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Applied for CCL and FOID got revoked/CCL denied


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Hey all,

 

I'm new here. Happy Thanksgiving. I applied for a CCL back in July and got an e-mail update the other day that my application status had changed. I logged in and I saw my application was denied and my FOID card revoked. I got a letter in the mail stating as much the other day. I assume the CCL was denied because they ended up revoking my FOID. The letter cites "430 ILCS 65/8 (n) A person who is prohibited from acquiring or possessing firearms or firearm ammunition by any Illinois State statute or by federal law." as the reason, and then follows it up with "PROHIBITED FROM FIREARMS (date) Cook County, IL.

 

On that date I ended up pleading guilty to a court case that was dragged out forever thanks to COVID, but that was for a misdemeanor charge. I have no felonies, and this was the first time I have ever been convicted of anything. From what I've looked up, only felonies can cause FOID revocations, not misdemeanors. Is this correct? It says I need to disclose all of my firearm information and return my FOID. What am I supposed to do here? This seems to be in error. I called the number listed on the website, but it only let me leave a voicemail and said they'd call me back, which they haven't. If this is in error and my FOID gets reinstated, do I also have to start the whole CCL application process all over again? This is a mess, and I don't know what to do/what my options are. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edited by SAIGA-Genesis
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From what I've looked up, only felonies can cause FOID revocations, not misdemeanors. Is this correct?

 

No, this is not correct. I have pasted the relevant information regarding FOID denials/revocations below. As to your question about what steps you should take Im sure someone will comment who has knowledge of that process.

 

 

430 ILCS 65/8) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-8)

Sec. 8. The Department of State Police has authority to deny an application for or to revoke and seize a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued under this Act only if the Department finds that the applicant or the person to whom such card was issued is or was at the time of issuance:

(a) A person under 21 years of age who has been convicted of a misdemeanor other than a traffic offense or adjudged delinquent;

() A person under 21 years of age who does not have the written consent of his parent or guardian to acquire and possess firearms and firearm ammunition, or whose parent or guardian has revoked such written consent, or where such parent or guardian does not qualify to have a Firearm Owner's Identification Card;

© A person convicted of a felony under the laws of this or any other jurisdiction;

(d) A person addicted to narcotics;

(e) A person who has been a patient of a mental institution within the past 5 years or has been adjudicated as a mental defective;

(f) A person whose mental condition is of such a nature that it poses a clear and present danger to the applicant, any other person or persons or the community;

For the purposes of this Section, "mental condition" means a state of mind manifested by violent, suicidal, threatening or assaultive behavior.

(g) A person who is intellectually disabled;

(h) A person who intentionally makes a false statement in the Firearm Owner's Identification Card application;

(i) An alien who is unlawfully present in the United States under the laws of the United States;

(i-5) An alien who has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa (as that term is defined in Section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26))), except that this subsection (i-5) does not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa if that alien is:

(1) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting

or sporting purposes;

(2) an official representative of a foreign

government who is:

(A) accredited to the United States Government or

the Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or

()en route to or from another country to which

that alien is accredited;

(3) an official of a foreign government or

distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State;

(4) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly

foreign government entering the United States on official business; or

(5) one who has received a waiver from the Attorney

General of the United States pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(3);

(j) (Blank);

(k) A person who has been convicted within the past 5 years of battery, assault, aggravated assault, violation of an order of protection, or a substantially similar offense in another jurisdiction, in which a firearm was used or possessed;

(l) A person who has been convicted of domestic battery, aggravated domestic battery, or a substantially similar offense in another jurisdiction committed before, on or after January 1, 2012 (the effective date of Public Act 97-158). If the applicant or person who has been previously issued a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act knowingly and intelligently waives the right to have an offense described in this paragraph (l) tried by a jury, and by guilty plea or otherwise, results in a conviction for an offense in which a domestic relationship is not a required element of the offense but in which a determination of the applicability of 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(9) is made under Section 112A-11.1 of the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1963, an entry by the court of a judgment of conviction for that offense shall be grounds for denying an application for and for revoking and seizing a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued to the person under this Act;

