marathonrunner Posted March 11, 2015 at 06:36 PM Author Posted March 11, 2015 at 06:36 PM BigDeesul are you serious?..
marathonrunner Posted March 11, 2015 at 07:22 PM Author Posted March 11, 2015 at 07:22 PM · Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:44 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:44 PM - No reason given Bigdeesul, do you have a FCCL?
sirflyguy Posted March 11, 2015 at 07:25 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 07:25 PM The 4 folks in the small class I held this past weekend would definitely concur with the statements made in the first post. Taking people with little to no (or no recent) handgun experience, coaching them a bit on the fundamentals, and watching them shoot nice little groups (and 299-300 scores on the IL CCL Live Fire Qual) makes me proud to be a firearms instructor.Yep. I had a lady a year or two ago who was scared to death of guns (a customer of my wife's at our salon). Took my NRA Basic Pistol class with great anxiety. By the end of the day, she was absolutely ecstatic. She felt like she had the KSA needed, and she did a great job. She actually cried because she was so happy. Those are great days.
Elmer Fudd Posted March 11, 2015 at 07:39 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 07:39 PM · Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Bigdeesul, do you have a FCCL?You are asking a question that you know the answer to.....he is listed on the ISP site as an instructor....doesn't that tell you something?
gstrom99 Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:02 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:02 PM · Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Duck! The pies are flying!
marathonrunner Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:06 PM Author Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:06 PM · Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Elmer fudd I am just answering and addressing a questionnthat has been asked of me and whike it may seem a philosophical one thst is the age old question. Sometimes the answer is not so obvious. Does FCCL stand for CCL? Oh man Sorry Bigdeesul. I thought you were being smart with me but ok now I get it, "FCCL" meanes firearm instructor so to answer that of course not
BIGDEESUL Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:17 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:17 PM · Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:44 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:44 PM - No reason given Bigdeesul, do you have a FCCL? Actually yes, I do. I know it's hard to tell, because of the obtuse issues I'm concerned about, and the even more idiotic comments I make. It's hard for anyone to guess that I've completed the training requirement, because my utter lack of knowledge and extreme naivety make it impossible to believe that I've ever even seen a gun, let alone completed a course outlining safety and the legal use of one in a defensive capacity. Despite all that, yes.
Elmer Fudd Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:18 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:18 PM · Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, March 11, 2015 at 08:37 PM - No reason given Elmer fudd I am just answering and addressing a questionnthat has been asked of me and whike it may seem a philosophical one thst is the age old question. Sometimes the answer is not so obvious. Does FCCL stand for CCL? Oh man Sorry Bigdeesul. I thought you were being smart with me but ok now I get it, "FCCL" meanes firearm instructor so to answer that of course notAsking the question of an individual that is an FCCL instructor means that you are asking a question that you already know the answer to. If the answer isn't obvious than you might want to go back and re-read the FCCA. The question is by no means philosophical, rather its axiomatic....you knew the answer before you asked the question. The proper nomenclature for the statue which is 430 ILCS 66/) Firearm Concealed Carry Act. Per the statute "License" means a license issued by the Department of State Police to carry a concealed handgun. The definition of Certified Firearms instructor can be found at 430 ILCS 66/80. It isn't all that difficult to look that information up.
mauserme Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:40 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:40 PM Posts that interfere with useful advice have been removed.
marathonrunner Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:57 PM Author Posted March 11, 2015 at 08:57 PM If fireRms instuctures could lower orice by making it like 30 dollars for two hours it would attract kore leople
Rockdiver Posted March 11, 2015 at 09:12 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 09:12 PM You get what you pay for.
AJR Posted March 11, 2015 at 10:09 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 10:09 PM If fireRms instuctures could lower orice by making it like 30 dollars for two hours it would attract kore leople You have several firearms and have spent several hundred modify them, but have no money to learn how to use them?I am not even sure if you should have opened this topic if you were going to follow it with this statement. At this point, all I can say is IBTL.
marathonrunner Posted March 11, 2015 at 11:23 PM Author Posted March 11, 2015 at 11:23 PM Guys I pay 85 dollars a month for lifetime firness and I can go unlimited. Private instructuon for oistol I hate tyl ing on smart ohone it sucks but private instruction is exoensive and can add uo quickly. Why not have a k ooooooi nthly membershio where ine c an come and get unlimited help? Private instructiin is oreferred of course
Glock21 Posted March 11, 2015 at 11:31 PM Posted March 11, 2015 at 11:31 PM Guys I pay 85 dollars a month for lifetime firness and I can go unlimited. Private instructuon for oistol I hate tyl ing on smart ohone it sucks but private instruction is exoensive and can add uo quickly. Why not have a k ooooooi nthly membershio where ine c an come and get unlimited help? Private instructiin is oreferred of course You have any idea what some of us have invested in becoming Instructors? I've spent 20-years of my life and spent far more than a college education would have been, and you want me to give private instruction in teaching you how to save your life for less than the price of piano lessons? ...try getting your plumbing fixed for that hourly rate.
JMontgomery Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:18 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:18 AM marathonrunner: You're a pretty funny guy. Do you know what top tier firearm training costs? I do. Cause I've been looking it over. Mas Ayoob's MAG-40 goes for about $600-800 for 40 hours of what I'm told is the best training out there overall. Chris Costa is about $600... Plus he wants you to bring almost 2000 rounds to shoot over 3 days. Farnam wants about $600 for a two day course. Most of the best instructors have been to one or all of the above and plenty of others. And you want them to give you private training for a little over McDonalds wages? Good luck. You get what you pay for. I paid close to $700 between tuition, ammo, etc. for my wife and me to attend GSL Defense's class in late 2013. Best money I ever spent for the best training I've ever had to date. I'm SOOOOOOO glad I didn't go cheap. I've heard horror stories from friends at GSL monthly meetings. Not all instructors are the same. Mr. Marathon, classes are like pizza. You can have 'em cheap, fast, or good. Generally, you can have only two at the most. If you find someone who can do all three, I bet you're getting fooled somewhere.
