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Three Children and their guardians v Illinois - ADA complaint

PTSD is a Disability

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#1 mikew

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 10:26 PM

In Federal Court, Northern District.

 

The original complaint

https://www.courthou...affickingIL.pdf

 

The ruling that the case can go forward

https://www.courthou...GunViolence.pdf

 

Today's news story about yesterday's ruling:

https://www.richmond...d61d29f413.html

 

excerpt:

CHICAGO — A federal judge is allowing victims of Chicago’s gun violence to proceed with a lawsuit against the state of Illinois that seeks tighter regulation of gun sales.

The lawsuit was filed last year on behalf of children who suffered trauma from shootings in their Austin neighborhood, one of five predominantly African American neighborhoods in Chicago that have experienced concentrated levels of violence, according to the plaintiffs’ lawyers.

The state asked that the lawsuit be dismissed. But on Monday U.S. District Court Judge Joan Gottschall issued a 34-page detailed decision denying the motion and allowing arguments to be heard on the unique lawsuit, which argues that Illinois is violating both the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Illinois Civil Rights Act by not doing more to reduce gun trafficking.

The resulting violence has caused “cognitive and emotional disabilities” in children, the suit argues, and has had a “disparate impact” of violence on minority communities.

In her decision, Gottschall said the complaint provided ample statistical evidence for the lawsuit to proceed. “It is reasonable to infer that the concentrated violence begets trauma and the psychological and behavioral injuries described in the complaint, creating discrete pockets of predominately African-American individuals disproportionately likely to be harmed by ongoing exposure,” the judge wrote.

 

 

 



#2 Flynn

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 10:41 PM

Only in Illinois (NY, NJ and CA) with a Clinton (Obama) appointed judge would a lawsuit like this actually be given any credibility.


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#3 Jeffrey

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 10:58 PM

Not a single mention about going after the bangers. They need to get honest and admit they just want to go after the law abiding and make it as close to impossible as they can to purchase, own, and possess a gun. I say as close to so they can still spit out BS about believing in the constitution and 2A. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#4 Bubbacs

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:17 PM

people, yes kids too, being traumatized by their very own neighbors in their very own community

and yet it is the states fault that the very people doing the harm to the kids in these community's is those same people

 

I loath Illinois at various times, but i'll have to step up and say its NOT Illinois's problem, it's a justice and family problem which will never be addressed in our lifetime.

i may be here long enough to see the end, but it's coming and it's going to be the beginnings of a new era and the battles will be fought in the streets and the rural areas through out the US

no one will be spared the impact, except those of us old enough to be gone when the s hits the fans   



#5 Euler

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 12:27 AM

...
Thousands of African-American children in Chicago have endured an epidemic of gun violence for years.
...
Forty per cent (40%) of the guns being used in gun-related crime in Chicago are purchased at gun stores in Illinois, most in suburbs nearby Chicago. Seven gun shops provide most of these weapons.
...
These Illinois gun dealers are:
Chuck's Gun Shop in Riverdale, IL
Midwest Sporting Goods in Lyons, IL
Shore Galleries in Lincolnwood, IL
GAT Guns in East Dundee, IL
Suburban Sporting Goods in Melrose Park, IL
Pelcher's Shooter Supply in Lansing, IL
Sporting Arms & Supply in Posen, IL

Large numbers of guns purchased from these dealers were used in crimes within one year of their purchase. So, Suburban Sporting Goods in Melrose Park, IL sold 85 guns used in Chicago crimes in 2016 alone, and 46% of these guns were sold less than a year before their use in these crimes. 68% of the "crime guns" sold were used by criminals within three years of purchase. Chuck's Gun Shop in Riverdale, IL sold 997 "crime guns" during the period 2013-2016, and 21% of their guns were used in Chicago crimes within one year. Ninety-two percent of the "crime guns" sold by these stores are handguns.

During the 2013-2016 period, federally-licensed gun dealers in Illinois reported that 1,200 guns were lost or stolen from these dealers prior to any sale. ... Chuck's Gun Shop alone reported 43 guns stolen between 2013 and 2016.
...
As a matter of law, the regulation of gun trafficking in Illinois is a state matter, over which the State of Illinois has claimed preemption, 430 ILCS 65/13.1. The only way to limit the flow of "crime guns" from Illinois gun dealers into the City of Chicago is for the State of Illinois and its Department of State Police ("the State Police") to exercise the authority the state legislature has provided, and both adopt and enforce meaningful rules on the trafficking and storage of guns.
...
The State Police, however, have never adopted regulations that meaningfully keep guns out of the hands of non-licensed persons. ... Nor have the State Police adopted regulations that would make the FOID permit and background check system a meaningful barrier to the purchase of "crime guns" either in the primary market, i.e. at federally-licensed gun stores, or in the secondary market.
...
Without any change in Illinois law, and without any cost to the State of Illinois, the State Police can today ... impose on all federally-licensed Illinois gun dealers and gun show promoters mandatory obligations:
...
To participate in the implementation of a State Police firearms registration system
...


