FYI Postal Property

[supprmann]

I know the list of prohibited places is very extensive. But be careful and take special note of Postal Property. It is regulated by the USPS. There is no provision for even storing your firearm in your vehicle on their property. I see this heavily discussed in other state's CC forums. Also, you will rarely....if ever see this posted. The only thing you may see will be the typical "No Firearms Allowed" signage.

 

 

Poster 158 - Possession of Fire Arms and Other Dangerous Weapons on Postal Service Property is Prohibited by Law December 2005

PSN 7610-03-000-3949

 

 

Possessing a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a federal facility for other than official purposes, causing such a weapon to be present, or attempting to do so are punishable by a fine, imprisonment for up to 1 year, or both.

 

If the prohibited weapon is intended to be used to commit a crime, the penalty is an increased fine, imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both.

Title 18, United States Code, Section 930

 

No person on U.S. Postal Service property may carry or store firearms,

explosives, or other dangerous or deadly weapons, either openly or

concealed, except for official purposes.

Title 39, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 232.1

 

 

 

Report all firearms violations immediately to the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.

[supprmann]

BTW.....my reason for posting this is because it isn't governed by the ILGA, and people will think it's ok to simply store the firearm locked in the car.

[RacerDave6]

Check the case in CO this past summer. You might think differently.

 

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[supprmann]

I know about the Colorado ruling but it was not a nationwide decision. It was based on a single office that provides no delivery service.

[supprmann]

I stand corrected.......after further research and additional information, they sited Heller in the decision, and they ARE in fact okay to be stored in POVs. Request the admins remove the thread....

[flw]

I have a video on all the no carry locations by the State but as mentioned there are Federal locations that are barred by law but at least it is the same from State to State. Video at

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkpnJRKnRU0

[GAS3987]

That makes me feel safer knowing then while at the post office, any thug who comes there must leave his firearm in his vehicle, too.

[cola490]

That makes me feel safer knowing then while at the post office, any thug who comes there must leave his firearm in his vehicle, too.

The way I understand it is that you cannot even drive into the parking lot of a Post Office with a weapon, if I'm wrong please correct me.

[michaeljoefox]

That makes me feel safer knowing then while at the post office, any thug who comes there must leave his firearm in his vehicle, too.

The way I understand it is that you cannot even drive into the parking lot of a Post Office with a weapon, if I'm wrong please correct me.

 

To further this question; in my area, the post office is in a strip mall with 12 or so other businesses.....

Citing the FAQ, would this still apply with the USPS?

Q24. If there is a prohibited entity on one side of a parking lot and a non-prohibited are on the other, can I carry loaded in the parking lot to the non-prohibited entity?

A24. Yes, the shared parking lot doesn’t preclude you from carrying. The only way you can’t carry loaded is if it is a dedicated parking lot for the prohibited entity which would have control. Then, you can carry unloaded/enclosed or leave the weapon in your car.

[cola490]

I'm sorry, I'm still not clear if you can carry into a dedicated Post Office parking lot.

 

I know you can't carry in a Post Office, the question is about even having a weapon in the car, loaded or not.

[lockman]

Based on the Postal wording on the sign and USC 18 you would be legal. There is no doubt that they want it left unresolved as to a dig unitive answer. When there is a doubt, they can use a potential felony as a threat.

 

They is no cut and dry all circumstances answer, there is only case law which is replete with convictions of what were unlawful possession/use regardless of postal property and lots of plea deals.

 

The Colorado case is one of the first to address this issue and even they did not rule on the lawful purpose exemption. They very nature of self defense is lawful.

[GarandFan]

This decision was at the Colorado district level. I don't think the government appealed the decision. So ... technically it holds only within the Colorado district court jurisdiction, even though the CNN headline read "Guns OK in post office parking lots, federal judge rules."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...ns-post-office/

http://armsandthelaw...e_rules_gun.php

 

And for a contrary view ... http://smartgunlaws.org/extreme-district-court-decision-allows-guns-in-post-office-parking-lot/

 

So, as is usual with these things, it comes down to a personal decision. As for me, I've done so for years, and have never lost a minute of sleep worrying about it.

