Can Instructors condense 16hrs., to 9...

[45 whit]

...if they cover all material required by law? Reason I ask is a friend of nine said he got the full 16hrs., credit in 9hrs., the first day, and on the 2nd day he did his shooting qualification and then was allowed to go home. I asked him if they covered everything and he said yes. I asked him if he was given his NRA certificate and he said no, just the qualification one needed for his permit. This doesn't sound right...is this legal and what suggestions would you make to him?

[soundguy]

No.

 

There is no other answer.

[RacerDave6]

No it's not legal.

 

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[Onytay]

Nope.

[Molly B.]

The only way this can be right is if he already had 8 hrs. of prior credit.

[Dr. Rat]

No - and the instructor should be reported.

[kurt555gs]

Rather then claim my Utah and Fl exemption I took the whole 16 hours with two lady friends that were new shooters. I know, 2. Long story. In any case we were there the whole 16. Actually it was fun and informative.

 

Signature line.

 

 

[billzfx4]

First suggestion would to be go ask for a refund and find an instructor that does things the right way.

[45 whit]

No, he did not. Should he contact his instructor about this issue and what should he say?

[pdpsc]

Who was the instructor?

[45 whit]

It was in Vermillion county and he did not say the instructors name.

[billzfx4]

If this instructor is disqualified for cutting corners his certificate will be as useless as the paper it's printed on. He will then be denied a license, and have to start the process all over again.

[TyGuy]

Something along the lines of:

 

I paid for a course that would satisfy the required training, as it did not go the allotted time it did not fulfill the requirements and therefore I am entitled to a refund.

[Elderberry]

The only way this can be right is if he already had 8 hrs. of prior credit.

 

I'm glad there are people in the world who don't jump to conclusions based on 2nd and 3rd hand incomplete information...

 

Great post....

[45 whit]

I asked him if he had any prior credit and he did not, that is why he took the 16hr., course as stated in OP.

[soundguy]

To file a complaint regarding an approved Illinois Concealed Carry Instructors with the Illinois State Police, please complete the form listed below and return to the Illinois State Police. Complaint forms may be submitted electronically to Academy_Conceal_Carry@isp.state.il.us, or may be mailed to the following address:

Illinois State Police

Concealed Carry

Instructor Complaints

Post Office Box 19333

Springfield, Illinois 62794

 

All complaint forms must be notarized. We will not accept third party complaints.

 

CCI Complaint Form

[Nic]

16 hours is a "butt in seat" legally mandated minimum. You could cover the materials in 9 hours but then you will need to sit around and twiddle your thumbs for 7 hours to fulfill the requirement.

 

You cannot believe how many people scoff at me because they are saying that so-and-so instructor is willing to do all 16 hours in 1 day of 6-8 hours only. They then say I charge too much and I require too much class time when I only ask them to stay the legal minimum. I then ask them for the instructor's name and they won't share that.

[Molly B.]

No, he did not. Should he contact his instructor about this issue and what should he say?

 

Please do not post the instructor's name unless and until all details are known. We know how easily people jump to conclusions.

 

He should contact his instructor and ask if the instructor was aware that applicants without 8 hrs. for prior credit are required to attend a full 16 hrs. of training. If the instructor did short the applicant's training hours, the applicant should request the remaining hours he needs or, in my opinion, he would be entitled to a refund.

 

If the instructor refuses to complete the training or issue a refund, then please PM contact info to me.

[Erno]

Rather then claim my Utah and Fl exemption I took the whole 16 hours with two lady friends that were new shooters. I know, 2. Long story. In any case we were there the whole 16. Actually it was fun and informative.

 

Signature line.

+1

 

I did the same with my daughter. Enjoyed spending the time with her.

[AJR]

Molly's answer gets my +1 vote, but to answer a question that is within your question, one can have a full 16 hour class and not get a NRA BP Certificate.

If they have an approved curriculum that covers the ISP requirements and it does not include a NRA BP class, no NRA BP certificate would be issued.

[soundguy]

Go with Molly.

[pdpsc]

Molly's answer gets my +1 vote, but to answer a question that is within your question, one can have a full 16 hour class and not get a NRA BP Certificate.

If they have an approved curriculum that covers the ISP requirements and it does not include a NRA BP class, no NRA BP certificate would be issued.

 

 

Exactly. Not all of us are doing NRA Basic Pistol for the first 8 hours. Once in a while I do NRA Basic Pistol for the first 8, but mostly I do my own curriculum.

[gangrel]

...if they cover all material required by law? Reason I ask is a friend of nine said he got the full 16hrs., credit in 9hrs., the first day, and on the 2nd day he did his shooting qualification and then was allowed to go home. I asked him if they covered everything and he said yes. I asked him if he was given his NRA certificate and he said no, just the qualification one needed for his permit. This doesn't sound right...is this legal and what suggestions would you make to him?

 

An NRA Basic Pistol certificate is not a requirement, if the instructor has an approved 16 hour curriculum. However, if the instructor is teaching a 16 hour curriculum in 9 hours, he is in violation of the law, plain and simple.

[lockman]

If you finish the material in less time, which is most probably the smaller the class is, I would add lots of fluff at the end, holsters selection, use of cover lots of Q&A discussion.

 

As I have said before I burned through my instructor course material in about 1/4 the time. I was the only student in a class of 12 to show up due to inclement weather. So we did a lot of extra shooting and combat exercises. Went through over 400 rounds of 38 spl at the instructors expense. Talk about getting your monies worth.