If 40% of so-called "crime guns" originate in sales from Illinois gun stores, then 60% of them don't. I'm not sure that's significant, though. They have to come from somewhere. They don't just spring into existence in the possession of criminals. Note that the statistic is not that 40% of all guns sold in Illinois are used in crimes. Likewise the statistics of the listed gun stores state what percentage of guns used in crimes were used within one year of purchase, not a percentage of total sales that were used in crimes. For example, the statistic is not that 21% of Chuck's gun sales were used in crimes, although I get the impression that that's how I'm supposed to misinterpret it. (Meanwhile, I think I am impressed at the total volume of guns Chuck's seems to sell at retail prices, assuming the unstated majority of their sales are indeed to law-abiding individuals. Business is good just on the other side of the city limits.)

The suit essentially requires that the ISP adopt and enforce regulations on gun shops, mostly similar to those in the proposed gun dealer licensing regulations. Would gun dealer licensing make this case moot?

The stolen gun statistics do look pretty bad. Gun shops already keep records of who buys what guns legally, although the language of the complaint makes it sound like gun shops are willfully selling guns to Illinois residents without FOIDs. I'm not sure how a firearm registry is going to help stop crime. Are criminals supposed to register the guns that they steal with the ISP? How is the ISP supposed to compel that by leaning on gun shops? I'm pretty sure gun shops already report what guns are stolen when they report a theft.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#6 mauserme

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 06:56 AM

This seems similar to Plaintiff Michael Pfleger's suit against the Villlages of Riverdale, Lyons and Lincolnwood from several years ago.

#7 mikew

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 07:33 AM

Ahh, Pfleger...  just a month ago...

 

https://chicago.sunt...-slams-ted-cruz
 

Pfleger also took a moment to lambast Cruz’s recent comments on Twitter attributing Chicago’s restrictive gun laws to its violence.

“It’s sad when you see somebody who holds an elected office be so ignorant and uninformed,” Pfleger said of the Republican senator.

“Come here Sen. Cruz, and let me get in a car and drive you to Chuck’s Guns Shop in Riverdale, or right across the border to Indiana, and show how you can get guns whenever you want,” he added, pointing out the need for federal legislation that would surpass a patchwork of uneven state gun laws.



#8 Raw Power

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 08:06 AM

 

...
Thousands of African-American children in Chicago have endured an epidemic of gun violence for years.
...
Forty per cent (40%) of the guns being used in gun-related crime in Chicago are purchased at gun stores in Illinois, most in suburbs nearby Chicago. Seven gun shops provide most of these weapons.
...
These Illinois gun dealers are:
Chuck's Gun Shop in Riverdale, IL
Midwest Sporting Goods in Lyons, IL
Shore Galleries in Lincolnwood, IL
GAT Guns in East Dundee, IL
Suburban Sporting Goods in Melrose Park, IL
Pelcher's Shooter Supply in Lansing, IL
Sporting Arms & Supply in Posen, IL

Large numbers of guns purchased from these dealers were used in crimes within one year of their purchase. So, Suburban Sporting Goods in Melrose Park, IL sold 85 guns used in Chicago crimes in 2016 alone, and 46% of these guns were sold less than a year before their use in these crimes. 68% of the "crime guns" sold were used by criminals within three years of purchase. Chuck's Gun Shop in Riverdale, IL sold 997 "crime guns" during the period 2013-2016, and 21% of their guns were used in Chicago crimes within one year. Ninety-two percent of the "crime guns" sold by these stores are handguns.

During the 2013-2016 period, federally-licensed gun dealers in Illinois reported that 1,200 guns were lost or stolen from these dealers prior to any sale. ... Chuck's Gun Shop alone reported 43 guns stolen between 2013 and 2016.
...
As a matter of law, the regulation of gun trafficking in Illinois is a state matter, over which the State of Illinois has claimed preemption, 430 ILCS 65/13.1. The only way to limit the flow of "crime guns" from Illinois gun dealers into the City of Chicago is for the State of Illinois and its Department of State Police ("the State Police") to exercise the authority the state legislature has provided, and both adopt and enforce meaningful rules on the trafficking and storage of guns.
...
The State Police, however, have never adopted regulations that meaningfully keep guns out of the hands of non-licensed persons. ... Nor have the State Police adopted regulations that would make the FOID permit and background check system a meaningful barrier to the purchase of "crime guns" either in the primary market, i.e. at federally-licensed gun stores, or in the secondary market.
...
Without any change in Illinois law, and without any cost to the State of Illinois, the State Police can today ... impose on all federally-licensed Illinois gun dealers and gun show promoters mandatory obligations:
...
To participate in the implementation of a State Police firearms registration system
...


