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Two Weeks Left, Whats to worry?

DHan

By DHan
in Illinois Politics

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richp Member

richp

Posted
Posted

Hi,

 

I think the thing to worry about is the group of legislators in both houses who are not in touch with the legal (both judicial and Constitutional) realities here, and will cave to Madigan and Cullerton's upcoming political strategy instead.

 

And that strategy will be to get up to a day or two before the deadline, put out a bill that is similar to the trash that was floated last week, and say, "Folks, there's no time to do anything else. If we don't pass this bill, it'll be what those gun nuts are calling 'Constitutional Carry'. We'll have no regulation at all on firearms anywhere in the state. You've got to vote for this bill or we'll have lawlessness from north to south, east to west."

 

This is not a rational approach of course. Indiana, Wisconsin, and Missouri -- three major bordering states -- all have carry and no such thing occurs. But we have so many members of the General Assembly who either are in the pocket of The Machine or who simply can't think for themselves, that they'll get behind whatever last minute abomination is put in front of them.

 

I'm not a pessimist though. Thank goodness we've got Todd, Molly, and others who are working on our side to see that doesn't happen.

 

FWIW.

 

Rich Phillips

xd9subcompact Member

xd9subcompact

Posted
Posted
I don't get this. Shortly after the big win on the Moore/Shepard case in the appeals court, it was much touted that we had the winning hand and the pressure was all on the anti-gunners to see it our way, since all we needed to do was sit on our hands and wait till the 9th of June. Now I see more and more predictions of doom if we don't give in to the other side. Makes no sense to me.
richp Member

richp

Posted
Posted

Hi XD9,

 

Our exhuberance was justified -- a decision like that was a long time coming.

 

But we're up against politicians who are not only exceedingly skillful in using the system to their own ends, but also totally without scruples when it comes to spending public money to fend off lawsuit after lawsuit. Stall, stall, stall, and hope that eventually we will run out of money or motivation, or that they'll get a court decision that puts the issue in a posture they can live with.

 

(I give as my example the recent New York case on "shall issue". By stonewalling a stringent may issue law and getting the Supreme Court to decline to take an appeal, they essentially get what they wanted all along -- the means to suppress a fundamental right under the cover of law.)

 

The issue of a patchwork of local laws is a very real one for us, but think about it -- it may actually be the next best thing for them. By extensively localizing a wide variety of restrictions, antis get an awful lot of what they want. Plus, the prospect of scattered litigation that spreads us even thinner. And again, this all works as an effective holding action until they get a better Supreme Court.

 

FWIW, hoping and praying for Scalia's continued good health.

 

Rich Phillips

Blackhawk067 Member

Blackhawk067

Posted
Posted

I don't get this. Shortly after the big win on the Moore/Shepard case in the appeals court, it was much touted that we had the winning hand and the pressure was all on the anti-gunners to see it our way, since all we needed to do was sit on our hands and wait till the 9th of June. Now I see more and more predictions of doom if we don't give in to the other side. Makes no sense to me.

 

Always darkest before the dawn.

snubjob Member

snubjob

Posted
Posted

I don't get this. Shortly after the big win on the Moore/Shepard case in the appeals court, it was much touted that we had the winning hand and the pressure was all on the anti-gunners to see it our way, since all we needed to do was sit on our hands and wait till the 9th of June. Now I see more and more predictions of doom if we don't give in to the other side. Makes no sense to me.

Reality has set in.
snubjob Member

snubjob

Posted
Posted

Hi XD9,

 

Our exhuberance was justified -- a decision like that was a long time coming.

 

But we're up against politicians who are not only exceedingly skillful in using the system to their own ends, but also totally without scruples when it comes to spending public money to fend off lawsuit after lawsuit. Stall, stall, stall, and hope that eventually we will run out of money or motivation, or that they'll get a court decision that puts the issue in a posture they can live with.

 

(I give as my example the recent New York case on "shall issue". By stonewalling a stringent may issue law and getting the Supreme Court to decline to take an appeal, they essentially get what they wanted all along -- the means to suppress a fundamental right under the cover of law.)

 

The issue of a patchwork of local laws is a very real one for us, but think about it -- it may actually be the next best thing for them. By extensively localizing a wide variety of restrictions, antis get an awful lot of what they want. Plus, the prospect of scattered litigation that spreads us even thinner. And again, this all works as an effective holding action until they get a better Supreme Court.

 

FWIW, hoping and praying for Scalia's continued good health.

 

Rich Phillips

Bingo Rich. Sad, but true.
Drylok Member

Drylok

Posted
Posted

I don't get this. Shortly after the big win on the Moore/Shepard case in the appeals court, it was much touted that we had the winning hand and the pressure was all on the anti-gunners to see it our way, since all we needed to do was sit on our hands and wait till the 9th of June. Now I see more and more predictions of doom if we don't give in to the other side. Makes no sense to me.

That's because when the decision first came down people on our side thought and some still think we will have constitution carry if we go over the cliff. That is not true, it's going to be constitution carry cluster. What the other side is doing right now is pushing it to the last second so then they can say we have to pass this may issue, 40 hr training, $300 for a permit no carry bill or else. The people in the middle are so stupid they have no idea of the Implimentations and consequences of such a bill and go for it. Also it will get a few of the spineless cowards on our side to fold and well be stuck for another decade fighting it off.

