IL Supreme Court OKs Gun Carry in glove box, etc...

[templar223]

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted Oct 08, 2009 @ 11:29 AM

Last update Oct 08, 2009 @ 11:30 AM

 

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The Illinois Supreme Court says gun owners can carry weapons in the ordinary storage boxes built into their cars.

 

The question was whether a compartment for items like CDs and sunglasses also meets the legal definition of a "case" for carrying guns. Illinois law lets people carry guns in their cars so long as they are stored in a case or other container.

 

The court ruled Thursday that a car's storage box is good enough. Read the opinion (pdf).

 

The ruling was prompted by a Peoria case in which a man had been sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison for carrying two pistols in his car's storage compartment.

 

 

No, I don't have a link at this time.

[Jeffrey]

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted Oct 08, 2009 @ 11:29 AM

Last update Oct 08, 2009 @ 11:30 AM

 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

The Illinois Supreme Court says gun owners can carry weapons in the ordinary storage boxes built into their cars.

 

The question was whether a compartment for items like CDs and sunglasses also meets the legal definition of a "case" for carrying guns. Illinois law lets people carry guns in their cars so long as they are stored in a case or other container.

 

The court ruled Thursday that a car's storage box is good enough. Read the opinion (pdf).

 

The ruling was prompted by a Peoria case in which a man had been sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison for carrying two pistols in his car's storage compartment.

 

 

No, I don't have a link at this time.

 

Ammo/cartridge still need to be in a separate location I assume?

[Federal Farmer]

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted Oct 08, 2009 @ 11:29 AM

Last update Oct 08, 2009 @ 11:30 AM

 

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

The Illinois Supreme Court says gun owners can carry weapons in the ordinary storage boxes built into their cars.

 

The question was whether a compartment for items like CDs and sunglasses also meets the legal definition of a "case" for carrying guns. Illinois law lets people carry guns in their cars so long as they are stored in a case or other container.

 

The court ruled Thursday that a car's storage box is good enough. Read the opinion (pdf).

 

The ruling was prompted by a Peoria case in which a man had been sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison for carrying two pistols in his car's storage compartment.

 

 

No, I don't have a link at this time.

 

Ammo/cartridge still need to be in a separate location I assume?

 

No, just not in the gun, as usual.

[Ocellairs]

...this is also being discuss in this section of the forum

[Drylok]

Ammunition has never had to be seperate from the firearm correct? I need to find the statutes and print them off to give to a LEO friend who's confused too.

[soundguy]

Ammunition has never had to be seperate from the firearm correct? I need to find the statutes and print them off to give to a LEO friend who's confused too. Is it legal to have ammunition in the case with the firearm?

Yes, so long as the firearm is unloaded and properly enclosed in a case.

You can find that info on the color brochure from ISP and Governor Quinn:

 

Transport Your Firearm Legally

"Illinois law requires residents possessing ammunition have a valid FOID card. The location of ammunition being transported, including ammunition being transported in loaded magazines, is not regulated if the firearm is possessed or transported lawfully."

 

You can also find it at this link:

ISP Gun FAQ page

[Drylok]

Will they go back to the statutes and add language to acknowledge todays court decision or just leave it as is?

[Kaeghl]

I can see a small, detailed home based business being set up pretty soon.

 

"Attention, Gun Owners!!

 

You can now carry your gun in your car center console, the ILLINOIS SUPREME COURT SAID SO!!!

 

Be the first on your block to get our new, custom made

 

CONSOLE HOLSTER!!

 

Just let us know your make, model and year of your car and favorite equalizer, and for the low low price of $29.99 (+shipping and handling)

we will send to you a custom made holster for easy installation.

 

No more rummaging around the candy wrappers, second gas and credit card holders, CD's and cassettes or change holders. Just reach and grab!!

 

Comes with a small, laminated copy of the laws and ruling applying for our friends in the police force.

[Drylok]

I can see a small, detailed home based business being set up pretty soon.

 

"Attention, Gun Owners!!

 

You can now carry your gun in your car center console, the ILLINOIS SUPREME COURT SAID SO!!!

 

Be the first on your block to get our new, custom made

 

CONSOLE HOLSTER!!

 

Just let us know your make, model and year of your car and favorite equalizer, and for the low low price of $29.99 (+shipping and handling)

we will send to you a custom made holster for easy installation.

 

No more rummaging around the candy wrappers, second gas and credit card holders, CD's and cassettes or change holders. Just reach and grab!!

 

Comes with a small, laminated copy of the laws and ruling applying for our friends in the police force.