[gangrel]

No, he did not. Should he contact his instructor about this issue and what should he say?

 

Please do not post the instructor's name unless and until all details are known. We know how easily people jump to conclusions.

 

He should contact his instructor and ask if the instructor was aware that applicants without 8 hrs. for prior credit are required to attend a full 16 hrs. of training. If the instructor did short the applicant's training hours, the applicant should request the remaining hours he needs or, in my opinion, he would be entitled to a refund.

 

If the instructor refuses to complete the training or issue a refund, then please PM contact info to me.

 

Molly -

 

Regardless of whether the student goes back to the instructor and requests the additional hours, if the instructor is making a habit of doing this, he is a high risk for getting his credentials revoked, and the training certificate he provides won't be worth the paper it's printed on. I'm not sure what the best action to take is, but I would think the student should be seeking a refund so he can plan to take the course with a different instructor.

[45 whit]

Molly...just talked to my friend and he is going to contact his instructor. If their is a problem I'll PM you his name. The instructor did advertise for the full 16hr class but covered in 9hrs the first day and released them after qualification on the 2nd day.

[AJR]

Has anyone added up the hours in the subsection and noticed it adds up to 6?

Why state 16 hours minimum, then contradict yourself. (No coffee yet, so please be kind.)

 

This starts at the bottom of page 935

 

===========================

 

A 16 hour training course must, at a minimum, cover the following topics:

A) Firearms Safety - a minimum of 1 hour;

1

Basic Principles of Marksmanship - a minimum of 1 hour;

1

C) Care, Cleaning, Loading and Unloading of a Concealable Firearm

- a minimum of 1 hour;

1

D) All Applicable State and Federal Laws Relating to the Ownership,

Storage, Carry and Transportation of a Firearm and appropriate

and lawful interaction with law enforcement while transporting or

carrying a concealed firearm - a minimum of 2 hours; and

2

E) Weapons Handling - a minimum of 1 hour.

1

==

6 Hours Total

 

================================

For the topics to be included in the 16 hour and 8 hour training courses,

the minimum hours established in this subsection (d) have been

determined to be sufficient for the experienced shooter and shall be

adjusted upward by the approved instructor based upon the skill level of

those to be trained to ensure proficiency by all upon the completion of the

required training component.

[gangrel]

Has anyone added up the hours in the subsection and noticed it adds up to 6?

Why state 16 hours minimum, then contradict yourself. (No coffee yet, so please be kind.)

 

This starts at the bottom of page 935

 

===========================

 

A 16 hour training course must, at a minimum, cover the following topics:

A) Firearms Safety - a minimum of 1 hour;

1

Basic Principles of Marksmanship - a minimum of 1 hour;

1

C) Care, Cleaning, Loading and Unloading of a Concealable Firearm

- a minimum of 1 hour;

1

D) All Applicable State and Federal Laws Relating to the Ownership,

Storage, Carry and Transportation of a Firearm and appropriate

and lawful interaction with law enforcement while transporting or

carrying a concealed firearm - a minimum of 2 hours; and

2

E) Weapons Handling - a minimum of 1 hour.

1

==

6 Hours Total

 

================================

For the topics to be included in the 16 hour and 8 hour training courses,

the minimum hours established in this subsection (d) have been

determined to be sufficient for the experienced shooter and shall be

adjusted upward by the approved instructor based upon the skill level of

those to be trained to ensure proficiency by all upon the completion of the

required training component.

 

Those are minimum time guidelines by topic for experienced shooters. It adds up to less than 16 hours to allow the instructors to determine which topics they need to spend more time on given the makeup of their classes. More range time, movement, cover and concealment...these topics are not included in the curriculum, but can be added if a class is experienced enough to absorb the minimum required material in a shorter period of time.

[AJR]

Has anyone added up the hours in the subsection and noticed it adds up to 6?

Why state 16 hours minimum, then contradict yourself. (No coffee yet, so please be kind.)

 

This starts at the bottom of page 935

 

===========================

 

A 16 hour training course must, at a minimum, cover the following topics:

A) Firearms Safety - a minimum of 1 hour;

1

Basic Principles of Marksmanship - a minimum of 1 hour;

1

C) Care, Cleaning, Loading and Unloading of a Concealable Firearm

- a minimum of 1 hour;

1

D) All Applicable State and Federal Laws Relating to the Ownership,

Storage, Carry and Transportation of a Firearm and appropriate

and lawful interaction with law enforcement while transporting or

carrying a concealed firearm - a minimum of 2 hours; and

2

E) Weapons Handling - a minimum of 1 hour.

1

==

6 Hours Total

 

================================

For the topics to be included in the 16 hour and 8 hour training courses,

the minimum hours established in this subsection (d) have been

determined to be sufficient for the experienced shooter and shall be

adjusted upward by the approved instructor based upon the skill level of

those to be trained to ensure proficiency by all upon the completion of the

required training component.

 

I just woke up.

It is the mandatory requirements, more is needed to fill the 16 hours.

 

I can barely finish the second module in 9 hours, so that was a bit strange to read.

[BillCook]

This topic has me wondering, and a bit worried.

 

I know of an instructor that is doing two 8 hour days for training. Weekend classes from 10am to 6pm, but they are including a 1 hour lunch break in the class. This would potentially mean there was only 14 hours of actual training if a lunch break counts as non-instruction time.

 

I never really gave this much thought until now. Is this a potential problem? And if so, who could I get the instructor in touch with to ‘Educate’ them from a more official stand point?