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Will the "Red wave" sweep over IL in November, and will it be enough to kill the FOID card?


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On 5/2/2022 at 3:03 PM, BobPistol said:

 

And that's a few words that say "I blindly trust the Illinois government to be 100% free of corruption and cronyism"

How does Illinois corruption invalidate the report?  Do you have some evidence that suggests the report is wrong or do you just not like the conclusion?

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:34 AM, ElMono said:

How does Illinois corruption invalidate the report?  Do you have some evidence that suggests the report is wrong or do you just not like the conclusion?

 

Ah.  So now you're saying corruption has nothing to do with how the state spends money.   As if zero spending from the IL state government was funneled to cronies.      No such thing as politically connected state contractors who successfully seem to be winning bids over other competitors for some reason.   No such thing as quid pro quo. 

 

Should we start singing hymns now about how saintly the State of Illinois is?      

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:13 PM, BobPistol said:

 

Ah.  So now you're saying corruption has nothing to do with how the state spends money.   As if zero spending from the IL state government was funneled to cronies.      No such thing as politically connected state contractors who successfully seem to be winning bids over other competitors for some reason.   No such thing as quid pro quo. 

 

Should we start singing hymns now about how saintly the State of Illinois is?      

What percentage of that corrupt money was spent in Chicago, the collar counties and downstate?  A rough number will be fine. Since you've discounted the report as being flatly wrong you should have your own data to back up your position. 

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On 5/4/2022 at 6:56 AM, ElMono said:

What percentage of that corrupt money was spent in Chicago, the collar counties and downstate?  A rough number will be fine. Since you've discounted the report as being flatly wrong you should have your own data to back up your position. 

 

Any money funneled to cronies - should not count toward any spending figures toward "Chicago, collar counties and downstate" - that's my point.    Any nonzero percentage calls sufficient reasonable doubt on any spending figures printed. 

You disagree, and claim there is no money funneled to cronies, and at the same time claim the spending figures cannot be questioned.  

 

I personally believe that so much money is funneled to cronies, that your point about red vs blue counties pulling their weight is moot - and that the cronyage is the issue. 

 

If Illinois had no cronyage or an insignificant percentage of cronyage, it would never be teetering on the verge of bankruptcy as it is now. 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 5/4/2022 at 10:27 AM, BobPistol said:

I personally believe that so much money is funneled to cronies, that your point about red vs blue counties pulling their weight is moot - and that the cronyage is the issue. 

The problem is I'm arguing a point based on a published report and you're arguing based on your personal feelings.  You just know in your heart that the report is wrong but have nothing to back that that up but feelings. 

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On 5/4/2022 at 10:03 AM, ElMono said:

The problem is I'm arguing a point based on a published report and you're arguing based on your personal feelings.  You just know in your heart that the report is wrong but have nothing to back that that up but feelings. 

 

I argue based on facts, not feelings. 

 

It is a fact that the state of Illinois is horrifically corrupt and has six tons of cronyage in its spending.

 

You deny this. 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 5/4/2022 at 1:19 PM, BobPistol said:

 

I argue based on facts, not feelings. 

 

It is a fact that the state of Illinois is horrifically corrupt and has six tons of cronyage in its spending.

 

You deny this. 

I don't deny that Illinois has corruption so we can dispense with that strawman right now.

 

What facts have you provided to show that political corruption in Illinois has skewed this report?  I know you feel it in your heart, but surely you've got some form of evidence you can provide to back up your opinion.

 

 

 

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On 5/4/2022 at 12:03 PM, ElMono said:

The problem is I'm arguing a point based on a published report and you're arguing based on your personal feelings.  You just know in your heart that the report is wrong but have nothing to back that that up but feelings. 

Or, perhaps, you are arguing a point by making the claim that the economy of an oppressed and suppressed people will remain the same when that oppression and suppression is lifted.
Maybe the correct question is, do you believe past performance under oppression is indicative of future performance under freedom?

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On 5/4/2022 at 12:23 PM, ElMono said:

I don't deny that Illinois has corruption so we can dispense with that strawman right now.

 

 

But you deny that the corruption has any impact on the spending figures.   You believe the spending figures in the article are 100% correct as to amount and distribution, and that 100% of the money goes directly to benefit the people in those three areas.

 

I, on the other hand, know that Illinois politicians lie and enrich cronies through spending.      So I question the validity of the numbers due to the fact that politicians lie.   I also question your conclusion that blue part of the state subsidizes the red part of the state.   I maintain we can't judge that. 

 

So let's pretend the numbers are accurate (only as a gross amount) for a minute, just for grins and giggles.    Let's pretend that Illinois politicians actually did the impossible and told the truth about the numbers on a gross amount basis.