(m) (Blank);

(n) A person who is prohibited from acquiring or possessing firearms or firearm ammunition by any Illinois State statute or by federal law;

(o) A minor subject to a petition filed under Section 5-520 of the Juvenile Court Act of 1987 alleging that the minor is a delinquent minor for the commission of an offense that if committed by an adult would be a felony;

(p) An adult who had been adjudicated a delinquent minor under the Juvenile Court Act of 1987 for the commission of an offense that if committed by an adult would be a felony; or

(q) A person who is not a resident of the State of Illinois, except as provided in subsection (a-10) of Section 4.

(Source: P.A. 96-701, eff. 1-1-10; 97-158, eff. 1-1-12; 97-227, eff. 1-1-12; 97-813, eff. 7-13-12; 97-1131, eff. 1-1-13.)

Edited by jrlivin2
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Certain misdemeanors (example: domestic battery or order of protection violations, drug paraphernalia) will result in a FOID/CCL revocation. I suggest that you get in touch with MollyB for additional insight about your options.
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Was there anything like supervision involved?

Have you read the final court document (never been there so not sure what you get on a guilty plea)?

 

We have had reports on the board where an agreement to give up firearms is automatically included in traffic supervision document fine print and unless its caught and removed people were getting cards revoked.

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=71770

 

IANAL. Just throwing this out there. Perhaps it is similar. Doesnt help being in Cook Co. Certainly get in touch with Molly.

Edited by InterestedBystander
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Was there anything like supervision involved?

Have you read the final court document (never been there so not sure what you get on a guilty plea)?

We have had reports on the board where an agreement to give up firearms is automatically included in traffic supervision document fine print and unless its caught and removed people were getting cards revoked.

IANAL. Just throwing this out there. Perhaps it is similar. Certainly get in touch with Molly.

Thanks for the heads up. There was supervision, and I just looked now. Refrain from possessing firearms is checked. I specifically asked my lawyer about this, but it's my fault for also not looking close enough. Well that's great.

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Take a look at the thread I added on Edit.

 

I didnt review the whole thing but maybe theres something to be done (e.g. judge amending conditions then an appeal to CCLRB?) although probably more legal fees if so.

 

Again, Molly is a great resource and will provide best path to go.

Edited by InterestedBystander
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Take a look at the thread I added on Edit.

I didnt review the whole thing but maybe theres something to be done (e.g. judge amending conditions then an appeal to CCLRB?) although probably more legal fees if so.

Again, Molly is a great resource and will provide best path to go.

Thanks for that. That thread helped a lot. I sent Molly a message as well and will talk to my lawyer tomorrow about getting that piece of the agreement reversed, but hope seems minimal it looks like. Now I guess I just wait for people to critique my driving. Edited by SAIGA-Genesis
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Save this for the distant future & remember.After everyone poopoo's me.You will never be issued a foid card in the state of Illinois.Just trying to save you a bunch of money Also.........there is a scam going on where you go through this big evaluation by a qualified (?) doctor.Give him say,$1000.00.He tells you "You will have your foid in 90 days".Is that 90 days,months or years ?. The system is rigged (or broken).Illinois has a special club,and your not in it. Me neither

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Save this for the distant future & remember.After everyone poopoo's me.You will never be issued a foid card in the state of Illinois.Just trying to save you a bunch of money Also.........there is a scam going on where you go through this big evaluation by a qualified (?) doctor.Give him say,$1000.00.He tells you "You will have your foid in 90 days".Is that 90 days,months or years ?. The system is rigged (or broken).Illinois has a special club,and your not in it. Me neither

Once again, it's unfortunate it hasn't worked out as well for you as it has for others.

 

Hang in there SAIGA-Genesis. Cynicism is never the answer.

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It was none of those. It was a traffic-related misdemeanor.

 

I know it's a personal issue but what kind of traffic related issue....if you don't mind explaining. If you DO mind just say so and not big deal, I didn't mean to pry. I'm just kind of nervous as to what kind of trivial traffic related nonsense can get my license yanked.