[cola490]

This decision was at the Colorado district level. I don't think the government appealed the decision. So ... technically it holds only within the Colorado district court jurisdiction, even though the CNN headline read "Guns OK in post office parking lots, federal judge rules."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...ns-post-office/

http://armsandthelaw...e_rules_gun.php

 

So, as is usual with these things, it comes down to a personal decision. As for me, I've done so for years, and have never lost a minute of sleep worrying about it.

I would really like to nail this down, if possible. The reason being, I know there will be some local pols looking to discredit the CC laws and it seems that checking goings and comings at PO's would be easy to observe.

 

Even using the drive thru mailbox.

[GarandFan]

It is "nailed down." Bonidy holds in the Colorado district (entire state of Colorado). If you live outside Colorado, the decision does not affect you.

 

The statute, from the Bonidy decision:

 

In 1972, the Postal Service enacted 39 C.F.R. § 232.1(l), which provides:

Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

 

A violation of this regulation may result in a fine, imprisonment up to thirty days, or both.

[DoverGunner]

It is "nailed down." Bonidy holds in the Colorado district (entire state of Colorado). If you live outside Colorado, the decision does not affect you.

 

The statute, from the Bonidy decision:

 

In 1972, the Postal Service enacted 39 C.F.R. § 232.1(l), which provides:

Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

 

A violation of this regulation may result in a fine, imprisonment up to thirty days, or both.

And does that not set a Precedent ????

[supprmann]

It is "nailed down." Bonidy holds in the Colorado district (entire state of Colorado). If you live outside Colorado, the decision does not affect you.

 

The statute, from the Bonidy decision:

 

In 1972, the Postal Service enacted 39 C.F.R. § 232.1(l), which provides:

Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

 

A violation of this regulation may result in a fine, imprisonment up to thirty days, or both.

 

This is the reason I posted this. I'm in agreement with you. But, depending on what you read, the only part of the decision being appealed is the part about carrying inside the post office. I'm hoping someone on here can help clear it up more. I've seen this argued somewhat vigorously in other forums and they came your conclusion.

[Frank]

Just a reminder that this will probably apply to all federal property where firearms are prohibited. And as it is federal property, they probably won't bother to post the ISP's standardized sign and will just use their existing signs.

 

Another area to think about are military bases. The Rock Island Arsenal has bridges between Davenport, IA and Rock Island, IL. But there is a strip of land between those two bridges that is actually military land. It is a public thoroughfare that thousands of people traverse every day. But possession of firearms is strictly prohibited on this road, where people have been arrested for possession and had their firearms confiscated.

 

-- Frank

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

FWIW Niles branch had no posting, no signs, nothing saying no guns allowed, as of last week. Just thought I would share.

[jlowrie]

I seem to be able to pick up C&R handguns at the local USPS without a problem. I even checked with the postmaster and he doesn't have an issue with my signing the package slip over to my wife for her to pick up. As long as she does not open the package everything is kosher.

 

http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2011/pb22321/html/updt_001.htm

 

Wouldn't carry to the post office though... a can of worms that I'm not interested in opening personally.

[Booxone]

If you can, just use a mailbox store. Won't have to deal with post office. I know not everyone can avoid it unfortunately.

[supprmann]

Just a reminder that this will probably apply to all federal property where firearms are prohibited. And as it is federal property, they probably won't bother to post the ISP's standardized sign and will just use their existing signs.

 

Another area to think about are military bases. The Rock Island Arsenal has bridges between Davenport, IA and Rock Island, IL. But there is a strip of land between those two bridges that is actually military land. It is a public thoroughfare that thousands of people traverse every day. But possession of firearms is strictly prohibited on this road, where people have been arrested for possession and had their firearms confiscated.

 

-- Frank

 

It's not quite the same. On some federal property, you can at least transport. You cannot even have it the car on postal property.

[cola490]

FWIW Niles branch had no posting, no signs, nothing saying no guns allowed, as of last week. Just thought I would share.

I believe that Federal Buildings do not have to post.