Drylok Member

Drylok

Posted
Posted

FWIW, hoping and praying for Scalia's continued good health.

Rich Phillips

 

And Kennedy, Roberts, alto and Thomas

Frank Member

Frank

Posted
Posted
“We have lots of conflicts in this building (the Capitol), yet we ban weapons here.” State Sen. Kwame Raoul, D-Chicago, answering those who said that high-conflict areas are more in need of concealed carry than more peaceful areas of the state.

 

Seriously?!? He is comparing political disagreements to the deadly attacks seen daily across the state and in Chicago? This is the mindset of many anti-gunners. Any disagreements will inevitably escalate to a deadly attack if weapons are present:

 

Road rage? Shoot 'em up!

 

Fight over a parking space? Bang Bang!

 

Bump someone with your shopping cart? Better duck for cover!

 

Political argument? Kill that ****** ******!

 

I think they need to make sure that any sharp or pointy objects are removed from the IL Senate floor before it turns in to a blood bath!

 

-- Frank

patriot1776 Member

patriot1776

Posted
Posted

I don't get this. Shortly after the big win on the Moore/Shepard case in the appeals court, it was much touted that we had the winning hand and the pressure was all on the anti-gunners to see it our way, since all we needed to do was sit on our hands and wait till the 9th of June. Now I see more and more predictions of doom if we don't give in to the other side. Makes no sense to me.

That's because when the decision first came down people on our side thought and some still think we will have constitution carry if we go over the cliff. That is not true, it's going to be constitution carry cluster. What the other side is doing right now is pushing it to the last second so then they can say we have to pass this may issue, 40 hr training, $300 for a permit no carry bill or else. The people in the middle are so stupid they have no idea of the Implimentations and consequences of such a bill and go for it. Also it will get a few of the spineless cowards on our side to fold and well be stuck for another decade fighting it off.

+ 1 Same thing i have said over and over , last second Madigan brings out a bad one he says vote or get stuck with constitutional carry. You think the connected people will take any training or pay any fee ? May issue either way.
bigdiogi Member

bigdiogi

Posted
Posted

 

... until they get a better Supreme Court.

 

 

I don't think that's really the term you MEANT to use, was it?

TheDaveFactor Member

TheDaveFactor

Posted
Posted
“We have lots of conflicts in this building (the Capitol), yet we ban weapons here.” State Sen. Kwame Raoul, D-Chicago, answering those who said that high-conflict areas are more in need of concealed carry than more peaceful areas of the state.

 

Seriously?!? He is comparing political disagreements to the deadly attacks seen daily across the state and in Chicago? This is the mindset of many anti-gunners. Any disagreements will inevitably escalate to a deadly attack if weapons are present:

 

Road rage? Shoot 'em up!

 

Fight over a parking space? Bang Bang!

 

Bump someone with your shopping cart? Better duck for cover!

 

Political argument? Kill that ****** ******!

 

I think they need to make sure that any sharp or pointy objects are removed from the IL Senate floor before it turns in to a blood bath!

 

-- Frank

 

It makes me scream when I hear crap like that from Kwame and NOBODY calls him on it and says, "Yes, we ban the guns here... But we have a small army of armed guards to protect us, just waiting a moment away. The people of Chicago (and Illinois) don't have the same luxury that we do..."

 

Why doesn't any politician ever say that kind of thing? They just let it slide by... Very frustrating to me.

Sub Hunter Member

Sub Hunter

Posted
Posted
I'll be on pins and needles until the ink is dry on a good bill for everyone in the state. I was just on the tribunes website and I see they are introducing a the bill banning high cap mags tomorrow with some parents of Newtown. This we knew about but how nice of the libune to start the story tonight. Plus it was titled Illinois Dems push for mag ban when it really should have been titled Chicago/Crook county Dems push for mag ban.
Sub Hunter Member

Sub Hunter

Posted
Posted

I'll be on pins and needles until the ink is dry on a good bill for everyone in the state. I was just on the tribunes website and I see they are introducing a the bill banning high cap mags tomorrow with some parents of Newtown. This we knew about but how nice of the libune to start the story tonight. Plus it was titled Illinois Dems push for mag ban when it really should have been titled Chicago/Crook county Dems push for mag ban.

 

Mods please feel free to move, I didn't see Todd's post that he started this afternoon.

chevsuz12 Member

chevsuz12

Posted
Posted

I don't get this. Shortly after the big win on the Moore/Shepard case in the appeals court, it was much touted that we had the winning hand and the pressure was all on the anti-gunners to see it our way, since all we needed to do was sit on our hands and wait till the 9th of June. Now I see more and more predictions of doom if we don't give in to the other side. Makes no sense to me.

 

I agree, Makes no sense to me either. Never back down from a fight, and never give in. We Won! The Constitution Won! Now gives us our rights back!

 

....XD9SC, love that gun!

wtr100 Member

wtr100

Posted
Posted

Worry is downstate Dems fold like a cheap suit at the 11 th hour and we get a crappy bill

 

Pressure, Pressure , Pressure

C0untZer0 Member

C0untZer0

Posted
Posted
Now what would be really funny is if Lisa Madigan asked for an extension on the 180 stay and Kagan replied "The court is not in the habit of granting stays for no other reason than that the defendant micturated away the last six months"

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