Draal Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:21 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:21 AM I say sell a gun or two, scrounge/save whenever you can within a set time frame. Pay for the best you can get. If you are serious about the goal, you can do it. I am a poor and reasonably humble artist and I've saved when I could, sold some stuff and made enough to get my 16 hrs. training and digital prints, etc. I repeated my frugal methods when I bought my Shield to replace my beautiful but bulky K frame. I am now saving up for an AR pistol kit.... I will there. If I can attain these goals, surely you can save up for one on one lessons from a good instructor. Stop looking for the easy way out and do it right.
JMontgomery Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:21 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:21 AM You were on the right track with your first post in this thread. Someone once mentioned (I forget where I heard it): You can't buy skills in a bubble pack on a shelf at Gander Mountain. Expecting $10/hour training is like expecting to find 50 cent boxes of 22s. It just ain't happening.
Draal Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:31 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:31 AM This thread is going nowhere as predicted. Either the OP is extremely naive or we're being played into infinity. I'm done.
TRJ Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:35 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:35 AM From a different viewpoint, I'd like you to drive to my house and wash my windows. I hear you're among the finest window washers in Northern Illinois. I have 33 windows on my house, half are second story. I estimate the job to be about two hours. I'll pay you $1 per window. Does that sound fair?
Glock21 Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:41 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 12:41 AM As an aside... When I train people, I consider it to be a "low-grade" marriage of sorts. Meaning, my students are a part of my life for the rest of my life. Any of them get involved in a shooting that finds them in court, I will be subpoenaed. It may happen 20-years from now, and the events in question may have zero to do with my curriculum, but I'll be required to appear and answer for what and why I taught the defendant what I did. Now, if you want me to pay the long-term costs, then you need to pay the short-term costs. I need to make a real living. That is in the student's best interest. It allows me the way and means to continue learning in order to have the most up-to-date info for them. And, it allows me to focus entirely on teaching which makes me a better, more experienced trainer, and eventual witness for the defense. Piano teachers put in lots of time and effort into their skills - but, when a bad piano player is produced, people usually don't die or go to jail. This is serious business, so I take it seriously. And I only want students who do, too. People who complain about the tuition price either don't understand what they are buying, or are the types who will complain about anything and everything. The former I can work with, the latter need never call me.
Kylar Stern Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:31 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:31 AM I am very happy this topic came up because, my goal this year is to finally put down my long range bolt action rifle and to become more proficient in my handgun. I have been a member at ASC for almost 3 years now and been to the pistol bays at least a half a dozen times. I can hit a 12 inch AR500 steel gong with my 223AI at 600 yards with no problems, but the handgun sits in the safe collecting dust. I do not mind paying a premium price for handgun classes. How do I find the right firearms instructor? In my opinion, choosing a good firearms instructor is critical to getting effective and accurate training. Full disclosure, I always avoided the handgun because I do not shot it well.
thobart Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:55 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:55 AM Than go to lifetime fitness for your firearms training and you are done
Glock21 Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:56 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:56 AM I am very happy this topic came up because, my goal this year is to finally put down my long range bolt action rifle and to become more proficient in my handgun. I have been a member at ASC for almost 3 years now and been to the pistol bays at least a half a dozen times. I can hit a 12 inch AR500 steel gong with my 223AI at 600 yards with no problems, but the handgun sits in the safe collecting dust. I do not mind paying a premium price for handgun classes. How do I find the right firearms instructor? In my opinion, choosing a good firearms instructor is critical to getting effective and accurate training. Full disclosure, I always avoided the handgun because I do not shot it well.There are LOTS of good Instructors in the Midwest. The first question I would ask you is: What is your pistol for? What are you planning on doing with it - What do you want to use it for?
Glock21 Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:57 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:57 AM Than go to lifetime fitness for your firearms training and you are done Ok. That made me giggle. Well played, sir.
Rockdiver Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:57 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:57 AM If all of the combined life experience from the posters here has not led to anyone but a few figuring this guy out, I'm severely disappointed.
domin8 Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:59 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 01:59 AM The cheapest top quality instruction I ever received was $50 for 4 hours. The instructor works at Top Sight. The course I took was Utah Concealed Carry. Did it make me a better marksman? Nope.
Glock21 Posted March 12, 2015 at 02:00 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 02:00 AM If all of the combined life experience from the posters here has not led to anyone but a few figuring this guy out, I'm severely disappointed. ...speaking of life experience, I learned around 1998 that my posts on the internet should rarely be for the benefit of the person I appear to be speaking to, but for the others reading. ;-)
Kylar Stern Posted March 12, 2015 at 02:01 AM Posted March 12, 2015 at 02:01 AM I am very happy this topic came up because, my goal this year is to finally put down my long range bolt action rifle and to become more proficient in my handgun. I have been a member at ASC for almost 3 years now and been to the pistol bays at least a half a dozen times. I can hit a 12 inch AR500 steel gong with my 223AI at 600 yards with no problems, but the handgun sits in the safe collecting dust. I do not mind paying a premium price for handgun classes. How do I find the right firearms instructor? In my opinion, choosing a good firearms instructor is critical to getting effective and accurate training. Full disclosure, I always avoided the handgun because I do not shot it well.There are LOTS of good Instructors in the Midwest.The first question I would ask you is: What is your pistol for?What are you planning on doing with it - What do you want to use it for?Thanks for the reply, I will give these questions some serious thought.
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