Sig Legion vs Wilson Combat Beretta 92 VS CZ 75 Shadow 2

[TRJ]

I really have a hankering for a new blaster. Can't decide.

 

Any feedback on the above listed guns? This isn't a carry gun and I'm not a gun gamer.

[JDW]

TRJ,

 

You can't go wrong with the Shadow 2. The quality in the craftsmanship is undeniable. They are amazing pistols all the way around. That's my 2 cents.

 

BTW, I have a hankering for a few new blaster's as well, unfortunately, my wallet doesn't agree with me, nor does the lack of space in my safe.

 

Happy shopping

[DD123]

A vote for CZ from me. The Wilson is way overpriced for what you're actually getting.

 

I don't know enough about the Sig, but you can't go wrong with that CZ.

[jagt48]

I want a CZ pretty bad, but only because I own the main three Sig P-series pistols (P220, P226, and P229). I love all three, but the CZ is calling to me. I've shot some run-of-the-mill Berettas and wasn't impressed. I have no experience with the Wilson, so I can't help you there. I'm actually considering changing my USPSA and 3-Gun pistols to Sig just because I can't get used to Glocks, no matter how many I own. CZ seems like a solid pistol, and is a very robust and often copied JMB design.

[chicagoresident]

Wilson combat is a bit of a cult following. I love their 1911 mags, but beyond that it's debatable that you get what you pay for. Their Beretta stuff is by far their least expensive offering, but your still covering the cost of a new or used Beretta that they replace parts and modify. Again, not a lot of bang for your buck.

 

Sigs quality has been questionable lately, beyond their trigger debacle. It seems like the difference between entry level Sigs and high end is coatings of questionable taste and quality and some limited edition moniker.

 

So that really leaves CZ. I have one of their 1911's from their DW offerings and its one of the best values for the price. Materials and fit and finish that rival the big 1911 players in the $3k range. Everything CZ makes in the mid range price point rivals the custom stuff at the high end. Quality materials and good hand fitting. I really want to get the tactical sport orange.

 

They are probably the most underrated target/comp pistols due to the marketing dollars Sig, WC, and Kimber spends.

[solareclipse2]

Funny you mention all 3 of those pistols. They've been on my short list for a while.

 

Last year I got the P226 Legion. It's a great gun. I've put over 2000 rounds through it in the last year, which isn't really a lot by many standards but those two thousand rounds were some of the dirtiest, cheapest, steel cased rounds there are. That should say a lot, that shooting Brown Bear, Tula, Wolf, Hot Shot, and more have gone through that gun in practice, competition, and training without a hiccup.

 

The Legion modifications are great. The sights are great in day or night. The grip ergos (for me at least) are perfect and with the undercut trigger guard I notice an improvement in my grip and shooting. The G10 grips themselves are slim and grippy. I'm not dropping the gun.

 

The Gray guns trigger is smooth on the DA pull and not terribly heavy compared to standard Sig triggers and breaks clean. The SA trigger pull is crisp, light, smooth, and has a short reset. It's really everything you want your trigger to be.

 

 

I haven't had a chance to see the CZ Shadow 2 in person let alone shoot or hold one... I have to work on changing that.

 

The Wilson Combat Beretta. I've tried to buy one at least twice now and the deal fell through each time. I've managed to get to hold it and dry fire it. It's different than my Sig, that's for sure. Not to say that it's bad in any way, but if you're accustomed to the Sig then it's different. My honest impression is that the trigger is not as good as my Legion, everything else on the gun is adequate. I don't know if the gun commands the $1200 price it goes for. I guess I'd have to put 2000 rounds through it to make that decision.

[BeardswithoutOperators]

A vote for CZ from me. The Wilson is way overpriced for what you're actually getting.

 

I don't know enough about the Sig, but you can't go wrong with that CZ.

 

+1

 

I'm no competitive shooter, but from my experience with a CZ, it feels like cheating. No recoil, great ergos, and NATO certified for reliability. You're going to kick yourself for not getting one after spending $3k on a fancy 1911 and then shooting your buddy's $800 shadow 2.

[JDW]

A vote for CZ from me. The Wilson is way overpriced for what you're actually getting.

 

I don't know enough about the Sig, but you can't go wrong with that CZ.

 

 

I agree with DD on this. I've shot a fair number of Wilson's over the last year. My opinion is that the Shadow 2 is a much better shooter, and with right grips, a pretty sassy looking pistol. As far as Wilson being over priced, that's all a matter of what you like and what you want, only the buyer can decide what's worth it or not. If you want the WillyC, go for it.

