laststate2havecarry Posted June 4, 2012 at 03:50 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 03:50 AM So when do things start happening on the Shephard Moore case at the 7th Circuit level? I am unaware of where things go from here and when. Can anyone enlighten me on what is expected to happen and when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:24 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:24 AM Friday June 8 th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Peterson Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:30 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:30 AM A 3 Judge Panel of the 7th Circuit Court of appeals will be hearing the Shepard/Moore case this Friday. Under the PI schedule that's in the 7th Circuit, the "April 2012 sitting" of the court, the last day of that is August 8th, which is why I keep saying that date. Then, the loser of either case has the option to appeal directly to the US Supreme Court with a cert petition. If they accept the cert, which is considered a certainty if the we lose (and less so if the state loses and cert petitions), we'll have a decision by 6/24/2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:36 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:36 AM · Hidden by Buzzard, June 4, 2012 at 04:37 AM - No reason given Hidden by Buzzard, June 4, 2012 at 04:37 AM - No reason given The oral arguments for the Shephard and Moore case will be heard Friday, June 8, and a ruling can be expected sometime in August. Link to comment
Howard Roark Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:44 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:44 AM Gray, are you going to Buca Di Beppo's restaurant in Lombard, Illannoy on Friday nite? Would be nice to have you join us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Peterson Posted June 4, 2012 at 05:28 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 05:28 AM Gray, are you going to Buca Di Beppo's restaurant in Lombard, Illannoy on Friday nite? Would be nice to have you join us. 'fraid not. I live in Seattle metro area so I can't attend. If I had Friday off, I would have flown out to Chicago myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiburbian Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:17 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:17 AM To save me the trouble of looking it up, can someone tell me where the oral arguments will be held and what time? Is the public allowed to attend? To me it is worth taking a day off of work to experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:50 AM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 11:50 AM There are two good scenarios that I see. 1. We lose, we appeal, and SCOTUS takes the case. 2. We win, the state appeals, and SCOTUS takes the case. Worst case. We win, but only on open carry and the state does not appeal. If I were the other side and we were to win only on OC, I might well accept that and than continue to block LTC, just out of spite if nothing else. We would still not be legally able to carry in a car, or any public space. And there is no guarantee that whatever limited OC movement might come about would change the dynamic much. The more I think about it the more I think that this is a likely situation. SCOTUS has been fairly clear that concealed carry has a lower degree of protection (if any) than does OC. I still think a few years down the road after a decision that we get LTC anyway, just from momentum if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted June 4, 2012 at 01:28 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 01:28 PM Bob -- this is thebestand fastest case that could go to SCOTUS. However, we could win the appeal, I think they will punt and not give us a direct win. They could then remand the case to the lower cour like Ezell and we get bogged down in the district court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
output Posted June 4, 2012 at 01:33 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 01:33 PM They could then remand the case to the lower cour like Ezell and we get bogged down in the district court. I hope that doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielm60660 Posted June 4, 2012 at 01:42 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 01:42 PM Todd, what would we consider a punt? How much of a non-decision decision could they make out of the very simple question we are asking?DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted June 4, 2012 at 02:25 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 02:25 PM Something akin to we don't have enough guidance on the issue and if the Supremes say the right goes beyond the home then they need to say so more clearly. Somehting akin to the 4th district ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skottieusa Posted June 4, 2012 at 02:56 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 02:56 PM Exactly what I expect since both lower courts said this. They complained the supreme court wasn't specific enough or at least plain enough in its language in Heller. Good, SCOTUS will be very clear this time on this very specific issue (2nd amendment extends past your doorstep just like speech, religion, pursuit of happiness, etc) and everyone in the U.S. will benefit. Just like Heller and McDonald. The ban ends in a year or less!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:06 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:06 PM Exactly what I expect since both lower courts said this. They complained the supreme court wasn't specific enough or at least plain enough in its language in Heller. Good, SCOTUS will be very clear this time on this very specific issue (2nd amendment extends past your doorstep just like speech, religion, pursuit of happiness, etc) and everyone in the U.S. will benefit. Just like Heller and McDonald. The ban ends in a year or less!! This scenario is why it's important we get Obama the heck out of the oval office. He will nominate another Sotomayor or Kagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrat Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:11 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:11 PM Is there a possibility that this will be remanded without an order for injunction?i.e. Can the 7th send it back down and set us back a few more years by requiring another trial or whatever (similar to what happened in Wilson) ? On a side-note, how can these courts cop out with regard to ruling on the constitutionality of legislation? It's cowardly."Big daddy SCOTUS didn't tell us the answer, so we don't know." Pathetic. The defense of our liberties in this country on nearly every front has faltered, and nearly collapse. We're a nation of cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbaltzx Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:42 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 04:42 PM To save me the trouble of looking it up, can someone tell me where the oral arguments will be held and what time? Is the public allowed to attend? To me it is worth taking a day off of work to experience. I would like to attend the arguments: What time on Friday? Same building as the McDonald orals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted June 4, 2012 at 05:04 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 05:04 PM A 3 Judge Panel of the 7th Circuit Court of appeals will be hearing the Shepard/Moore case this Friday. Under the PI schedule that's in the 7th Circuit, the "April 2012 sitting" of the court, the last day of that is August 8th, which is why I keep saying that date. Then, the loser of either case