about an aftermarket stock that has a "thumb-hole" design?

[davel501]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:24 AM, JTHunter said:

 

Will they still say that if the gun is sporting a 25 to 50 round aftermarket magazine?  What about a "pinned on" flash hider?  What about an aftermarket stock that has a "thumb-hole" design?

 

They did say it was a single piece with the stock like they never heard of a 10/22 takedown soooo... 

 

Only fixed magazines make guns scary though. Detachable are scary on their own but don't change a cuddle gun into an "aSsAuLT  WEaPoN". 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:53 PM, davel501 said:

 

In the isp faq they say it's not and the law requires you knowingly violate it so 10/22 is safe for now. That was that whole business of forend vs barrel shroud on one of the other threads. 

 

 

 

 

Pictures from the PICA Guide.....which hasn't been adopted by JCAR so who knows if it will change before the rules become adopted.

 

VooDoo

[davel501]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:47 AM, Vodoun da Vinci said:

 

 

 

 

Pictures from the PICA Guide.....which hasn't been adopted by JCAR so who knows if it will change before the rules become adopted.

 

VooDoo

 

They act like there's only one model 10/22. Their words make even less sense if you go look at all the models on the ruger site. Unmodified from factory they've got some options that look to fall under pica but they say unmodified factory 10/22s don't. 

 

It's like the rules were written by people that didn't know anything. 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:01 AM, davel501 said:

It's like the rules were written by people that didn't know anything. 

Agreed. All we have at present are the emergency rules some of which are vague at best. In my opinion, the best we can do for now is look at The Pica Guide and read the flow charts and descriptions of what constitutes an """assault weapon""" under the present rules. Basically any semi auto that can accept a large ammunition feeding device and has one (or more) of the """assault weapon""" attachments including (but not limited to)  collapsing/folding/thumb hole stocks, flash hiders, threaded barrels, pistol grips, etc constitutes an """assault weapon""". So. after looking at Ruger's options and available variants of the 10/22 (super thanks for the heads up!) there are obviously some that will fall into the banned category even though they are stock/unmodified.

 

https://ruger.com/products/1022/overview.html

 

The Takedown Lite looks to have a shroud and a threaded barrel. A number of variants have threaded barrels. Pretty sure the Target model has a thumbhole stock. 

 

So, yeah, there is no simple one size fits all answer and until we get JCAR to give us a finished set of rules it looks like we'll have to play this game. I actually had my State senators office forward a list to their contacts at the ISP and got a response (finally) that is vague/incorrect according to the Pica Guide and FAQ's. It's pretty obvious that the ISP Rules and Definitions are flawed and vague. IMO. Bob Morgans people told me to "just register everything you have" to make sure I covered all the bases.

 

It's a mess, but we all know that.

 

VooDoo

Edited December 29, 2023 at 04:27 PM by Vodoun da Vinci

[vito]

My Glock 17 only leaves the house to go to the range, where transporting magazines would be unloaded regardless of capacity. The original 17 round mags will still be used at home in my home defense gun. 

 

I am glad to see the extremely low rate of compliance with the registration requirement and we are almost at the deadline. 

[mauserme]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:24 AM, Vodoun da Vinci said:

Agreed. All we have at present are the emergency rules some of which are vague at best. In my opinion, the best we can do for now is look at The Pica Guide and read the flow charts and descriptions of what constitutes an """assault weapon""" under the present rules. ...

 

VooDoo

 

No!

 

Two posts above this one you stated:

 

On 12/29/2023 at 9:47 AM, Vodoun da Vinci said:

 

...

 

Pictures from the PICA Guide.....which hasn't been adopted by JCAR so who knows if it will change before the rules become adopted.

 

VooDoo

 

Following a guide that has no force of law, a guide that by your own admission is subject to change, a guide that represents nothing more than the anti-gunners fondest dream is NOT the best we can do.  

 

The best we can do is continue to fight this unconstitutional law, and insist they define in understandable terms exactly what it is they have banned in the mean time.  Following law is of course necessary, but capitulation because they passed a law even they can't comprehend is a ridiculous suggestion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:19 PM, mauserme said:

The best we can do is continue to fight this unconstitutional law, and insist they define in understandable terms exactly what it is they have banned in the mean time.  Following law is of course necessary, but capitulation because they passed a law even they can't comprehend is a ridiculous suggestion.

 

 

Well that's me...ridiculous. You make no sense to me....fight an unconstitutional law but don't use their rules to guide us (which can be a felony) when our choices are do not comply, move yer **** out of State, Sell it, or register. You tell me. What's to be done?

 

I'm out. Sincerely, I have made my decisions and hedged my bets. I have figured out my options and need no more from this forum. Good luck, sincerely. 

 

VooDoo

[ddan]

Within the last couple of weeks, you’ve seen the governor and a state’s attorney give guidance on camera or via social media that doesn’t comport with the law or emergency rules. Today, FFL’S got an email from the ISP regarding purchasing banned items, and, of course, this email contradicts itself in three paragraphs and doesn’t comport with the law or emergency rules.

 

Reading and reliance upon the ISP guidance is really not useful ahead of time, because all that matters is what the cop and his department who arrests you, and the prosecutor and judge who try you think the law means as applied to your items. 

 

These are all good exhibits for the vagueness complaints.

 

what a colossal waste of ISP and private resources this thing is.

-dan

Edited December 30, 2023 at 01:21 AM by ddan

[JTHunter]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:12 PM, ddan said:

what a colossal waste of ISP and private resources this thing is.

-dan

 

What else would you expect from "Jabba the Hutt"?