[chicagoresident]

Here's the issue about the Sig Legion's PVD coating. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/13/sig-sauer-legion-pvd-finish-concerns/

 

The only other company I know that uses PVD is Magnum Research/Karh on the Deagle and Kimber on BBQ guns. Those aren't exactly high volume shooters or carry guns so you don't hear about the issue on those guns. It's debatable if the issue is in the coating or Sigs QA. IMO knowing this coating from other industries its a mix of both, this coating is very hard to make durable with consistency.

 

It's similar to chrome, except instead of an electrochemical process it's an electromagnetic process (vacuum chamber and a microwave gun). When it wears it flakes off like chrome.

 

If it's not stainless most of the industry uses some form of nitrocarbon coating https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizingwhich has a much better proven reliability record. It's like gun blue on steroids.

[solareclipse2]

Here's the issue about the Sig Legion's PVD coating. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/13/sig-sauer-legion-pvd-finish-concerns/

 

 

That was an issue with the early run of pistols. The later releases don't have finish problems.My finish was complete on the gun, no missing spots and has been in and out of my holster a hundred times and the finish has held up.

[DD123]

 

A vote for CZ from me. The Wilson is way overpriced for what you're actually getting.

 

I don't know enough about the Sig, but you can't go wrong with that CZ.

 

 

I agree with DD on this. I've shot a fair number of Wilson's over the last year. My opinion is that the Shadow 2 is a much better shooter, and with right grips, a pretty sassy looking pistol. As far as Wilson being over priced, that's all a matter of what you like and what you want, only the buyer can decide what's worth it or not. If you want the WillyC, go for it.

 

Their Beretta is definitely a nice gun, but taking that gun and comparing it to a Shadow 2 with some tuning done to it, there really isn't a comparison between the two. Obviously if the gun is going to be used as a defensive gun, then you can forgo some of the tuning on the Shadow 2 because you really don't want to get too crazy, but overall I think the CZ is a better choice. They're both great guns, it's just a matter of figuring out what you want to do with them, and going from there. I personally prefer the ergo's on the CZ over the Beretta. I have a 92 FS, and it's really like gripping a tree trunk. I know us American's are bigger than Europeans but good lord.

[yurimodin]

you might want to look at this if your considering a legion..... https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U

[TRJ]

The Wilson Beretta is supposed to be a few mm thinner in grip circumference than a standard 92FS. The deletion of the safety and conversion to decock only is a huge difference in making a 92 practical as a fighting gun because it prevents you from flipping the trigger kill switch while running your slide overhand. The front sight is dovetailed instead of fixed.

 

I found a Brigadier model in Inox finish for $650. I was thinking about getting that and sending it to Wilson for pretty much every mod they have on their list.

I also found a .22 conversion slide, barrel and magazine for $300 that would make this the perfect training gun. I'd be able to break in new shooters on.22 then let them shoot the same gun with 9mm as they progress. I introduce a few antigunner and gun virgin types to shooting every year.

 

The CZ is different. I've never touched or held one much less fired one. But word on the street is it's a 9mm that shoots like a .22. That sounds too awesome if real. But it also sounds too good to be true. I really need to shoot one.

Based on feedback here, sure seems like the way to go.

 

The Sig seems gimmicky. But I respect the grey guns trigger in it. I like the Legion branding...stupid marketing,I know. I like it anyway. I always wanted a 226 too, but never made it happen.

 

I'll be honest in that I was really leaning toward the Wilson until I posted. Now I'm going to have to find and shoot a Shadow before I decide.

[solareclipse2]

you might want to look at this if your considering a legion..... https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U

 

You going to soak your $1200 pistol in water and pack it with mud and sand? Those scenarios will literally never happen to you in anything less than a deliberate attempt to make your gun malfunction. That video is horse poo designed to get views on youtube. I don't put stock in any of those "torture test" videos that Mac does, and I'd certainly never use one to convince someone not to buy a gun.

 

 

The Wilson Beretta is supposed to be a few mm thinner in grip circumference than a standard 92FS. The deletion of the safety and conversion to decock only is a huge difference in making a 92 practical as a fighting gun because it prevents you from flipping the trigger kill switch while running your slide overhand. The front sight is dovetailed instead of fixed.

 

I found a Brigadier model in Inox finish for $650. I was thinking about getting that and sending it to Wilson for pretty much every mod they have on their list.

I also found a .22 conversion slide, barrel and magazine for $300 that would make this the perfect training gun. I'd be able to break in new shooters on.22 then let them shoot the same gun with 9mm as they progress. I introduce a few antigunner and gun virgin types to shooting every year.