 

Or they can just wait till the McDonald case is ruled in SCOTUS and we pass a carry law, then they can buy a Kholster to carry on their hip

[Jeffrey]

Homemade holster inside the center console: http://www.tbssowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29918

[Chris]

I can see a small, detailed home based business being set up pretty soon.

 

"Attention, Gun Owners!!

 

You can now carry your gun in your car center console, the ILLINOIS SUPREME COURT SAID SO!!!

 

Be the first on your block to get our new, custom made

 

CONSOLE HOLSTER!!

 

Just let us know your make, model and year of your car and favorite equalizer, and for the low low price of $29.99 (+shipping and handling)

we will send to you a custom made holster for easy installation.

 

No more rummaging around the candy wrappers, second gas and credit card holders, CD's and cassettes or change holders. Just reach and grab!!

 

Comes with a small, laminated copy of the laws and ruling applying for our friends in the police force.

 

HI I'M BILLY MAYS HERE FOR CONSOLE HOLSTER!

[Drylok]

Is it glove box or console or just console? The actual words the court used were "center console"

[asfried1]

Homemade holster inside the center console: http://www.tbssowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29918

 

I didn't want to log on. But the designing a rig should be simple. Just get a regular kydex/polymer holster and a few self-tapping screws and you should be good to go. You could install a magazine pouch right next to it. I think I'll make that run to home depot now. When I'm done with it I'll post a photo.

[bob]

I would point out a couple things.

 

1. The ruling only applies to UUW. It would still be a class B misdemeanor under the wildlife act to have a gun in the console, even unloaded unless it was in a gun case as defined by the wildlife code.

 

2. Its still a class A misdemeanor to have it on public property without permission. Just don't drive through a park or a post office, or a school parking lot, etc.

[Beezil]

Hey, I'm all for small victories, and it sounds like good news, but for me, I can't see the benefit of being able to keep an unloaded firearm, with SEPERATE magazine in a center console or glove box, when I can already keep the same SEPERATE items inside a hardcase (condition 4) right on the passenger seat as I've been doing.

 

I guess if you have the fam loaded up the center console gives you some added benefit I suppose.....

 

 

I guess since I am driving alone 99-percent of the time, I've gotten in the habit.

 

now when I cross state lines into places where I may legally carry, my pistol goes condition 1 in either a car seat holster, or OWB holster.

 

can't wait for the day I can do that in illinois.

 

I will be CELEBRATING when i can do that in chicago

[asfried1]

I would point out a couple things.

 

1. The ruling only applies to UUW. It would still be a class B misdemeanor under the wildlife act to have a gun in the console, even unloaded unless it was in a gun case as defined by the wildlife code.

 

2. Its still a class A misdemeanor to have it on public property without permission. Just don't drive through a park or a post office, or a school parking lot, etc.

 

Here is the wildlife act definition of case: "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no potion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed."

 

I see your point, but my argument is that I'm converting my center console (now defined as a case/container) into a gun case. The center console will now be "a container specifically designed (by me) for the purpose of housing a gun" and the gun will be "otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun... exposed." I don't see anything in the definition that says I have to use raw materials to design and construct such a case. Would a fanny pack holster be excluded from the wildlife act definition of "case" simply because the manufacturer bought fanny packs wholesale and then modified them into holsters? Heck, I might even apply for a patent on my idea (so nobody steal it ). Let's call my setup a prototype!

 

Regarding the second issue, I'm probably in violation whenever I drive on the public roads. So, it's hard for me to take seriously.

[bob]

Here is the wildlife act definition of case: "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no potion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed."

 

I see your point, but my argument is that I'm converting my center console (now defined as a case/container) into a gun case. The center console will now be "a container specifically designed (by me) for the purpose of housing a gun" and the gun will be "otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun... exposed." I don't see anything in the definition that says I have to use raw materials to design and construct such a case. Would a fanny pack holster be excluded from the wildlife act definition of "case" simply because the manufacturer bought fanny packs wholesale and then modified them into holsters? Heck, I might even apply for a patent on my idea (so nobody steal it ). Let's call my setup a prototype!

I think you are getting real close to the line there. I am not sure which side of the line you are on. Do you want to spend $50,000 on legal fees to find out?

 

Why not just buy something that already is a "gun" case and put it inside your console and the gun inside that case?

 

Regarding the second issue, I'm probably in violation whenever I drive on the public roads. So, it's hard for me to take seriously.

Any number of people have been charged under that law. Happens occassionally when people go somewhere there is a metal detector like in court houses.

 

Its doubtful that the public places thing could be construed to extend to public roads. But a school parking lot is not out of the question. What else would they charge you with if a cop found you in a school parking lot with an unloaded gun in a case?

 

I think there is some case law that a roadway is not "lands" for most purposes. Human1957 is often helpful in finding these kind of things.

