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IL CCW Trainer Curriculum Questions


mjw45

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I would like to see, at this moment in time, in black and white on the ISP website that Basic Pistol and other proposed courses will count for the first eight hours. Folks in our area are scared to do anything until they know to sure. People want to be pro-active at this time but are standing fast!

 

Thnx - Jerry

Str8Shot

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When instructors and curriculum are approved and we begin teaching, will NRA basic pistol taught as the first 8 hours have to be taught by a certified IL ccw instructor?

 

Why would it if you can bank 8 hours of NRA Basic Pistol. Any NRA pistol instructor should be fine for the first 8 hours then.

I would agree, but this is Illannoy and we have Incompetent Stupid People making the rules

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When instructors and curriculum are approved and we begin teaching, will NRA basic pistol taught as the first 8 hours have to be taught by a certified IL ccw instructor?

 

Why would it if you can bank 8 hours of NRA Basic Pistol. Any NRA pistol instructor should be fine for the first 8 hours then.

The logical side of me agrees with you. The side that trusts nothing this state government does is skeptical that the state government will be logical. :)

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When instructors and curriculum are approved and we begin teaching, will NRA basic pistol taught as the first 8 hours have to be taught by a certified IL ccw instructor?

 

Why would it if you can bank 8 hours of NRA Basic Pistol. Any NRA pistol instructor should be fine for the first 8 hours then.

I would agree, but this is Illannoy and we have Incompetent Stupid People making the rules

Regarding your answer: great minds think alike...

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Ok taking a closer look, how do we merge the ISP requirements 1-3 with NRA Basic Pistol?

 

NRA Basic Pistol-

Lesson I (2hr) Pistol Knowledge and Safe Gun Handling

Lesson II (2hr) Ammunition and Fundamental of Pistol shooting

Lesson III (2hr) Firing the First Shots

Lesson IV (1hr) Scoring Targets and Selecting and maintaining a Pistol

Lesson V (1hr) Continued Opportuniites for Skill Development

 

ISP-

1. Firearm safety; Minimum 2 hours Classroom

______ a. 4 basic fi rearm handling safety rules

______ b. Home storage

______ c. Vehicle storage

______ d. Public Storage

2. Basic principles of marksmanship; Minimum 3 hours Classroom/Range

______ a. Stance

______ b. Grip

______ c. Sight Alignment

______ d. Sight Picture

______ e. Trigger Control

3. Care, cleaning, loading, and unloading of a concealable fi

rearm; Minimum 3 hours Classroom

______ a. Gun identifi cation: revolver, semi-automatic, misc.

______ b. Ammunition identifi cation and selection

______ c. Safety and cleaning protocols

______ d. Cleaning equipment

______ e. Loading and unloading

 

 

I can't see a way to make NRA basic pistol compatible with the ISP time requirements and stay true to the actual NRA curriculum without making the class 10 hours long.

 

Where in the ISP program can I give the exam, talk about pistol selection, scoring targets etc. and stay true to the NRA class outline unless I add more time?

 

What about basics of the class, like intro and facilities policies, where in the ISP time limit/section do I put these?

 

I really don't like the idea of signing a document under the penalty of perjury with questions like these hanging over me.

 

I'm starting to think I will get my instructor fingerprint/submission done next week and hang back a little on curriculum.

 

Matt

 

You guys are looking at this all too closely...

 

If you teach Basic Pistol, the ISP says the student has satisfied #1 - #3 on their training outline, period.

 

There is no reason to try to force the 2 classes to match. If you teach BP, the student has satisfied #1 - #3. If you choose to make your own curriculum for the first 8 hrs, the ISP has provided you a class outline.

 

There is absolutely NO need to try to smash the 2 different options together into one.

 

It seems like the blinders are on and some are thinking that NRA Basic Pistol is the only way to cover the first 8 hrs when that is simply not the case.

 

Either teach Basic Pistol and allow your students to then "grandfather" in with 8 prior hrs, or use the ISP's outline to make your own class. Two distinct separate options for you to chose.