[supprmann]

I seem to be able to pick up C&R handguns at the local USPS without a problem. I even checked with the postmaster and he doesn't have an issue with my signing the package slip over to my wife for her to pick up. As long as she does not open the package everything is kosher.

 

http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2011/pb22321/html/updt_001.htm

 

Wouldn't carry to the post office though... a can of worms that I'm not interested in opening personally.

 

Picking up, to me falls under official business.......but you're not carrying in as in conceal carry.

[Frank]

Just a reminder that this will probably apply to all federal property where firearms are prohibited. And as it is federal property, they probably won't bother to post the ISP's standardized sign and will just use their existing signs.

 

Another area to think about are military bases. The Rock Island Arsenal has bridges between Davenport, IA and Rock Island, IL. But there is a strip of land between those two bridges that is actually military land. It is a public thoroughfare that thousands of people traverse every day. But possession of firearms is strictly prohibited on this road, where people have been arrested for possession and had their firearms confiscated.

 

-- Frank

 

It's not quite the same. On some federal property, you can at least transport. You cannot even have it the car on postal property.

 

Correct. As I said, this will probably apply to federal property where firearms are prohibited. As I tell my students in class, not all federal property automatically bans possession or carrying (National Parks, for example), but until I know for sure, I will park on the street if possible if I need to go in to a federal office.

 

-- Frank

[Indigo]

It is "nailed down." Bonidy holds in the Colorado district (entire state of Colorado). If you live outside Colorado, the decision does not affect you.

 

The statute, from the Bonidy decision:

 

In 1972, the Postal Service enacted 39 C.F.R. § 232.1(l), which provides:

Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

 

A violation of this regulation may result in a fine, imprisonment up to thirty days, or both.

And does that not set a Precedent ????

 

Only in the Colorado District. Unless/Until the ruling is appealed and if the appellate court rules in agreement with the district court, there is no application of this decision to other Federal jurisdictions, and then only to the jurisdictions within the appellate circuit. Only when/if this ruling were to be appealed to SCOTUS would that decision apply to the entire U.S., including Illinois.

[bob]

I seem to be able to pick up C&R handguns at the local USPS without a problem. I even checked with the postmaster and he doesn't have an issue with my signing the package slip over to my wife for her to pick up. As long as she does not open the package everything is kosher.

 

http://about.usps.co...ml/updt_001.htm

 

Wouldn't carry to the post office though... a can of worms that I'm not interested in opening personally.

 

picking up guns is an official purpose.

[Tominator]

OK, so is USPS property Federal property? It is not owned by the government. If it is not Federal Property then they will have proprietary rules.

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

FWIW Niles branch had no posting, no signs, nothing saying no guns allowed, as of last week. Just thought I would share.

I believe that Federal Buildings do not have to post.

I am not a lawyer but my interpretation of federal law is the exact opposite. But I have been wrong before.

[xd9subcompact]

If they are prohibiting the carry of a firearm, they must post.

 

http://www.handgunla.../states/usa.pdf

 

Title 18 - Crimes And Criminal Procedure

Part I - Crimes

Chapter 44 – Firearms

Sec. 930. Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in Federal Facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

( b.) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

( c) Omitted for space considerations here

(d) Omitted for space considerations here

(e) Omitted for space considerations here

(f) Omitted for space considerations here

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.

(3) Omitted for space considerations here

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and ( b.) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

 

And I do not believe that the Post Office is a federal facility. I believe they are a separate entity with their own rules. My local P.O. does not own the building. They share the lot with a law office, so they don't have exclusive rights to the lot. There is no sign outdoors. After entering the building, you can't see the gun sign until you turn the corner and get closer to the boxes, even then you must turn and look behind you.

[TacticalVideo]

I seem to be able to pick up C&R handguns at the local USPS without a problem. I even checked with the postmaster and he doesn't have an issue with my signing the package slip over to my wife for her to pick up. As long as she does not open the package everything is kosher.

 

http://about.usps.co...ml/updt_001.htm

 

Wouldn't carry to the post office though... a can of worms that I'm not interested in opening personally.

 

picking up guns is an official purpose.

true ONLY if your are an FFL. Others are restricted from possessing firearms in a post office!