Jump to content


Photo

Chicago Machine Might Ignore 7th Circuit?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
69 replies to this topic

#1 mstrat

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,394 posts
  • Joined: 27-September 10

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:21 AM

http://capitolfax.co...l-court-ruling/

Prosecutors in Chicago are telling state lawmakers they can essentially ignore a federal court ruling and not legalize concealed carry in Illinois.
The Illinois House on Tuesday held the first of two statewide hearings on how to legally allow people to carry a gun in the state. Illinois is the only state in the nation that bars anyone from carrying a pistol outside their home. In December, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said Illinois must change that.

But Paul Castiglione, policy director for the Cook County State’s Attorney’s office, told lawmakers there is no need for a new law.

“Only the Illinois Supreme Court can declare a statue from (the legislature) unconstitutional,” Castiglione told lawmakers Tuesday. “I heard (someone) say that after 180 days our UUW (unlawful use of weapon) statute is unconstitutional. Not so.”


ProtectIllinois.org: Share this link to teach others about RTC in IL

#2 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 8,185 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:38 AM

Right...

I think we've been through that already with a few issues.

The way our country is set up, the constitution applies to all states and govermental bodies. We've been through this before with segregation, Jim Crow laws and similar things.

But anyway, the Illinois Supreme Court is not going to oppose the CA7 - Castiglione is out of touch. His comments weren't even coordinated with IL AG - IMO, he's just out there on his own saying crazy things.
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#3 mstrat

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,394 posts
  • Joined: 27-September 10

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:48 AM

Castiglione is out of touch. His comments weren't even coordinated with IL AG - IMO, he's just out there on his own saying crazy things.


After doing some more reading, it sounds like this might be precisely what's going on.
ProtectIllinois.org: Share this link to teach others about RTC in IL

#4 CGT

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 387 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 13

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:50 AM

I agree. They may pass const. Carry and not do anything and have chicago ban all guns or limit to the fullest extent possible by a city or county law or ordinance.

Clinton



#5 Bitter

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Joined: 02-December 08

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

Any first year law student can tell you that federal courts can strike down state laws. Where do they did up these flunkies? Does he also think Roe v. Wade is null and void?
_________________

Nothing contained in this post is to be construed as legal advice. Any stated opinions of law are my own. Contact a lawyer for an analysis of any legal rights or obligations you might have.

#6 Jeffrey

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,495 posts
  • Joined: 10-January 08

Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

Crook county can't let go of the idea, keep lying and eventually they will believe it. They are also not afraid to go to court only to lose and have to pay people like the NRA, with tax payers money, as has been proven a few times now.
...and justice for all

YOUR WALLET, the only place Democrats care to drill

#7 Stevepk

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 442 posts
  • Joined: 29-July 09

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

How about a massive armed paraded downtown Chicago on the 9th of June.
MSGT - USAF Retired - Command & Control Tech. (Command Post)

#8 moon

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,059 posts
  • Joined: 11-July 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:04 AM

How about a massive armed paraded downtown Chicago on the 9th of June.


lol...Sounds like an interesting thought.
Member: Illinois State Rifle Association & National Rifle Association.

#9 Joebie

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,335 posts
  • Joined: 03-January 13

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:07 AM

AK-15. lulz
The naivety of few effect the majority.

#10 JPT

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 13

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

I was half way listening to this while at work. When this guy started talking I started listening closely, then I started laughing.

#11 VVelox

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Joined: 07-September 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:11 AM

How about a massive armed paraded downtown Chicago on the 9th of June.


This would be very interesting to see. Although being a local and having to live here, the idea of participating slightly unnerves me when it comes to what the potential blow back may be.

To pull it off, I think we would really need a notably large crowd involved in it to possibly avoid any issues with people being hassled.

#12 vess1

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,757 posts
  • Joined: 13-June 04

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:14 AM

I didn't catch the whole video feed from that hearing a couple days ago but I did catch the part where that guy was talking. Several House reps had questions for him after his comments. They actually got on him pretty good and all but implied that he was a fool for thinking these things. One called his thinking "dangerous" and recommended that he go back and discuss the issue with other state's attorneys to be sure they're all in agreement.