 

Where exactly has the ISP said that NRA Basic Pistol satisfies 1-3 on the 16 hour training requirements? I have not seen it in writing anywhere, except tossed about on this forum to and fro. While I do respect Todd's insider knowledge, the only thing we have in writing (SO FAR) is that the NRA Basic Pistol course does NOT exactly match what the ISP is asking for.

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Ok taking a closer look, how do we merge the ISP requirements 1-3 with NRA Basic Pistol?

 

NRA Basic Pistol-

Lesson I (2hr) Pistol Knowledge and Safe Gun Handling

Lesson II (2hr) Ammunition and Fundamental of Pistol shooting

Lesson III (2hr) Firing the First Shots

Lesson IV (1hr) Scoring Targets and Selecting and maintaining a Pistol

Lesson V (1hr) Continued Opportuniites for Skill Development

 

ISP-

1. Firearm safety; Minimum 2 hours Classroom

______ a. 4 basic fi rearm handling safety rules

______ b. Home storage

______ c. Vehicle storage

______ d. Public Storage

2. Basic principles of marksmanship; Minimum 3 hours Classroom/Range

______ a. Stance

______ b. Grip

______ c. Sight Alignment

______ d. Sight Picture

______ e. Trigger Control

3. Care, cleaning, loading, and unloading of a concealable fi

rearm; Minimum 3 hours Classroom

______ a. Gun identifi cation: revolver, semi-automatic, misc.

______ b. Ammunition identifi cation and selection

______ c. Safety and cleaning protocols

______ d. Cleaning equipment

______ e. Loading and unloading

 

 

I can't see a way to make NRA basic pistol compatible with the ISP time requirements and stay true to the actual NRA curriculum without making the class 10 hours long.

 

Where in the ISP program can I give the exam, talk about pistol selection, scoring targets etc. and stay true to the NRA class outline unless I add more time?

 

What about basics of the class, like intro and facilities policies, where in the ISP time limit/section do I put these?

 

I really don't like the idea of signing a document under the penalty of perjury with questions like these hanging over me.

 

I'm starting to think I will get my instructor fingerprint/submission done next week and hang back a little on curriculum.

 

Matt

 

You guys are looking at this all too closely...

 

If you teach Basic Pistol, the ISP says the student has satisfied #1 - #3 on their training outline, period.

 

There is no reason to try to force the 2 classes to match. If you teach BP, the student has satisfied #1 - #3. If you choose to make your own curriculum for the first 8 hrs, the ISP has provided you a class outline.

 

There is absolutely NO need to try to smash the 2 different options together into one.

 

It seems like the blinders are on and some are thinking that NRA Basic Pistol is the only way to cover the first 8 hrs when that is simply not the case.

 

Either teach Basic Pistol and allow your students to then "grandfather" in with 8 prior hrs, or use the ISP's outline to make your own class. Two distinct separate options for you to chose.

 

Where exactly has the ISP said that NRA Basic Pistol satisfies 1-3 on the 16 hour training requirements? I have not seen it in writing anywhere, except tossed about on this forum to and fro. While I do respect Todd's insider knowledge, the only thing we have in writing (SO FAR) is that the NRA Basic Pistol course does NOT exactly match what the ISP is asking for.

 

Good point. My post was mis worded. I tend to do that when replying from my phone. I should have said "if the ISP approves Basic Pistol". I type on my phone much skier than I think sometimes...

 

Anyway, I still think the point I was making is valid. If the ISP/FCCA allows grandfathering, it is not up to the instructors to second guess..

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Also besides BP, does the 4 hours of Utah count. I thought it was mentioned at the Town Hall last week in Elmhurst it would count for 4 hours. We should give those who have it, credit for 4 hours and teaching 12 if instructors so choose.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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Also besides BP, does the 4 hours of Utah count. I thought it was mentioned at the Town Hall last week in Elmhurst it would count for 4 hours. We should give those who have it, credit for 4 hours and teaching 12 if instructors so choose.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Sure, but for which 4 hrs?