 

The CZ is different. I've never touched or held one much less fired one. But word on the street is it's a 9mm that shoots like a .22. That sounds too awesome if real. But it also sounds too good to be true. I really need to shoot one.

Based on feedback here, sure seems like the way to go.

 

The Sig seems gimmicky. But I respect the grey guns trigger in it. I like the Legion branding...stupid marketing,I know. I like it anyway. I always wanted a 226 too, but never made it happen.

 

I'll be honest in that I was really leaning toward the Wilson until I posted. Now I'm going to have to find and shoot a Shadow before I decide.

 

The Wilson Combat Beretta is decocker only so you don't have that stupid "trigger kill" so it has that going for it. You can spend a ton of money to have one customized that's for sure.

 

The Shadow 2 was made to be an IPSC production gun and everyone I've talked to that has one or anyone online who has one says that it's really great at that but otherwise it's not all that special. I still want one because it's pretty.

[TRJ]

you might want to look at this if your considering a legion..... https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U

His testing has killed several VP9s (my favorite striker gun) and stopped a 92A1 too. Fact is, my guns are only likey to get used in my environment...pavement, grass, & gravel. Only one gun, some weird off brand with little support here, every cleared his tests unscathed.

[chicagoresident]

you might want to look at this if your considering a legion..... https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U

I assume if looking at these 3 pistols the intent is a target pistol, maybe a bedside safe pistol when not at the range.

 

That being said, target pistols are going to have a tighter slide to frame and barrel lockup, more precise feedramp, full support of the casing, and light smooth triggers. It's what makes them more accurate. It's why they cost the money they do. Of course there going to fail any test that shoves dirt into the moving parts.

 

These "torture tests" are shot to make Glock fan boys feel superiority to guns costing 2x or more the price. Sure, with an EDC gun you do sacrifice a bit of accuracy for reliability. Glock is a good example because they have very loose slide to barrel lockup, a feedramp that will shoot anything, and case support so bad it will put smiley faces on the brass of hot loads. It's not bad, per say, just a different use case.

 

So without watching it I'm guessing the Sig knockoff machined with wider tolerances probably ***** all over the real Sig that's made with closer tolerances.

 

There was one of those wartime gun anecdotes about GI's in the know picking 1911's that rattled when you shook them because they were going to be more reliable in battlefield conditions. Same idea (of course most of these wartime anecdotes are made up and passed down generations as truths, but some do have some truths to them).

[solareclipse2]

 

So without watching it I'm guessing the Sig knockoff machined with wider tolerances probably ***** all over the real Sig that's made with closer tolerances.

 

Yep. That $600 Sig knock off was made to look like a complete and total indestructible rockstar and Sig's top of the line pistol (at twice the price) was made to look like complete and total garbage.

[thobart]

I have a buddy with a shadow that I can get a hold of if you want to try it. The trigger on this one has been done up so it is not stock but will give you an idea of what the gun is capable of.

[yurimodin]

all I was getting at is if your in a struggle with a BG you never know if your going to end up grappling on the ground etc and its good to know how a weapon handles dirt etc.

 

I used to be a big believer in the whole loose tolerances=reliability thing until I watched inrangetv mud test a whole bunch of different military weapons........Mosin Nagant's, AK's, SKS's, M1, and M1a ALL immediately choked all over themselves. The tight tolerances on AR's and Mouser's kept the dirt out and they still functioned. The AR's really surprised me big time as I always believed the loose AK=reliability mantra.

[TRJ]

all I was getting at is if your in a struggle with a BG you never know if your going to end up grappling on the ground etc and its good to know how a weapon handles dirt etc.

 

I used to be a big believer in the whole loose tolerances=reliability thing until I watched inrangetv mud test a whole bunch of different military weapons........Mosin Nagant's, AK's, SKS's, M1, and M1a ALL immediately choked all over themselves. The tight tolerances on AR's and Mouser's kept the dirt out and they still functioned. The AR's really surprised me big time as I always believed the loose AK=reliability mantra.

I appreciate the thought you put into it.

 

Honestly, If I ever go to ground with a BG there's a good chance I'm toast anyway. I'm 5' 10" and over 200 but I'm fighting a health battle that leaves me about as strong as a 12 year old kid on my good days. On bad days? Well we call them bad days for a reason.

 

Anyhoo, this pickup will be for a range toy/house gun.

[ArmedWithKnowledge]

Shadow, hands down.