 

Subtract from "Chicago" "downstate" "collar counties" all the state level cronyism and what would be the real pattern?  

Oh.

 

We can't analyze that because they won't openly report how much of that spending was funneled to cronies - and thus Chicago, downstate and collar counties really didn't benefit from any of that particular cronyage spending - only cronies benefitted.

So, since we cannot get the amount of state level cronyage involved in any of that spending after it leaves the state's hands - we cannot make any conclusions based on the spending amounts.

But wait.   I just got started.

A lot of this spending is given to county, township and local governments - who also have their own cronyage on top of this.   Of course, the people don't benefit from this one iota.

So from those net state numbers we have to subtract all the county, township and local government cronyage. 

Of course, they won't publicly disclose how much that is.

 

So, we cannot make any conclusions based on the spending amounts.

 

This has nothing to do with emotions.  It has everything to do with doubting what we are told by politicians at all levels. 

 

 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 5/4/2022 at 2:23 PM, ElMono said:

I don't deny that Illinois has corruption so we can dispense with that strawman right now.

 

What facts have you provided to show that political corruption in Illinois has skewed this report?  I know you feel it in your heart, but surely you've got some form of evidence you can provide to back up your opinion.

 

 

There is no evidence. That may be the beauty of the argument... I lies solely in belief.

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Feelings, whoa-oh-oh, feelings ...

 

Of course there is no evidence.  The corrupt actors would need to order legitimate investigations of their own corruption in order to obtain it.  That's not going to happen; they need to keep the corruption hidden, in order both to perpetuate it, and to shield themselves from legal and political repercussions.  This is like stating that Joe Biden never received any tangible benefit from Hunter's foreign business ventures, because there's no evidence, while the FBI has sat on the laptop for years (if they haven't long ago destroyed it) without initiating an investigation, and Garland's DoJ has likewise taken a "move along, nothing to see here" attitude towards it.  You heard the government itself make similar arguments while pushing for and enacting RICO.  

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On 5/4/2022 at 10:28 PM, soundguy said:

 

There is no evidence. That may be the beauty of the argument... I lies solely in belief.

I'm just happy to know that we can now debate based only on feelings without any hard data to back it up.  Finding links is kind of annoying so it will be nice to not have to back up my arguments anymore.

 

As an example, I heard that Bob is the largest beneficiary to downstate corruption.  I can't tell you where I heard it or provide any proof, but we all agree Illinois is full of corruption.  If Bob tries to deny it, we all know he's just denying the corruption that clearly exists in IL. 🤣

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On 5/4/2022 at 8:28 PM, soundguy said:

 

There is no evidence. That may be the beauty of the argument... I lies solely in belief.

 

Well, the political types do this all the time.

 

They have no evidence to back up their partisan beliefs - but if one dares to disagree - watch the vitriol come from them.

 

 

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Outside of the Chicago Machine, I believe we have fair elections.  Since Chicago has misappropriated power, there is no need to cheat outside of Chicago, as it does not matter.  

 

There may be a red wave in the State legislature, but right now, I see J.B. winning another term, and it will hinge on the Suburbs of Chicago.

Plus the Republicans don't have a front runner, it's all divided up, so J.B. might win with only 30% of the vote...and we all know what a blowhard he is.

 

In ways, California has a better constitution.  Illinois desperately needs a way that something can be put on the ballot based on signatures.  Springfield is useless.

The next governor SHOULD BE Darren Bailey.  An actual farmer that got screwed on taxes....that is why he is running.

 

But the RINO's and Democrats has a firm grip on this State.  Just look at the Illinois License plate, half of it is Chicago, a little barn, Springfield rotunda, and nothing south of there.  The Illinois License plate depicts the states problem, very accurately. 

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On 5/13/2022 at 12:22 PM, Wild Bill said:

There will be no red wave in Illinois, conservative citizens in IL have one choice, leave and move to a FREE state.

Less taxes, less oversight, less "permits", more money in your pocket.

Liberals in Illannoy should stay there, revel in the cesspool of political stupidity and corruption. 

Truer words were never spoken.  Someone had the local liberal "news" on last night, and they were interviewing some obviously LWW about the mayhem going on in his Old Town neighborhood.  He actually had the nerve to sarcastically gripe about gangs, and shootings etc.  Hey stupid, that's what you believe in and continue to vote for!!!  The nerve of these Lincoln Park, Gold Coast, Bucktown, Old Town etc. libs to cry about crime in their neighborhoods; WTH do they think they've been voting for their entire, lemming-like lives?

Edited by 2A4Cook
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