[asfried1]

Well, let's just call this a "thought experiment" for the time being.

[Molly B.]

I think you are getting real close to the line there. I am not sure which side of the line you are on. Do you want to spend $50,000 on legal fees to find out?

 

Why not just buy something that already is a "gun" case and put it inside your console and the gun inside that case?

One of the judges brought this up in the oral arguments date 5-12-09 that he could custom fit his console for a firearm and would that then violate the law because it would then be designed to hold a gun.

I think it made the plaintiff's attorney look pretty silly.

[Ashrak]

It occurs to me that Illinois has a special law directed at, and rendering illegal, custom hidden enclosures.

 

I see the following foolishness presented as a result of the attempts at end runs around individual Liberty that take place in Illinois each and every day.

 

A person is legit if they have an unloaded firearm in a center console where it could be stolen while they enter a store, keeping in mind that it is illegal to carry it on your person, but if they had a hidden place within their vehicle in which to place their firearm, they would be breaking the law.

 

This would amount to the current code making it illegal to better secure your firearm. How precious- gun control meeting government control results in firearms being less secure. Imagine that.....

[highspeed]

I thought the wildlife code only applied if you were hunting, and stopped and searched by CPO???

[45superman]

It occurs to me that Illinois has a special law directed at, and rendering illegal, custom hidden enclosures.

 

Actually, unless they've rewritten the law in a way that satisfies the Illinois Supreme Court, that law has been overturned.

 

The article referenced in that blog post is no longer available, but I'm reasonably confident that the information presented there is true.

[Ashrak]

It occurs to me that Illinois has a special law directed at, and rendering illegal, custom hidden enclosures.

 

Actually, unless they've rewritten the law in a way that satisfies the Illinois Supreme Court, that law has been overturned.

 

The article referenced in that blog post is no longer available, but I'm reasonably confident that the information presented there is true.

 

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus...mp;SessionID=76

 

Actions

Date Chamber Action

2/4/2009 Senate Filed with Secretary by Sen. Antonio Muñoz

2/4/2009 Senate First Reading

2/4/2009 Senate Referred to Assignments

2/10/2009 Senate Assigned to Judiciary

2/19/2009 Senate Do Pass Judiciary; 009-000-000

2/19/2009 Senate Placed on Calendar Order of 2nd Reading February 20, 2009

2/20/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 1 Filed with Secretary by Sen. Antonio Muñoz

2/20/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 1 Referred to Assignments

2/26/2009 Senate Added as Chief Co-Sponsor Sen. Jacqueline Y. Collins

2/26/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 2 Filed with Secretary by Sen. Antonio Muñoz

2/26/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 2 Referred to Assignments

3/18/2009 Senate Second Reading

3/18/2009 Senate Placed on Calendar Order of 3rd Reading March 19, 2009

3/18/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 1 Assignments Refers to Judiciary

3/18/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 2 Assignments Refers to Judiciary

3/19/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 1 Postponed - Judiciary

3/19/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 2 Recommend Do Adopt Judiciary; 010-000-000

4/2/2009 Senate Recalled to Second Reading

4/2/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 2 Adopted; Munoz

4/2/2009 Senate Placed on Calendar Order of 3rd Reading

4/2/2009 Senate Third Reading - Passed; 057-000-000

4/2/2009 Senate Senate Floor Amendment No. 1 Tabled Pursuant to Rule 5-4(a)

4/2/2009 House Arrived in House

4/2/2009 House Placed on Calendar Order of First Reading

4/2/2009 House Chief House Sponsor Rep. Jack D. Franks

4/2/2009 House First Reading

4/2/2009 House Referred to Rules Committee

4/14/2009 House Assigned to Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee

4/23/2009 House Do Pass / Short Debate Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee; 007-000-000

4/23/2009 House Placed on Calendar 2nd Reading - Short Debate

4/30/2009 House Second Reading - Short Debate

4/30/2009 House Placed on Calendar Order of 3rd Reading - Short Debate

5/13/2009 House Third Reading - Short Debate - Passed 115-000-000

5/13/2009 Senate Passed Both Houses

6/11/2009 Senate Sent to the Governor

8/10/2009 Senate Governor Approved

8/10/2009 Senate Effective Date January 1, 2010

8/10/2009 Senate Public Act . . . . . . . . . 96-0202

and http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts...p?Name=096-0202

 

 

Public Act 096-0202

 

SB0243 Enrolled LRB096 03507 RLC 13532 b

 

AN ACT concerning vehicles.

 

Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois,

represented in the General Assembly:

 

Section 5. The Illinois Vehicle Code is amended by changing

Section 12-612 as follows:

 

(625 ILCS 5/12-612)

Sec. 12-612. False or secret compartment in a motor

vehicle.