has the option to appeal directly to the US Supreme Court with a cert petition. If they accept the cert, which is considered a certainty if the we lose (and less so if the state loses and cert petitions), we'll have a decision by 6/24/2013. Thank you Gray, for one of the clearest explanations of the possible series of events we could expect, that I have read thus far. It would then seem, that if Obama does win re-election, that there wouldn't be enough time for a newly seated SCOTUS justice to be hearing the case. Do you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted June 4, 2012 at 09:37 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 09:37 PM So when do things start happening on the Shephard Moore case at the 7th Circuit level? I am unaware of where things go from here and when. Can anyone enlighten me on what is expected to happen and when? If anyone is interested in a "one thread stop" for this issue ... please see here: http://illinoiscarry...60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:10 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:10 PM Bob -- this is thebestand fastest case that could go to SCOTUS. However, we could win the appeal, I think they will punt and not give us a direct win. They could then remand the case to the lower cour like Ezell and we get bogged down in the district court.I don't disagree with you on any of that. Predicting what any court will do with a hot button type issue like this is fraught with great uncertainty. No one knows until there is a ruling. And even then there is no certainty as to what the ruling means in any practical way. I only mentioned what I thought were the two best things that could happen and the worst. Getting sent back is somewhere between best and worst as far as I am concerned. People seem to forget what actually happened to date in DC after Heller and in Chicago after McDonald. While things improved in a limited way, there are still 5 or 10 court cases to go before they are really settled. It is still restricted enough in both places that very few people can afford the time and expense to go through the roadblocks deliberately put up by those cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:15 PM Share Posted June 4, 2012 at 10:15 PM Exactly what I expect since both lower courts said this. They complained the supreme court wasn't specific enough or at least plain enough in its language in Heller. Good, SCOTUS will be very clear this time on this very specific issue (2nd amendment extends past your doorstep just like speech, religion, pursuit of happiness, etc) and everyone in the U.S. will benefit. Just like Heller and McDonald. The ban ends in a year or less!! I would like to think so as well. but, what makes you think there will be 5 votes on the current SCOTUS to make that happen? It is pretty obvious to us what way they should rule, but may not be so obvious to them. I could see a 5/4 split against us this time. I would not like it, but it is not outside the realm of reasonably possible things that could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 7, 2012 at 01:51 PM Share Posted June 7, 2012 at 01:51 PM Obama - election: Yes. This next presidential election is critical for SCOTUS and our second amendment rights. 5-4 split. Yes. I don't think we can assume it would go our way. I would hope it would based upon Heller and McDonald; but I worry that the outcome isn't assurred otherwise those rulings might have been stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt555gs Posted June 7, 2012 at 03:14 PM Share Posted June 7, 2012 at 03:14 PM I think our opponents are hoping we don't catch on to the newest attack that the Second Amendment can be limited to "inside the home". I do not think this was a fluke, but a carefully laid out strategy. Why not? The first and forth amendments have mostly been limited there. Why not the Second. I think this tactic comes from "on high" and has been passed down to the Federal judiciary throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylok Posted June 7, 2012 at 05:21 PM Share Posted June 7, 2012 at 05:21 PM I think our opponents are hoping we don't catch on to the newest attack that the Second Amendment can be limited to "inside the home". I do not think this was a fluke, but a carefully laid out strategy. Why not? The first and forth amendments have mostly been limited there. Why not the Second. I think this tactic comes from "on high" and has been passed down to the Federal judiciary throughout. The 3rd and 4th are limited to the home because the word home is actually in the amendment whereas in the 2nd it does not appear thus it is not limited to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee n. field Posted June 7, 2012 at 05:42 PM Share Posted June 7, 2012 at 05:42 PM Worst case. We win, but only on open carry and the state does not appeal. If I were the other side and we were to win only on OC, I might well accept that and than continue to block LTC, just out of spite if nothing else. We would still not be legally able to carry in a car, or any public space. And there is no guarantee that whatever limited OC movement might come about would change the dynamic much. The more I think about it the more I think that this is a likely situation. SCOTUS has been fairly clear that concealed carry has a lower degree of protection (if any) than does OC. That's OK. That's what happened in Ohio and Wisconsin. Open carry is decreed OK, and people actually start to open carry. Teh Panics!, and suddenly concealed doesn't seem so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted June 7, 2012 at 07:16 PM Share Posted June 7, 2012 at 07:16 PM Woo Hoo !!! I can't wait until tomorrow! This is almost as exiting as waiting for SHOTshow 2012... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiburbian Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:10 PM Share Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:10 PM On the train now. Anyplace nearby you all want to meet for breakfast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:23 PM Share Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:23 PM I just don't see an Illinois-based court ruling in our favor. But have high hopes for the appeal... Hopefully Obama won't have the opportunity to remake the court before it is heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:32 PM Share Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:32 PM I just don't see an Illinois-based court ruling in our favor. You don't see it because the case hasn't even been argued yet! Today sometime after 0900! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiburbian Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:33 PM Share Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:33 PM I will hang out near Ogilvie till about 0800. After that I am going to Lou Mitchels on Jackson. Just South west of Ogilvie. Good diner, fast service (usually). South of Union and Ogilvie to Jackson. Head West. (right) 219 S Dearborn If there are any other preferences let me know. Edit: Due to abolts comment, heading directly to court building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:39 PM Share Posted June 8, 2012 at 12:39 PM Does anyone know whether BOTH Alan Gura (Moore) and Charles Cooper (Shepard) will present arguments? I kind of expect that, because they each filed briefs. Remember Shepard was a case supported by NRA and ISRA. Moore was a case supported by SAF and Illinois Carry. And from reading both of "our" briefs ... it seems clear they were working together on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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