If 40% of so-called "crime guns" originate in sales from Illinois gun stores, then 60% of them don't. I'm not sure that's significant, though. They have to come from somewhere. They don't just spring into existence in the possession of criminals. Note that the statistic is not that 40% of all guns sold in Illinois are used in crimes. Likewise the statistics of the listed gun stores state what percentage of guns used in crimes were used within one year of purchase, not a percentage of total sales that were used in crimes. For example, the statistic is not that 21% of Chuck's gun sales were used in crimes, although I get the impression that that's how I'm supposed to misinterpret it. (Meanwhile, I think I am impressed at the total volume of guns Chuck's seems to sell at retail prices, assuming the unstated majority of their sales are indeed to law-abiding individuals. Business is good just on the other side of the city limits.)

The suit essentially requires that the ISP adopt and enforce regulations on gun shops, mostly similar to those in the proposed gun dealer licensing regulations. Would gun dealer licensing make this case moot?

The stolen gun statistics do look pretty bad. Gun shops already keep records of who buys what guns legally, although the language of the complaint makes it sound like gun shops are willfully selling guns to Illinois residents without FOIDs. I'm not sure how a firearm registry is going to help stop crime. Are criminals supposed to register the guns that they steal with the ISP? How is the ISP supposed to compel that by leaning on gun shops? I'm pretty sure gun shops already report what guns are stolen when they report a theft.

 

 

If someone comes in and fills out a 4473, is approved, and buys a gun, why should it be your responsibility what they do with it afterwards? Do we hold car dealerships accountable for drunk drivers? Of course we don't.

This is a gun grab, plain and simple, and an attempt to close the few stores left in the Chicago area as it is.

 

 

If a store decided to ban buyers who lived in Austin, how would that look? But if there is a high incident rate of crime is happening there, what can a law-abiding FFL do to stop it? It's not their job. It is the job of the police, the mayor's office, and the community to solve this problem. 

 

Looking for more scapegoats won't solve the problem in the least. Asking the hard questions about why so much disinvestment has happened and how to change that, will.

 

Now let's look at the other "problem" that Antis in Chicago and the suburbs love to talk about: Indiana.

 

It's SOOOO easy to buy guns in Indiana, according to Antis. And of course, guns lead to problems, right? So if that were true, Indiana would be a warzone just like Austin... but it's not.

 

So the problem isn't guns. The problem is crime. The problem is a culture of crime, and we can talk about the root causes of those criminal behaviors, and probably get somewhere if action is taken on that. But violence caused with a gun is a symptom of something else, it's not a root cause of any issues in the Austin neighborhood or anywhere else for that matter.



#9 Bubbacs

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Posted 02 October 2019 - 02:07 PM

Ahh, Pfleger...  just a month ago...
 
https://chicago.sunt...-slams-ted-cruz
 

Pfleger also took a moment to lambast Cruz’s recent comments on Twitter attributing Chicago’s restrictive gun laws to its violence.
“It’s sad when you see somebody who holds an elected office be so ignorant and uninformed,” Pfleger said of the Republican senator.
“Come here Sen. Cruz, and let me get in a car and drive you to Chuck’s Guns Shop in Riverdale, or right across the border to Indiana, and show how you can get guns whenever you want,” he added, pointing out the need for federal legislation that would surpass a patchwork of uneven state gun laws.


Do we NOT have an arm of something something which can call this fake father out?
Could not we make a public call for taking him at his offer?
Would not this be a great opportunity to show the process of getting a firearm!
The media would need to be there of course, hopefully someone we could call and not just the fake father!

When people are so ignorant and uniformed it IS shame that they can then lie to anyone and everyone and call it truth!

ICC, ISRA, Todd, a republican who knows that this statement is wrong?
Anyone?

When it’s said at times through out the year that our people are working behind the scenes, can we get them to step out on one of these every now and then?

Until we have this, then we will continue to lose ground and allow those who can dial up the media and get them to cover anything they say.......

#10 Euler

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 03:51 PM

In a twist of fate, the NRA-ILA comes to Kwame's defense in opposing this suit. Or maybe the twist of fate is that Kwame opposes it.

...
It is difficult to overstate the bizarre nature of the case. As Illinois Attorney General Kwame Raoul explained in a memorandum of law in support of the state's motion to dismiss, the plaintiffs did not even have standing to bring the case. Raoul noted, "Standing is the 'irreducible constitutional minimum' required to bring a case in federal court."
...
Beyond the obvious lack of standing, the plaintiffs' theory is a wild abuse of the ADA. As Raoul noted, the ADA is there to ensure that reasonable accommodations are made so that persons with disabilities are not excluded from the use of public programs or services. An example of such accommodations might be a wheelchair ramp at a polling place, or a handicap stall in a bathroom at a public school.

The plaintiffs in this case have not been excluded from school or the general law enforcement functions of the state.
...


The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.





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