What is covered in the Utah class that is listed on the curriculum affidavit?

(I do not have a Utah permit, so I don't know what was covered in that class)

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Also besides BP, does the 4 hours of Utah count. I thought it was mentioned at the Town Hall last week in Elmhurst it would count for 4 hours. We should give those who have it, credit for 4 hours and teaching 12 if instructors so choose.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Sure, but for which 4 hrs?

What is covered in the Utah class that is listed on the curriculum affidavit?

(I do not have a Utah permit, so I don't know what was covered in that class)

 

The first part of Utah is safety, fundamentals, parts and operation, single vs. double action, etc. Much of sections 1 to 3 really.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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Also besides BP, does the 4 hours of Utah count. I thought it was mentioned at the Town Hall last week in Elmhurst it would count for 4 hours. We should give those who have it, credit for 4 hours and teaching 12 if instructors so choose.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Sure, but for which 4 hrs?

What is covered in the Utah class that is listed on the curriculum affidavit?

(I do not have a Utah permit, so I don't know what was covered in that class)

 

The first part of Utah is safety, fundamentals, parts and operation, single vs. double action, etc. Much of sections 1 to 3 really.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Ok, however the curriculum affidavit you are certifying 8/16 hr or 3 hr refresher. There is no 12 hr course.

The more we look the harder they made it for us.

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Ok, however the curriculum affidavit you are certifying 8/16 hr or 3 hr refresher. There is no 12 hr course.

The more we look the harder they made it for us.

 

I know..that's why I was surprised when I had seen they specifically list the "8/16" listed on the ISP website. I guess we'll see.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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Ok, however the curriculum affidavit you are certifying 8/16 hr or 3 hr refresher. There is no 12 hr course.

The more we look the harder they made it for us.

 

I know..that's why I was surprised when I had seen they specifically list the "8/16" listed on the ISP website. I guess we'll see.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

is it just me or did the ISP forget to 'proof read' the stuff

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Ok, however the curriculum affidavit you are certifying 8/16 hr or 3 hr refresher. There is no 12 hr course.

The more we look the harder they made it for us.

 

I know..that's why I was surprised when I had seen they specifically list the "8/16" listed on the ISP website. I guess we'll see.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

is it just me or did the ISP forget to 'proof read' the stuff

It isn't just you.

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I think you guys are worried about Utah course. I am not going to accept it. If it is not 8 hours then I won't accept it

You may not have a choice.

If ISP says it's good for X number of hours of previous training, it has to be good.

You won't have to accept those people as students, but there are a lot of people in IL with Utah permits.

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The ISP released outlines for 16 hours and 8 hours... If they allow Utah for 4 hours there will be a giant cluster... Specific 12 hour class only for people who already have Utah permits?

 

They should just allow 8 And make it simpler, not more complicated.

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If they allow 4 hours for Utah, and 4 hours for Florida, wouldn't that be the 8 hours banked? Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

I've got my DD214 so I'm not worried about other training being banked.

 

Eugene

Yes, it would be allowed.

You would probably need paperwork from those instructors/classes certifying as to the length of them.

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Question for the ISP:

 

What provision, if any, is being made for out of state permit applicants to get their prints done? Will out of state applicants, without a trip to IL and a Live Scan vendor, be required to wait the additional 30 days for approval using paper prints or will paper prints, perhaps done by a law enforcement agency located near to the applicants home, be adequate to prevent undue delay?

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My father teaches NRA Basic Pistol course, and Personal Protection Inside the Home. Both these courses combined cover all the curriculum requirements for IL CCW, and total roughly 17 hours of class time. Is this acceptable?

 

Not as it stands right now.

 

Have you looked at the Concealed Carry License Curriculum Approval Form?

 

 

The second 8 hours is completely IL specific with time restrictions, no relation to any other currently available class.

 

Todd will have more info for us in the future.

 

Matt

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