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It was none of those. It was a traffic-related misdemeanor.

 

I know it's a personal issue but what kind of traffic related issue....if you don't mind explaining. If you DO mind just say so and not big deal, I didn't mean to pry. I'm just kind of nervous as to what kind of trivial traffic related nonsense can get my license yanked.

 

 

I'm curious as well. It seems absurd that a traffic ticket can cause you to lose your gun rights (but not surprised in this state).

I'd like to know the details.

Edited by Bitter Clinger
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I'm curious as well. It seems absurd that a traffic ticket can cause you to lose your gun rights (but not surprised in this state).

I'd like to know the details.

 

 

The only thing I can think of is something like 30+ mph over the limit on the highway, road rage, driving to endanger or stuff like that.... something more dangerous than mild speeding. Driving stuff isn't really ever a felony but there is a huge spectrum of offenses ranging from running a red light vs driving 120 mph without a license, insurance or registration. Everything would still be a misdemeanor.

 

Everything I do in life is all catered to being a decent human being but it's always in the back of my mind 24/7 "don't wanna get in trouble and lose my 2A rights". We truly are held to a higher standard and rightfully so but I know there are some sneaky issues that will get your FOID/CCL yanked.

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The funny thing is that it's not the violation itself that has gotten me to lose my 2A rights. It's a tiny line in the plea deal agreement that mandates 1-year of supervision. In it, I unknowingly agreed to give up my 2A rights while under supervision. I socially asked my lawyer about that, but I also didn't read it closely enough myself. There are a bunch of lines on the agreement in large and smaller font sizes, and they're either checkmated or not. This line was the smallest line and checkmarked.

 

He assured me that my 2A rights could not be affected as this was a traffic related misdemeanor, which is technically right. But as part of these plea deals, Cook County seems to automatically check that line...

Edited by SAIGA-Genesis
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So you applied for the CCL in July right?

When did you plead guilty to the traffic infraction?

I’m assuming a while before that for it to “after the fact” effect your already in hand FOID.

And I know it’s not what you or anyone else wants, but since you did sign the agreement and you state it is for 1 year, how much more time is it before you can just get the court to issue a reinstate document and get the cards back.

Just asking, not saying a traffic infraction should make anyone lose a right. But you are almost half way past the year now if you applied in July and the infraction was earlier.

 

Just food for thought.

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The infraction was earlier, but the plea happened at the end of September. So the supervision goes for a year after then. I applied for the CCL in July, but they apparently didn't look at the application until last week, which got them to see that flag from Cook County that I'm not supposed to have firearms which caused them to also revoke my existing FOID.

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The infraction was earlier, but the plea happened at the end of September. So the supervision goes for a year after then. I applied for the CCL in July, but they apparently didn't look at the application until last week, which got them to see that flag from Cook County that I'm not supposed to have firearms which caused them to also revoke my existing FOID.

Is that condition amendable by the judge? I bet Cook catches a lot of people with that added hidden gem which no doubt makes Dart happy
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The infraction was earlier, but the plea happened at the end of September. So the supervision goes for a year after then. I applied for the CCL in July, but they apparently didn't look at the application until last week, which got them to see that flag from Cook County that I'm not supposed to have firearms which caused them to also revoke my existing FOID.

Is that condition amendable by the judge? I bet Cook catches a lot of people with that added hidden gem which no doubt makes Dart happy

According to Molly B. and that previously linked thread, it is. I'm talking to my lawyer about it now.

Edited by SAIGA-Genesis
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The infraction was earlier, but the plea happened at the end of September. So the supervision goes for a year after then. I applied for the CCL in July, but they apparently didn't look at the application until last week, which got them to see that flag from Cook County that I'm not supposed to have firearms which caused them to also revoke my existing FOID.

Is that condition amendable by the judge? I bet Cook catches a lot of people with that added hidden gem which no doubt makes Dart happy

According to Molly B. and that previously linked thread, it is. I'm talking to my lawyer about it now.