The Cook Co. states attorney continued to defy them and say that Chicago will continue to prosecute UUW after June 9th because we're waiting to hear from the IL supreme court concerning some other case to settle this.
Phelps grilled him last and asked him if he truly believes there will not be Constitutional carry in IL after June 9th. Phelps also asked him a couple times if he would go on the record as saying that this situation will not happen and if Cook Co. was going to be willing to risk the lawsuits that would come as a result of their actions. He did not agree but would not commit. Then he recommended that if they were going to pass something that it would be in our best interest for them to pass a may issue bill, similar to NY and CA.
He also went on to say that he believed every Cook Co. resident should have to go through Gary McCarthy and be approved to get a permit. I'm sure Gary would get right on top of that pile of 75k people or more.

#13 C0untZer0

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 8,185 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

Castiglione is the perfect example of how patronage jobs, cronyism and nepotism destroy government. He holds a position as policy director for the Cook County State’s Attorney’s office, but as someone else has pointed out - a first year law student has a better understanding of the law than Castiglione.

Being inept and incompetent is bad enough but making statements to law makers that are erroneous and misleading is even worse.

You wonder how Chicago keeps getting itself into these situations where it loses one lawsuit after another?

Well - it's because people like Castiglione infest Chicago and Cook County government at all levels.
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

#14 NakPPI

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:18 AM

Guys, he is right in terms of court precedent, Moore is only persuasive as to State courts. However, the state is a party to the Complaint and will be enjoined from enforcement. That's the step in his legal reasoning that he neglected. Again, he's engaging in serious legal mental masturbation if he thinks that Cook County States attorney can still enforce UUW after the State was enjoined from enforcement...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#15 NakPPI

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:24 AM

'nuff said.


Nicolas Paul Castiglione

Date of Admission as Lawyer by Illinois Supreme Court: November 10, 2011

Registered Business Address:

Cook County State's Attorney's Office 28 North Clark Street, Suite 300 Chicago, IL 60602-2826


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#16 SILmama

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 265 posts
  • Joined: 29-January 13

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:24 AM

Every grade and high school student who graduates in Illinois must pass a Constitution test. Guess he didn't graduate.
”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.” ~Daniel Webster

#17 TyGuy

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 6,045 posts
  • Joined: 10-November 09

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:32 AM

No carry bill passes, no local ordinances are in place come June 9th. June 10th a group of 10 shows up downtown Chicago openly carrying AR-15s. They are promptly arrested. Fast forward 5 years, all 10 win multi-million dollar settlements from the city, police departments, SA, etc... for violating their civil rights.
ILSP Approved CCW Instructor
NRA Endowment Member
ISRA Member
GOA Member

Buy my stuff!

My favorite post ----- Walmart Thread ----- Ammo Alert Thread ---- Daily Deals Thread

#18 illinisnare

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 282 posts
  • Joined: 11-March 08

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:35 AM

If you would like to see more of Mr. Castiglione, he argued on behalf of Cook County on the Wilson v Cook County case at the IL Supreme Court. I think he's hillarious. His arguments start around the 21 minute mark.




#19 illinisnare

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 282 posts
  • Joined: 11-March 08

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

Paul's brother or father, Frank Castiglione is an Associate Judge in Cook County Circuit Court.

#20 snooter

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 616 posts
  • Joined: 16-November 07

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

for a moment i thought that was grandpa on the munsters

protection of the public at large..now isnt that what CCW is hopefully to accomplish..the guys logic is asnine

Edited by snooter, 21 February 2013 - 10:01 AM.


#21 DjachDjach

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 669 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 13

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:47 AM

... He also went on to say that he believed every Cook Co. resident should have to go through Gary McCarthy and be approved to get a permit. I'm sure Gary would get right on top of that pile of 75k people or more.


