Anti-gunners rants and lies about 148

[Tvandermyde]

So the gun hating Illinois Campaign Against Gun Violence has posted a couple of paper against RTC and HB148.

 

I posted them below.

 

seems that have a hard time telling the truth since the State Police are nuetral, and the Chiefs are in Support.

 

read the rest and chcuckle as you can see they are on the run and fearful of the final outcome.

policy8.pdf

CCW_Fact_Sheet.pdf

[pyre400]

So the gun hating Illinois Campaign Against Gun Violence has posted a couple of paper against RTC and HB148.

 

I posted them below.

 

seems that have a hard time telling the truth since the State Police are nuetral, and the Chiefs are in Support.

 

read the rest and chcuckle as you can see they are on the run and fearful of the final outcome.

 

Just noticed this too. Their strategy is to stall - this is that gurgling sound you hear when the tub is almost empty. Music to my ears.

[GlockShooter]

In a recent poll of Illinois voters, two of three Illinois voters (65%) were opposed to

allowing individuals to carry loaded, concealed weapons. Of the voters opposed to CCW, most (87%)

were strongly opposed.

 

Gee....I wonder where that poll what taken?

[Lou]

They sound desperate to say the least. Walsh can't even get his phone number right much less his facts. One place it's a 703 AC and one place its 773.

[mstrat]

They keep dragging this "CCW holders killed 286 people" statistic around. What they're failing to do is put it into perspective.

 

As the GunFacts book did, if you do the math:

 

(286 killings by ccw holders) / (num ccw holders)

vs.

(num killings by NON-ccw holders) / (num non-ccw holders)

 

You find that people with concealed carry permits are between 6 and 15 times LESS likely to commit such a violent crime than people without permits .

[mstrat]

Also, it's hilarious that they claim " In a 2011 poll of Illinois voters, two of three Illinois voters (65%) were opposed to allowing individuals to carry loaded, concealed weapons. Of the voters opposed to CCW, most (87%) were strongly opposed.3"... and cite a survey the conducted themselves.

 

A Joyce-funded survey that shows opposition to CCW?! *Gasp*, who'da thunk it.

[race2c]

In the opposition it seems like they are going for more of the emotional appeal...its for the children...

 

I am all for saving the children, e.g. only 23 here so still sort of a child, but come on.

 

Cam

[pyre400]

In the opposition it seems like they are going for more of the emotional appeal...its for the children...

 

I am all for saving the children, e.g. only 23 here so still sort of a child, but come on.

 

Cam

 

Actually, in that ABC Sunday clip, he almost said 300 "children" but then caught himself.

[race2c]

We can ALL sympathize on not wanting to hurt children, but the only way that you can get across facts is playing emotions. Come on.

 

At least the use statistics that aren't flawed. Oh wait, anti-gun folks don't think logically what AM I THINKING....

 

Cam

[defaultdotxbe]

CCW permit holders murdered at least 286 private citizens.

we know this is a lie, as their numbers include 80-some suicides

[firepiper]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

 

I've read them elsewhere, but I'm not so tech saavy as to be able to find them myself....

[mstrat]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

Are you volunteering? :-p

 

I am all for saving the children, e.g. only 23 here so still sort of a child, but come on.

Another interesting note is that "children" includes anyone up to age 18. i.e., "children" killed by CCW holders includes criminal thugs and gangbangers.

There was a story on NPR about this not too long ago.

[mstrat]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

Are you volunteering? :-p

 

Actually, if anyone (Todd?) has the capacity and desire to distribute such a flyer to the people who are receiving this BS, let me know and I will happily make one (professional-looking, with citations).

[Federal Farmer]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

Are you volunteering? :-p

 

Actually, if anyone (Todd?) has the capacity and desire to distribute such a flyer to the people who are receiving this BS, let me know and I will happily make one (professional-looking, with citations).

 

I think Todd is creating a position paper/talking points for HB0148, so I'm guessing that will address these lies and distortions.

[Lou]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

 

I've read them elsewhere, but I'm not so tech saavy as to be able to find them myself....

 

 

How's this?

The numbers used by the Violence Prevention Center in their biased study of killings by holders of concealed carry permits are deceiving and do not stand up to scrutiny. Some examples are:

• One case sited was a 2008 strangulation in Florida committed by a man who did have a carry permit. How can a strangling be blamed on a concealed carry permit?

• Many of the shootings cited took place in the permit holders home where you don’t need a concealed permit to keep a gun.

• In one 2008 Minnesota case cited the killer stated he had a concealed carry permit when he called the police to report he had shot someone. The official police report of the incident noted that not only did the killer not have a permit, he had never even applied for one.

• One case cited is the Tuscon, Arizona mass shooting by Jared Loughner involving Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Mr. Loughner did not have a concealed carry permit but it was included anyway because Arizona recently passed a law that one is not required. If they have to stoop so low to call this a shooting by a concealed carry permit holder then every shooting in Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming fits into their desperate attempt to prove a false theory.

• The Violence Prevention Center includes cases that are still pending in court even though the shooting could prove to be justified at trial.

• The so-called study double counts some shootings to inflate the numbers. The same cases are shown in different categories to make it seem like there are more instances that there really are. As an example the Tucson AZ shooting is counted the “Total People Killed” and in “Mass Shootings” categories.