Good to know theres still hope. Be sure to let us know how it goes. I recently warned someone I know who is in DuPage about checking terms when he told me he was going to traffic supervision. Edited by InterestedBystander
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I'm not sure what WolfCreek was saying the above.. but I will chime in on this.

back in 2008 I was convicted of a misdemeanor (I was 18 at the time), in the end I did get it expunged, how far back ISP can and will trace, this I am not sure. I was convicted for a non-violent crime, but it was me being stupid with a friend, accidentally shot out a window with a BB gun, friend's neighbors weren't happy.

 

Also, then back in 2012 I voluntarily admitted myself to the hospital due to a bad breakup, but because of this my existing FOID at the time got revoked and I had to turn in my firearm and ammo to my local PD.

later on in 2015 I believe, I tried to reapply for a FOID and of course was denied. Tried again in 2019 but was denied due to not seeing a medical examiner. I later tried again after doing so, which yes I paid him for an evaluation and a series of tests.

I resubmitted my appeal to ISP right after Christmas '19, then COVID hit. I got my FOID back to me I think it was in beginning-June '20. I then took a CCL class and submitted with prints end-July '20. I got my CCL mid-November '20.

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  • 1 month later...

Quick update for everyone here. I just got off of zoom court where my attorney submitted a motion to get this rescinded. Apparently it was a "clerical error" since there wasn't a firearm at all involved in what happened, and the ASA also said that box is automatically check-marked during this Covid period, for some reason. They're going to re-submit a new plea agreement with that removed. Should have it cleared up with them by the 20th, and then it's off to appeal it to the ISP.

Edited by SAIGA-Genesis
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So since it was a clerical error on the state's part, will the state pay your attorney's fees?

 

I know, right? They just clerically took away my 2nd amendment rights in error. I don't know what my lawyer will do. He also felt stupid a bit because I specifically asked him about this affecting my gun rights in any way, to which he said no. I'm just hoping I only have to appeal the FOID revocation and the CCL denial without having to re-apply for both.

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So since it was a clerical error on the state's part, will the state pay your attorney's fees?

 

I know, right? They just clerically took away my 2nd amendment rights in error. I don't know what my lawyer will do. He also felt stupid a bit because I specifically asked him about this affecting my gun rights in any way, to which he said no. I'm just hoping I only have to appeal the FOID revocation and the CCL denial without having to re-apply for both.

 

 

 

You should not have to reapply for either one.

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So since it was a clerical error on the state's part, will the state pay your attorney's fees?

 

I know, right? They just clerically took away my 2nd amendment rights in error. I don't know what my lawyer will do. He also felt stupid a bit because I specifically asked him about this affecting my gun rights in any way, to which he said no. I'm just hoping I only have to appeal the FOID revocation and the CCL denial without having to re-apply for both.

 

 

 

You should not have to reapply for either one.

 

 

Awesome. Thanks, Molly. Do you happen to know how long appeals take to process?

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  • 1 month later...

Another update on this. Everything was submitted to the state a little over a week ago. We ended up using this form for the appeal(s): https://isp.illinois.gov/docs/FirearmsSafety/Forms/2-707%2011-20%20Request%20FOID%20Investigation%20Relief%20Reinstatement%20Firearms%20Rights%20Form.pdf

 

I checked the first and third boxes. We also sent in certified court documents correcting the sentencing error that Cook County admitted to. I'm hoping the third box also implies that they will appeal by CCL denial at the same time as the FOID, but I kind of doubt it.

 

I guess it's just a waiting game at this point. I think I'm going to try to get a state senator involved as well, since I'm pretty miffed about losing my gun rights for a rather extended period of time due to an admitted "clerical error".

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  • 5 weeks later...

Does anyone know how long it tends to take for the status in your ISP account to be updated once they receive your appeal? It's been a bit over a month, and I've seen others talk about how it gets updated to "under review" once they get ahold of it, but it still just saying FOID "revoked and CCL "denied". It'd be nice if there was a way to know whether they received it or not.

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