(a) Offenses. It is unlawful for any person:

(1) to own or operate with criminal intent any

vehicle he or she knows to contain a false or secret

compartment that is used or has been used to conceal a

firearm as prohibited by paragraph (a)(4) of Section 24-1

or paragraph (a)(1) of Section 24-1.6 of the Criminal Code

of 1961, or controlled substance as prohibited by the

Illinois Controlled Substances Act or the Methamphetamine

Control and Community Protection Act; or .

(2) to install, create, build, or fabricate in any

motor vehicle a false or secret compartment knowing that

another person intends to use the compartment to conceal a

firearm as prohibited by paragraph (a)(4) of Section 24-1

of the Criminal Code of 1961, or controlled substance as

prohibited by the Illinois Controlled Substances Act or the

Methamphetamine Control and Community Protection Act.

( Definitions. For purposes of this Section: ,

(1) "False or secret compartment" means an enclosure

integrated into a vehicle that is a modification of the

vehicle as built by the original manufacturer........

 

Effective Date: 1/1/2010

 

The date on the link you gave is 2008, this is after that. So we have just such a law, correct?

[Tvandermyde]

1. A cop or CPO trying to enforce or write you up for a wildlife violation when not engaged in hunting or violation of the code such as poaching is on thin ice -- very thin ice.

 

2. the hidden campartment law was re-written to conform with the court ruling about illegal activitiy. I testified against the first re-write as it would criminalize keeping somehting hidden that is not illegal. So the new law goes to criminal intent.

 

As an aside, you should have seen the look on the AG's office face when they walked into us oppsoing them and that buzz saw. I love it when you catch them slack jawed.

 

3. Under the UUW statute, there is no qualifier that the case be designed for a gun. It was argued and rejected. The plain language of statute says any case. Don't try to mix up the two statutes and confuse transportation with hunting.

 

The hunting stuff is left over from another era when someone else had a hand in all this stuff. It's been over 10 years and I'm still trying to fix the mess they left us with. Maybe in another 10 I'll have it about done.

[45superman]

It occurs to me that Illinois has a special law directed at, and rendering illegal, custom hidden enclosures.

 

Actually, unless they've rewritten the law in a way that satisfies the Illinois Supreme Court, that law has been overturned.

 

The article referenced in that blog post is no longer available, but I'm reasonably confident that the information presented there is true.

 

The date on the link you gave is 2008, this is after that. So we have just such a law, correct?

 

It appears so--I mentioned that possibility ("unless they've rewritten the law in a way that satisfies the Illinois Supreme Court").

 

Thanks for updating my understanding.

[Ashrak]

It occurs to me that Illinois has a special law directed at, and rendering illegal, custom hidden enclosures.

 

Actually, unless they've rewritten the law in a way that satisfies the Illinois Supreme Court, that law has been overturned.

 

The article referenced in that blog post is no longer available, but I'm reasonably confident that the information presented there is true.

 

The date on the link you gave is 2008, this is after that. So we have just such a law, correct?

 

It appears so--I mentioned that possibility ("unless they've rewritten the law in a way that satisfies the Illinois Supreme Court").

 

Thanks for updating my understanding.

We have each helped each others' understanding grow. I didn't know the old law was overturned and a new one was put in place. I just remembered reading something about it being law.

 

Hey Todd, do you see this ruling having any effect on the new law as it is to go into affect at the turn of the calender?

[RobR369]

Ok, Maybe I alittle slow here, but under the current law wasnt you able to carry a weapon as long as it was enclosed and unloaded already? I understand that this just clarifys the law, but now do you not need to have it in a case as long as its in center console or glove box and still unloaded? Seeing I have a PA and NH permits to carry and able to carry in Indiana, when crossing over to Illinois, all i have to do is remove my weapon from the holster, unload it and lay it in the center console. I no longer have to put it in a zipped up case, before setting it in the center console? Just trying to understand clearly, thanks.

[45superman]

I wonder what was changed in the law, to make it (the proponents of the law hope) more palatable to the Illinois Supreme Court. My eyes would catch on fire and my brain would melt before I ever waded through enough of the legalese to figure that out.

 

I suppose we can't rule out a challenge to this version of the law, too.

[abolt243]

Hey!!!! 45 Super!!!! Good to have you back amongst us!!!

 

AB

[45superman]

Seeing I have a PA and NH permits to carry and able to carry in Indiana, when crossing over to Illinois, all i have to do is remove my weapon from the holster, unload it and lay it in the center console. I no longer have to put it in a zipped up case, before setting it in the center console? Just trying to understand clearly, thanks.

 

That's the gist of it, RobR.