 

There are an estimated 6,000,000 concealed carry permits holders in the United States. Even if the VPC did not stretch the truth and all of the shootings cited were actually valid, less the 297 deaths come out to .005% of permit holders shooting over the past four years. This means that 99.995% of permit holders are law abiding citizens. The study also does not even attempt to address the number of times a concealed carry permit holder used a defensive firearm to save his life of that of another

[Tvandermyde]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

Are you volunteering? :-p

 

Actually, if anyone (Todd?) has the capacity and desire to distribute such a flyer to the people who are receiving this BS, let me know and I will happily make one (professional-looking, with citations).

 

have at it and let me see what you got. if its better than what i can do i'll use it

[defaultdotxbe]

• The Violence Prevention Center includes cases that are still pending in court even though the shooting could prove to be justified at trial.

not only that, they continue to count them even after the charges are dropped or the killing ruled to be justified

[soundguy]

They keep dragging this "CCW holders killed 286 people" statistic around. What they're failing to do is put it into perspective.

 

As the GunFacts book did, if you do the math:

 

(286 killings by ccw holders) / (num ccw holders)

vs.

(num killings by NON-ccw holders) / (num non-ccw holders)

 

You find that people with concealed carry permits are between 6 and 15 times LESS likely to commit such a violent crime than people without permits .

 

Subtracting from the reported numbers the solo suicides (59) completed by CCW holders, which may not have been suicide with a gun;

 

238 deaths involving 146 CCW holders.

 

Some (27) of those 238 deaths were suicides after committing murder. Some (6) "CCW killers" were acquitted. Some of the the incidents were mass murders, including that fellow in Tucson early this year. There are 72 incidents (from a total of 205) reported as pending. Some of those shooters will likely be acquitted or dismissed.

[templar223]

So the gun hating Illinois Campaign Against Gun Violence has posted a couple of paper against RTC and HB148.

 

I posted them below.

 

seems that have a hard time telling the truth since the State Police are nuetral, and the Chiefs are in Support.

 

read the rest and chcuckle as you can see they are on the run and fearful of the final outcome.

 

 

Just glancing at it, I see a couple of egregious errors that should call it all into question for an unbiased third-party...

 

When they claim IACOP and ISP are opposed and we all know IACOP is in favor and ISP are neutral....

 

John

[Bob1911]

Looks to me like they (VPC) are attempting to do to the word "murder" what they have been doing to "assault weapons," "assault clips" etc.

 

I agree that we need to call them out and publicize this whenever is appropriate.

[Sigma]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

 

I've read them elsewhere, but I'm not so tech saavy as to be able to find them myself....

 

 

How's this?

The numbers used by the Violence Prevention Center in their biased study of killings by holders of concealed carry permits are deceiving and do not stand up to scrutiny. Some examples are:

• One case sited was a 2008 strangulation in Florida committed by a man who did have a carry permit. How can a strangling be blamed on a concealed carry permit?

• Many of the shootings cited took place in the permit holders home where you don’t need a concealed permit to keep a gun.

• In one 2008 Minnesota case cited the killer stated he had a concealed carry permit when he called the police to report he had shot someone. The official police report of the incident noted that not only did the killer not have a permit, he had never even applied for one.

• One case cited is the Tuscon, Arizona mass shooting by Jared Loughner involving Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Mr. Loughner did not have a concealed carry permit but it was included anyway because Arizona recently passed a law that one is not required. If they have to stoop so low to call this a shooting by a concealed carry permit holder then every shooting in Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming fits into their desperate attempt to prove a false theory.

• The Violence Prevention Center includes cases that are still pending in court even though the shooting could prove to be justified at trial.

• The so-called study double counts some shootings to inflate the numbers. The same cases are shown in different categories to make it seem like there are more instances that there really are. As an example the Tucson AZ shooting is counted the “Total People Killed” and in “Mass Shootings” categories.

 

There are an estimated 6,000,000 concealed carry permits holders in the United States. Even if the VPC did not stretch the truth and all of the shootings cited were actually valid, less the 297 deaths come out to .005% of permit holders shooting over the past four years. This means that 99.995% of permit holders are law abiding citizens. The study also does not even attempt to address the number of times a concealed carry permit holder used a defensive firearm to save his life of that of another

 

I sent this to my rep. Man wouldn't it be nice if the ISP would just change from neutral

[sirflyguy]

I sent this to my rep. Man wouldn't it be nice if the ISP would just change from neutral

Since the director is appointed by the governor, I doubt this will happen. It is a nice thought, though!

[race2c]

Can someone develop a point by point reply to these releases?

Are you volunteering? :-p

 

I am all for saving the children, e.g. only 23 here so still sort of a child, but come on.

Another interesting note is that "children" includes anyone up to age 18. i.e., "children" killed by CCW holders includes criminal thugs and gangbangers.

There was a story on NPR about this not too long ago.

 

I don't listen to NPR, so thanks for that information. Did they note any of this information in their article?

 

Cam

[firepiper]

Lou, that's just the kind of thing I was looking for.

 

I've been a long time believer in concealed carry, but I have become significantly more active latey.

 

I've been able to view a ton of information and stats between this forum and a couple others I frequent.

 

However, I have not been too good at putting all the talking points into one convenient place for reference.

[Lou]

Lou, that's just the kind of thing I was looking for.

 

I've been a long time believer in concealed carry, but I have become significantly more active latey.

 

I've been able to view a ton of information and stats between this forum and a couple others I frequent.

 

However, I have not been too good at putting all the talking points into one convenient place for reference.

 

 

Thanks. That was actually a part of a letter to the editor that the Libune didn't publish. I did a bit of research and there are quite a few people who have picked their so-called study apart.