Yeah, right... Garry McCarthy! The same IDIOT who stated that "Second Amendment supporters are guilty of corruption...!" But yet, there's NO "corruption" whatsoever in Chicago politics! Riiiiight...!
Djach Djach
NRA * ISRA * GOA * SAF

#22 oneshot

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,725 posts
  • Joined: 16-March 07

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:50 AM

Guys, he is right in terms of court precedent, Moore is only persuasive as to State courts. However, the state is a party to the Complaint and will be enjoined from enforcement. That's the step in his legal reasoning that he neglected. Again, he's engaging in serious legal mental masturbation if he thinks that Cook County States attorney can still enforce UUW after the State was enjoined from enforcement...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


That's the track of thinking I kept going down, but he's trying to persuade the state legislature that they don't have to do anything, that the federal ruling is not binding on state law and thus they should act as if nothing happened. One comment I saw elsewhere was that the LEO's making arrests on UUW after it drops dead would lose their Qualified Immunity, which protects them from personally from liability in the course of their duties from violating a persons civil rights.

Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. - Andrew Fletcher 1698


#23 Hooch

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 94 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:53 AM

"If we open our mouths, every politician in cook county would be on a rock pile".........Al Capone
"That SOB is right".................Mayor of Chicago

#24 abolt243

    Tim Bowyer

  • Moderator
  • 11,314 posts
  • Joined: 30-April 07

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

'nuff said.


Nicolas Paul Castiglione

Date of Admission as Lawyer by Illinois Supreme Court: November 10, 2011

Registered Business Address:

Cook County State's Attorney's Office 28 North Clark Street, Suite 300 Chicago, IL 60602-2826


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



So, Mr. Castiglione has exactly 1 year and 3 months of experience? Or he's only been able to plead before the Supreme Court for that time frame? He certainly looks like he's been out of law school for a while, unless this is a second or third career. At any rate, he argued Wilson two months after the date you quote in your post.
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams

Luke 11:21 - "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed." NASB


#25 NakPPI

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:31 AM


'nuff said.


Nicolas Paul Castiglione

Date of Admission as Lawyer by Illinois Supreme Court: November 10, 2011

Registered Business Address:

Cook County State's Attorney's Office 28 North Clark Street, Suite 300 Chicago, IL 60602-2826


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



So, Mr. Castiglione has exactly 1 year and 3 months of experience? Or he's only been able to plead before the Supreme Court for that time frame? He certainly looks like he's been out of law school for a while, unless this is a second or third career. At any rate, he argued Wilson two months after the date you quote in your post.


Yes, he was admitted to practice law on that date. He has been an attorney since 11/10/11...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#26 TomKoz

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,513 posts
  • Joined: 04-February 10

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

. , ".... he's engaging in serious legal mental masturbation ..."


THAT paints a sad picture !!

Edited by TomKoz, 21 February 2013 - 10:47 AM.

Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!

#27 NakPPI

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 11

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

. , ".... he's engaging in serious legal mental masturbation ..."


THAT paints a sad picture !!


I can't help myself, but that is what this is. He's spinning around legal arguments in his head but not "completing" the thought.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#28 kevinmcc

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,500 posts
  • Joined: 16-December 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

Chicago and Crook County are taking the stance that the 7th's decision is only an advisory and has no effect on law.

They beleive that they can do as they please even after the 180 days are up, that means making thier own laws to prohibit carry.

Chicago and Crook County apparently is more than happy to waste tax dollars on litigation.
Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, NRA
Life Member, Oath Keepers
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation

#29 oneshot

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,725 posts
  • Joined: 16-March 07

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

Chicago and Crook County are taking the stance that the 7th's decision is only an advisory and has no effect on law.

They beleive that they can do as they please even after the 180 days are up, that means making thier own laws to prohibit carry.

Chicago and Crook County apparently is more than happy to waste tax dollars on litigation.


Not if the General Assembly changes the law and the Governor signs off on it. We'll see how bold he's willing to be, I haven't heard any similar rhetoric from him.

btw - Will UUW and AUUW automatically be rescinded from the books or does there need to be a formal repeal?

Edited by oneshot, 21 February 2013 - 11:03 AM.

Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave. - Andrew Fletcher 1698


#30 skinnyb82

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,854 posts
  • Joined: 07-November 12

Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

CA7's decision is only advisory? Ok well in that case, IL laws are just "advisory." They can go ahead and violate peoples' civil rights and see what happens. The county will be writing massive checks to settle tens, maybe hundreds of lawsuits.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


NRA Member
SAF Member
C&R License Holder